| Author | Message | |||
     Hughlysses |
I don't see this at EBR.com yet, but the South Carolina dealer just posted it to his Facebook page.  | |||
| Reepicheep |
Wow. That's a lot of bike for $15k. | |||
| Dmhines |
And I have seen some Dealers discount and extra $1000 off those prices so I would think getting one for $13,995 would not be hard ... I still owe more than that on the RX I bought last year ...  I'm having 1125 50% off MSRP FlashBacks!! | |||
| Buelliedan |
Just an FYI, these are 2014 models not 2015. | |||
| Court |
So . . . . . what's the consensus? Would you purchase a 2014 1190 for $13,995 or would you buy a 2015 for $18,995? I confess . . . more than anything I am confused but I'm staying clear of some of this. If I question the sales figures I am accused of "having a beef". But when Badwebbers report dealers sending inventory back to the factory it doesn't raise an eyebrow, I was saddened to hear that the local dealer . . one of the largest sport-bike dealers in the nation serving our SMSA with 18,000,000 folks has dropped EBR. I'm going to have to look . . what are the differences between the 2014 and the 2015? | |||
| Pmjolly |
Court, the only difference I am aware of is a lighter action clutch with less effort required on the 2015. Well, that and possibly new color options. There are many very minor improvements that have been made along the way as the 2014's have been built. One example is a retainer for the rear brake master cylinder cap that likes to come loose and fall off. I purchased the first red one I found for sale last April. Mine does not have the retainer. Mine is the one responsible for a revision of the front brake scoop that should be released soon. Mine came loose and contacted the front wheel. The new design is supposed to prevent this. | |||
| Classax |
Not every dealer is in a market that will support brisk on even single sales of a new brand. By the time taxes and title were paid I paid over 20K for my RX. I have been riding it since March of 2014. Here in Texas you can rent one for $150 a day. That's be in the neighborhood of $4500. Ask me if I'd have rather not ridden the bike and saved the $5K and I will tell you I'd rather be able to ride. I hope someone gets a great deal on a great bike. I'm not going shed a tear about the resale value of a bike I never had any intentions of selling. | |||
| Classax |
Oops I stand corrected the RX is $199 a day! | |||
| Hughlysses |
I'm going to have to look . . what are the differences between the 2014 and the 2015? Court- the only thing that's been stated in print is the hydraulic clutch has been revised on the 2015's to reduce the effort. I believe there's an accessory kit available for the 2014's to do this mod, and it's only something like ~$200. | |||
| Steveford |
The few reviews I've read have all been very positive - only the heavy clutch action and gizmo box location on the bars have been criticized. At the $14-15,000 level I think they'd sell well. $19,000 puts it into the nice to dream about but not realistic for most category. | |||
| Sparky |
The dealer in Lomita, So Cal is still offering the $2k discount on their 2 remaining SX's.  They also have a Carbon Edition 1190RS for sale.  | |||
| Ron_luning |
The pricing is wrong. Is this a lot of bike for $15k? No, not these days it isn't. Has anyone seen the newest offerings from BMW/Arilia in the naked category, or the new R1? Compare them and then compare the prices. I'm not trying to knock the EBR bikes in any way for what they are, but when you line them up next to the competition they lose on value every time. Big HP bikes sell in small numbers, big HP bikes that are overpriced do not sell. Ignore Ducati...those customers are buying into an established lifestyle brand. | |||
| Court |
>>>>>Ignore Ducati...those customers are buying into an established lifestyle brand. That's an accurate statement.
