| Author | Message | ||
     Jolly |
I'm now a little confused... I've been working on the motor on one of my S1 bikes, pulled the primary off to replace the primary chain adjuster foot and then order new bolts for the install since the ones on the bike are really roached...I think this bike spent some or a lot of its life living outdoors....and that's where things get a little out of sorts.. I took a 2002 S3T parts manual to the HD shop to buy bolts by part number (yes its a 2002 parts manual and I'm working on an S1 bike, couldn't find the correct parts manual for the S1 and I was only picking up bolts and going to compare one bolt at a time while replacing them...but the problem doesn't really lie here ..) so the 2002 parts manual for an S3T calls for the following bolts: page 12 4820A (1/4 20 x 2") 4717A (1/4 20 x 2 1/4") found the parts manual for the S1 and it calls for the following bolts: page 10 3480A (1/4 20 x 1 3/4") 4717A (1/4 20 2 1/4") compared the bolts required to the service manual for each bike and found another discrepancy both the S3T and the S1 call for the following bolts and they match between the two manual: S1 FSM page 6-5 S3T (2002) FSM page 6-5 1/4 20 x 1 3/4" (part number 3480A) 1/4 20 x 2 1/4" (part number 4717A) so both FSMs call for the 3480A and the 4717A yet the S3T (2002) parts manual calls for the 4820A (1/4 20 x 2")INSTEAD of the 3480A 1/4 20 x 1 3/4") hmmm strange...dig a little deeper...started pulling corresponding bolts out of the primary cover on the 2002 S3T and it has the 2" bolts instead of the 1 3/4 bolts everywhere that the parts manual has it listed... ok.... dig deeper... everywhere there is a discrepancy between the bikes and the manuals is tied to the 1 3/4 vs 2" 1/4 20 bolts...so check the depth of each hole in the S1 with a depth gauge...and a 2 inch bolt will fit....thread one in and it fits without cutting new threads or bottoming out..... now the obvious thing to do would be to just go buy the 1/4 20 1 3/4 (3480A) bolts that the FSM calls for but if the 2 inch bolt fits and doesn't bottom out or cut new threads...isn't that the "better solution"? I know this isn't the first time the manuals have been wrong, but in this case the FSMs agree, its the one parts manual for the 2002 S3T that's different, and of course the fact that my 2002 S3T has the longer bolts 1/4 20 x 2" vs 1/4 20 x 1 3/4"(4820A vs 3480A) soooo anyone else found this and have a recommendation? my s1 is currently sitting on the work bench with the longer 4820A (1/4 20 x 2") instead of the shorter 3480A 1/4 20 x 1 3/4") but not going to hit final torque till I see what's really going on here..if someone else has seen this or done this I can hit them all with the torque wrench and be done, if it really needs the shorter bolt, well, they have to be ordered... no one has them in stock... just checked the S2 FSM and it calls for the same 3480A (1/4 20 x 1 3/4) the longer bolts did not bottom out nor did they cut new threads..."I'm just saying..." but they also are not at final torque....  (Message edited by Jolly on October 14, 2014) | ||
| Ratbuell |
Chances are, it was a running change on the HD assembly line (HD built the motors, remember...). If a big twin used 2" bolts...they slapped 'em in the 1200s, too. Fewer parts to keep track of. | ||
| Jolly |
so...... I am guessing it was a mid year change somewhere in 2002? based on my service manuals for all bikes calling for the shorter 1 3/4 bolt, and the parts manual which was probably printed after the change was implemented in mid year 2002(?) with the longer bolt... totally makes sense for a production line to use the most common parts they can for inventory cost.... I'm kind of stickler for using the right hardware, and didnt notice anything that would indicate the longer bolt would be a problem in the S1, I am assuming there were absolutely no case changes from 96 to 2002 so the longer bolt should work without causing any issue... I donty want to damage threads internally or bottom the bolt out just prior to proper torque spec and induce a problem by using a bolt longer than the FSM calls for....but I didnt "notice" any extra resistance with the longer bolt that would indicate a problem, so .... Any issues or use them if they fit? its ironic I suppose, I am neck deep in going through this S1, oil pump drive gear, rocker box conversion, cleaning scale off the motor since it was obviously stored outdoors for some time, swapping wheels, replacing bearings, new wave rotors, (unfortunately the marchesinnis are roached due to sitting for a long time with brake fluid dripping on them...) zippers collapsible push rod tube assemblies with billet bases... and I have a bolt question which is derived from discrepancies in mid year potential changes between the FSM and the parts catalog...not how to time a motor or how to...nope this one is a simple silly bolt length question.... I just dont want it to come back and bite me later....  | ||
| 46champ |
You are going about it correctly as long as the bolts don't bottom out you will be fine. | ||
| Thylacine |
Shorter bolts= less weight.a + in my book | ||
| Jolly |
well...I just had to know how much clearance there was so I took it back apart and measured... in the 7 holes that call for the 1 3/4 bolt the case is threaded approximately .850 inch deep (different holes hove slightly different measurements with variances in the .00x range), and the longer 8420A 2 inch bolts protrude through a powder-coated case (locally powder-coated - case was badly pitted so had to go with a wrinkle finish powdercoat) .655 inches with variances in the .00x range (this difference does not account for the extra width for the gasket). so no issue at all with the 2 inch bolt instead of the 1 3/4 bolt in the 7 holes that call for the 1 3/4 bolt. |