But . . . and it's my own personal opinion . . having watch Buell sales and worked with Buell dealers for the better part of 30 years . . . . I have some concerns about the pricing and promotion model. I'm not sure, again this is my PERSONAL guess, that they got the pricing where it should, needed, to be at the outset. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. Apparent sales numbers seem to indicate the concern the dealers and insiders I've spoken to echo. While a "discount" program . . . in which the factory reimburses the dealer for the diminished sales cost is one way. But . . . depending in timing and circumstances . . . can introduce some concerns. If . . for example . . . I saw the current promotion which offers $4,000 discount from the price of a 2014 which is essentially identical to the 2015 . . . and I suspected (I'll refrain from using "knew" since folks tend, understandably to assure me that the 2014's sold like hotcakes) there was more than sufficient remaining 2014 inventory . . . I'd do one of several things. 1) Jump on the deal for the 2014 and haggle with the dealer to provide the upgraded clutch. (HINT: Any dealers who won't concede a $250 "gimme" should be checked off your list anyway) 2) I'd offer the dealer the same $4,000 off the 2015 under the assumption, almost certain to come to pass, that the same discounts will be applied to the 2015 later in the year. What I would NOT do . . . .and can't see any potential customer doing . . would be to pay full boot for a product nearly certain to have a 20% price decrease within the next 10 months. It's a tough pickle to be in at this time. The market is excellent. Car sales were up beyond wildest expectations over the past several months and folks are spending, on pricey transportation, like they haven't in many years. It renders the "$18,000 bikes don't sell because of the economy" . . that's pure bullshit at this point. The competition is fierce and getting fiercer. With Ducati, as of April 2012, being owned by Audi . . they are for the first time, in a long time, in a position to grow and bring new product to the market. The spent a long time sharing ownership with Burger King and being tossed around the ADR market like a financial toy. I'm wondering . . . to the extent that Badweb may not represent the EBR target market but may still be the source of good market data . . . how those of you who are on the fence are thinking? It will be interesting to watch. I'd have, personally, tried pursuing another strategy to bolster sales but the quick and easy way always appears to be simply lowering the price. | |||
| Finedaddy1 |
I'm on the fence. My thinking is the pricing is a step in the right direction. My test ride of the SX was more than positive, just a fantastic bike. The reason for being on the fence is because of bikes like the Yamaha FJ-09 (I'm not a chain man though, but @ this price I could be) and the BMW R1200RS. For a little more $$ the BMW offers EVERYTHING I desire in a sport touring bike with one he'll of a warranty to boot. Give me an 1190ST with belt drive, wind protection, heated grips, and luggage. | |||
| Ak_addict |
I hope the promo helps sales but I think they are still casting to small a net. Both are great bikes but let's face it the SX is just a RX with a high bar kit and a couple fairings removed, not exactly a home run from a company that is supposed to be primarily an engineering firm. How hard would it be to engineer a new sub-frame that would allow for a seat and peg placement that would allow comfortable two-up riding with a passenger? How about some sport touring accessories? With the low production numbers they can't rely on the aftermarket, take a look at the aftermarket they don't list anything for the EBR. I know aftermarket support lags behind any new model, even those from established manufacturers but if EBR want to gain market share they need to do things a little different (better) then established manufacturers. | |||
| Crusty |
 +1 I know that you guys at the Factory are reading this. Wake up and smell the coffee! | |||
| Northernyankee |
My feeling tend to echo what Court has said, IMO EBR shouldn't be trying to compete with the large brands right now. They need to embrace being a Boutique Brand right now and build up their brand loyalty and create a fan base much like Ducati and as much as I hate to say it Harley. If they try to compete directly with the likes of the "Big 4" and to a lesser degree the Euro Brands like Triumph & KTM, then they are going to lose. These brands have far more money and a more diversified range of offerings, having 2 or 3 bikes all built on the same basic chassis hasn't shown to be a long term winner unless they can foster loyal base of customers that will "sell" the bikes for them. I like that they are using racing to promote the brand but until they start showing top 10 finishes that won't truly work with people aren't fans from the pre-EBR days. Time will tell I guess. | |||
| Classax |
I think the bikes are priced correctly at 17K for what you get, (- quickshifter!!!) The hardware if I am honest has had quality control issues on multiple fronts. Still its an easy bike to ride fast and delivers on performance. Where EBR is falling woefully short is customer experience. Their customer service has been good but the customer experience has not. If you compare EBR to any other MFG you find that they just don't seem to be ready for the market or marketing. Heck even the web presence is less capable in comparison to other brands. Take a look a the EBR boards and forums and you don't see support from STG or other RidersDiscount like you do for the R1 or Ducati. In fact without AF1 racing most of us wouldn't have access to simple things like torque specs. EBR and Bimota are roughly the same size companies and roughly the same market share. Bimota couldn't make or sell enough bikes to homologate in WSBK, EBR made the machines but is having a devil of a time selling them. Worse yet they aren't making it easy to become or remain a customer. and this is from someone who flat LOVES the bike! | |||
| Hughlysses |
It's hard to see what's happened with EBR. My impression was they had some great plans for the brand prior to the introduction of the 1190RX. Since then, selling these motorcycles has shifted to the back burner. Check out this dealer FAQ sheet that I found on-line around 2013. Note all the things they said they were going to do to help generate sales for their dealers. If I was a dealer that had taken on the brand based on this document, I think I'd be a little pissed.
I keep hoping they're going to eventually take the wraps off some super marketing campaign. We sure haven't seen that yet. | |||
| Buellerxt |
I realize the RX isn't selling and that 'pricing' has soft considerations as well as solid ones but taking the MSRP's at face value why it there a $2,000. difference? I see that both can be had now for $14,995 but besides the higher handlebars and less fairing are there any other differences? $2,000. worth? Thanks. | |||
| Dmhines |
I agree the price difference didn't make much sense. The Firebolts and Lightnings were priced very similarly if I recall. So were the R and CR's. Although the RX does have more plastic than the previous R's. (Message edited by dmhines on January 13, 2015) | |||
| Court |
Product pricing is only VERY loosely related to the cost of materials that go into the product. It has much more to do with sales and market penetration strategy. Think of it . . . . a $1,000 difference . . . on a bike you are making 100 of . . is $100,000. Roughly 3.23 days of factory payroll . . . .or less than 2% of the racing budget. And . . . for those fluent in elasticity of demand . . . what if you lower the price $1,000 and increase sales by 78 units? My GUESS is that there were strong opinions about the lower pricing, during the launch of the RX, that were overridden. . . . I suspect the $2,000 lower price reflects more support, based on soft sales, for their position on the MSRP. When I look at those dealer FAQs . . it's comforting to know where the 1190RS inventory went. I see each dealer is REQUIRED to have one of the RS models and 5 each of the RX and SX. That brings us closer to an answer on the "where are they going?? conundrum. I've been to 9 dealers and have not seen either an RS or more than 1 or 2 SX/RX . . . so I am not sure if this "requirement" is a requirement or a suggestion. | |||
| Hughlysses |
Court- I'm thinking that document is "null & void". The date on it is 2012. That document implies there was going to be a LOT of sales promotion coming out of EBR and it sure doesn't seem that's happened. At least a couple of dealer magazine articles from that time (which were posted on the EBR dealer website) stated that EBR would release all 3 new models in 2013 (sport bike, naked bike, and adventure bike), and that did not happen. | |||
| Classax |
EBR's main advertising and marketing appears to be Facebook. Unfortunately what I think we are seeing is the fact that EBR is and engineering company that also built 2000 or so motorcycles that would have been world beaters in 2011. In 2014 in stomps all but the very latest crop of newly designed machines. The challenges they face; pricing against the Big 4, lack of name recognition, a commitment to mechanical instead of electronic performance solutions in a market that craves electronics, lack of distribution network, lack of aftermarket support, lack of dealer knowledge, and aversion by buyers to purchase first year releases. Add to that a poor showing in WSBK, quality control issues on the rotors, velocity stacks, ECU's, rear brake res covers, torque specs and lack of dealer tech training. Worse yet a total lack of head to head shoot outs due to little movement in the liter bike market amongst media outlets for almost no press. The one and only shootout proved it was a virtual tie with the 1199 which places a perennial 2nd to the HP4 in the US and RSV4 in the UK. Imagine what sales would have done had the RX placed second or third in a head to head shootout against the big 4 and the Euro 3. Serious growing pains. I almost wish they didn't have to build so many for WSBK. That artificially high number of machines basically has flooded the market with bikes that have no hope of finding a home. Really very sad because the bike ROCKS! | |||
| Buelliedan |
Purchasing an 1190 RS is not a requirement for EBR dealers.. I bought one but not because I had to. I bought it because it is the most incredible bike I have ever ridden. (Message edited by buelliedan on January 13, 2015) | |||
| Ducbsa |
How is the RS superior to an RX? | |||
| Dmhines |
I think the RS is lighter .. that's about it. I prefer the RX mirrors and Dash. | |||
| Buelliedan |
the RS is basically a full race bike with lights with things like full Ohlins TTX suspension components, all carbon fiber bodywork, custom crankshaft with Carillo rods, Suter slipper clutch, etc. | |||
| Classax |
^^^^ RS makes less power without the race ECU and full exhaust than the RX but has full Ohlins NO TRACTION CONTROL and is close to 40lbs lighter due to having carbon fiber everything that isn't a metal alloy. The RX makes a bit more power, has better headlights and traction control we tend not to use. The RX also cost way less! | |||
| Phelan |
The carbon fiber alone on the RS costs more than the RX. The RS is a beautiful machine- one that I would prefer solely on looks- but the RX is the bike I'd get if I could afford it. | |||
| Ljm |
All of the things posted above are true differences. With the ECM and pipe, more power and it is all RIGHT THERE given the lower weight. You get what you pay for with the suspension and clutch. They are different and higher quality/performance. The carbon is beautiful. How beautiful can be measured by the number of people who take pictures of it when it stops somewhere (lots of them). That being said, the RX manages heat better, more comfortable seat, ergos slightly better for every day use. It is a great bike all around. SX differences are obvious with no plastics in front of you and a little more upright (note: you are not straight up and down like a dirt bike). Otherwise, identical. Fantastic bikes, and good for the long run. Here is a puzzle to me, and posted it on the 1190 Owner's Page: The SX is the most like the SCG of any other model I have ridden either before or since including tubers, other XB's, and the CR. SCG's are hard to come by now, and getting long in the tooth. It would seem to me that the crowd that wants them would look at the SX, but as near as I can tell, it is a whole new group of people. Most Buell faithful are not jumping over to EBR, and maybe that directs where EBR is marketing? (Message edited by ljm on January 13, 2015) | |||
| J2blue |
Unfortunately I don't represent the target market, though I wish I did. Once my balance sheet has enough surplus to cover a newer 4 wheel vehicle then I can consider buying a motorcycle. Until then it doesn't matter if the MSRP is $500.00 or $15,000.00. I know I would jump on that current pricing and potential financing if I were already where I want to be. | |||
| Court |
Carbon Fiber added $4,000 . . . .  And . .of course . . . you needed to remember to check it on your order form.  There were a number done in various colors and a number sold, in lots, to collectors to hold. | |||
| Phelan |
I'm talking price to buy the Carbon pieces separately, I.E. If someone wanted to make a carbon RX. Not necessarily what they cost EBR to build them. Dan looked it up and I believe all the carbon pieces for the RS add up to about $18,000. | |||
| Court |
You learn something everyday . . . . I did not realize the EBR 1190RS had Carillo Rods . . . . and so I started calling and looking about . . . all I can find is
So they MUST be Carillo, eh? But . . I wonder why not a single magazine test has mentioned it? Suppose it's a licensing thing by Carillo? | |||
| Cravacor |
Why not offer the $4k rebate on the SX? That plus the dealer coming off his holdback a bit plus $4k in trade for my'09 CR plus cheap financing and I'd pick up a white one this weekend. | |||
| Fast1075 |
Carrillo is certainly not the only company with pieces in the RS engine. The list of vendors is a who's who of performance aftermarket suppliers. In typical fashion, it is all hush hush. EBR certainly didn't build their own pistons, camshafts, valve springs, valves, etc, etc. | |||
| Ironhead1977 |
I feel if EBR would redirect there efforts on building Adventure style motorcycles, the sales would turn around. In my area I am seeing numerous new ones from Honda and Kawasaki. I am as much pro EBR as the next guy, but until they build a product for us older in life guys, I will have to stay on the porch and watch. | |||
| Whistler |
Didn't a new VP Sales come on board after many dealers were already signed up but prior to RX production? Maybe the dealer document was modified during or after that time frame? From this forum I have heard that EBR has an ownership partner (Hero) who is also a premier Race Sponsor and an important engineering client. Perhaps that has something to do with corporate priorities on many levels including EBR motorcycle design, production, marketing, and sales? Doesn't the corporate partnership have goals that direct EBR's efforts on all fronts? I use the word partnership since it has been reported that Hero used cash to buy into a percentage of ownership. Cash would seem to be a necessary and highly valued ingredient to any company. Is EBR primarily an engineering firm and if so is there any reason to think that status has changed since RX and SX production? How does the US fit into the short and long term plans and goals of the corporate partnership? Is the US its main concern and point of concentration at this time? | |||
| Desertdan |
I agree with Ironhead , in the San Diego/La county areas adventure touring / sports touring bikes are the second most popular bikes after Harleys , out in the west people ride year round , me included , and You can't go for a ride without seeing the Beemers/KTM Adventure bikes , Buell needs to capitalize on this market | |||
| Hughlysses |
The flyer at the top of this page is now a pop-up at EBR.com. | |||
| Dynasport |
I had such high hopes that an EBR would be the replacement for my XB12XT in a couple of years when I plan to buy a new bike. I love my XT and I love the tenacity of EB. But to me this is looking less and less likely. EBR seems to have done some things really well, but others not so well. They can't compete in marketing and the number of people familiar with them and in the market for a bike and able to buy one seems to be really small. On top of all that, they don't make a bike in the XT vein to replace the one I have. I have hoped the AX would be that bike, but who knows what it will be like, when it will be released, what it will cost, or even if will ever actually make it to market? I haven't totally given up hope, but I am discouraged. | |||
| Mjohnson |
"Unfortunately what I think we are seeing is the fact that EBR is and engineering company that also built 2000 or so motorcycles that would have been world beaters in 2011. In 2014 in stomps all but the very latest crop of newly designed machines. " ^ I have to agree. I think I am the prime demographic and waited for the SX to come out so I could make a purchase. I didn't see enough difference (not the difference I expected to see) in the SX compared to the RX. Price was not a factor at all. I would have paid more than msrp for the bike I imagined. The bike I wanted (Typhon.) I ended up buying an 09 scg because I like it aesthetically. I'm still ready to make a purchase and I want to support EBR. I expected more variation between models. I'm not an adventure rider, so maybe the next version of the SX? } | |||
| Crusty |
I didn't see enough difference (not the difference I expected to see) in the SX compared to the RX. Did you take one for a ride? I did a Demo ride on my birthday, and I found the SX to be a pure delight to ride. If I was a bit more solvent, I'd own one in a heartbeat. And I don't even want a Streetfighter. I want a Sport -Tourer. But I can see me putting a windshield on an SX and maybe some soft bags and hitting the road. I was that impressed with it. How much difference was there between a Firebolt and a Lightning? The fairing and handlebars? I think you might have sold yourself short if you didn't at least take an SX out for a Demo ride. Especially if your Ride Leader was like ours was. We went out for something like 45 minutes on back roads in western Massachusetts. The bike itself is its own greatest salesman. | |||
| Classax |
I don't get the Typhoon but not SX decisions. The Typhoon features classic bug eye headlights and clip-ons but is basically an SX. I assure you the SX head light may not have the classic look but it's worth its weight in confidence when it comes to actually needing to see at night. I admit the half fairing of the typhoon is nice but the fan arrangement of the SX/RX actually works much better. I could see 5 or 6 hundred bucks in Mods to get an SX to typhoon status. For all the issues these bikes are amazing to ride! Sport touring on the RX is not out of the question either as the ergos are all day comfy. A powerpbronze windscreen and some helibro bar risers, set of bags and you're there. | |||
| Mjohnson |
I did test ride one. Certainly not for a 45 min ride and it wasn't at a particularly spirited pace. I posted my impression here: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/713 493/748194.html?1420641886 If I wanted an upgrade to my 1125 the RX would be a serious contender at this price. Since i want a naked street fighter I am waiting for the MV Agusta Dragster RR to come out now before I make a purchase. I'm not a fan of its headlight either, but everything else on it is beautiful. | |||
| Hootowl |
Typhon. Damn autocorrect.  | |||
| Ljm |
The Typhon is a naked RS with bug eye headlights. That is not a user friendly around town bike, although given it's original purpose, is surprisingly rideable on a day to day basis. The SX however, is good at both ends of the spectrum and easy to ride. Crusty, I did throw the soft bags on the SX, stuffed them full of stuff and went out for a day. The only problem was clearance on the exhaust side and they ended up a little crooked. The old full sized Buell tail bag worked perfectly though. I got caught in a thundershower at about 50 degrees and got blasted. If I were really going to tour on it, I would look for an windshield to adapt. Other than that, I have sat on it for 5 hours with only gas stops, legs still worked at the end. My guess is we have identified why the EBR marketing plan doesn't target us former Buell riders specifically. (Message edited by ljm on January 15, 2015) | |||
| Classax |
http://blog.motorcycle.com/2015/01/15/manufacturer s/ducati/ducati-sold-record-45100-motorcycles-2014 / EBR must build a lifestyle and brand identification along with competitively priced, world class hardware if they are going to win market share from their closest competition. SX vs Monster 1200 is not even a close fight yet the Monster is selling quicker. SX vs 1290 KTM is an unfair but close fight and the KTM edges the EBR out via sheer CC's. They have to be better at marketing if this is going to be more than an experiment. | |||
| Budgolf |
Got a demo ride scheduled for tomorrow | |||
| Buelliedan |
"They have to be better at marketing if this is going to be more than an experiment." that is an accurate statement!! | |||
| Rodrob |
So they MUST be Carillo, eh? } The 1190RS has Carillo Rods, CP Pistons, and Del West Ti Valves. (Message edited by rodrob on January 16, 2015) | |||
| Fast1075 |
Shush Rob. That's supposed to be double top secret.  | |||
| Phelan |
That would make sense since CP and Carillo are essentially the same company now. | |||
| Sprintst |
I've been saying from the get-go that the market is very focused on electronics right now. I think Classax has some excellent observations, including the lack of a good finish in a shoot out. (did well against the Ducati, but needs to be in a comprehensive test) Still, so many Honda/Yamaha/Gixxah/Kawi koolaid drinkers that will probably never give an EBR a second glance (Message edited by sprintst on April 08, 2015) | |||
| Rodrob |
Shush Rob. That's supposed to be double top secret Really? Why would the fact that your motor has the best components available, built to your specs and exclusively for you, be a secret? I don't understand.  | |||
| Ljm |
I just want to see the demo truck schedule published. Sheesh. | |||
| Rodrob |
LOL | |||
| Hughlysses |
BTW, back on the original subject- the time period listed on the pop-up for the promotion ($4k/$2k discounts) is past (31 March) and the pop-up no longer shows at EBR.com. Does that mean the bikes are back up to full list price again? | |||
| Mike13 |
Nope. Pop up is still there but it's now called the spring clearance event and goes till July 30th. Same deal. I hope to be negotiating an 1190rx shortly. | |||
| Hughlysses |
Pop up wasn't there when I checked this morning; they must have revised it and put it back up. HOPEFULLY by July they'll have another model or two to get us excited about! | |||
| Mike13 |
Ok maybe its not a pop up but it is advertised on the front page with a link to the promo page. | |||
| Tpoppa |
In this day and age a motorcycle company is not going to be successful in the US market selling ONLY sport/sporty motorcycles near the upper end of the price range. MV tried and how often do you see an MV on the road (and even they are branching out to adventure bikes). How many superbikes actually sell in the US compared to other categories of sporty motorcycles? Do you think Ducati could survive on ONLY Panigale sales? EBR also doesn't have the reputation or racing success to command premium pricing. For years Ducati's bread and butter was Monsters, priced well below their superbikes. Triumph is doing really well with the Street Triple. If EBR came out with a competitive, comparable model in the 9-12k range I might just open my wallet. | |||
| Rick_fears |
^^that is coming |
EBR dealer FAQ