| Author | Message | ||
     Motorbike |
My 08 XT has had an intermittent starting issue for quite a while now and since it never actually fails to start, I have just put up with it. I AM NOT talking about the standard problem where these things crank a little bit then almost completely stop when a cylinder comes up on compression. Mine has done that since brand new. Here is what occasionally happens: I ride the bike around town for 20 minutes or so and then shut it off for 10 minutes ( to fill with gas etc.) When I try to start it again, it occasionally cranks fast and kind of seems like it is half-ass firing at the same time and the engine slowly and lazily comes to life and then runs fine after that, almost as if it were either too lean or maybe too rich until it actually gets running and then clears up and smoothes out. If I shut it off and immediately try to start it again, it will usually fire right up after only one compression stroke and then will run great. I really have no idea what would cause this and I do not have ECMSPY / TunerPro or anything like that to debug the issue. I'm not sure I know enough about that stuff anyway to be able to use it. The odd thing is, the problem only shows up occasionally (usually when people are watching) and this bike runs absolutely great once it is up and running. Do any of your 08 and up bikes do this? I am open to any and all ideas you guys have. PS The bike is stock except for the EBR ECM and a little over 19,000 miles now. Thank you! (Message edited by motorbike on September 08, 2014) | ||
| Fotoguzzi |
First, your a lucky guy to own a Uly! I don't get what the problem is.. on mine I just stab the start button, no throttle input and let it fire till it's happy.. I never pull away until the idle gets down around 1,000. | ||
| Griffmeister |
That sounds vaguely familiar, I think I then get fooled and double click the starter thinking "it's running, it's not running" and look like a double fool as the starter grinds. Your description may just be the answer and nothing to worry about. The one cylinder fires almost immediately and pushes the second one through compression but doesn't quite start. Being a V-Twin the staggered timing could make this the luck of the draw, it will happen if one fires first but not the other. I say as long as it's running right don't worry. | ||
| Rayycc1 |
Not sure its like this on a Uly...But my old pan head...the number of kicks to get it started was directionally proportional to the amount of people watching....Large bike nights sucked.  | ||
| Buewulf |
A faulty temp sensor could be telling your ECM to give the wrong fuel mixture for a warm engine start. Not sure why shutting it off then back on would help that though other than electronics can be funny sometimes. Do you notice any black smoke after it fires up indicating unburned fuel was present in one of the cylinders? I suppose it could also be that one of your plugs or plug wires is not producing as strong a spark as it should making the warm starts more difficult on occasion. | ||
| Vman858 |
My 2007 uly did this once about two weeks ago. I think it might have been a relay somehow. Wouldn't turn over then after moving relays it s started but it was like I had to keep rpm up in order for it to stay running it clear up eventually. This happened after about a 30 min ride and 5min rest. I replaced all 4 relays for $20 and cleaned ground and haven't had any intermittent electrical problem since. I do know I had one intermittent relay. Might be worth a try. I think my ecm was getting intermittent power on start. (Message edited by Vman858 on September 09, 2014) (Message edited by Vman858 on September 09, 2014) | ||
| Motorbike |
Thank you all for your replies! The starting issue is very hard to describe and if I tried to show anyone, I'm sure it would not re-create. When it does have an issue as described above, it seems that it usually cranks over for a very short time and then it seems as if the connection is momentarily lost between the starter button and the starter. Then, as I continue to hold the button for a few seconds, it starts to crank and kind of fires and keeps spinning faster and faster until it clears itself up and keeps idling. Very strange I know. I kind of wonder if I may actually have a connection problem somewhere in the start system. It seems to me that if it would crank over without hesitating, it would start much better. I did try swapping the start relay with another relay and it made absolutely no difference. A while back I did have a connection issue where the wire connects to the start switch in the right handlebar control. Maybe I need to go back in and follow the entire start circuit and check each connection for corrosion, etc. What really gets me is the fact that it runs so good after it fires up. I went out for a 200 mile ride Sunday afternoon and it ran great and averaged 46 MPG, which I am very pleased with. As a side note, one time when I tried to start it at my home, the engine backfired once while cranking and then it fired up as I continued pushing the button. I'm sure my whole neighborhood heard it but it really doesn't matter. Most of those people have no mechanical skills whatsoever and probably ran for cover thinking they were being shot at. Thanks. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Start with the simple stuff, make sure the battery terminals and grounds are all perfectly clean and tight. | ||
| Motorbike |
Buewulf, I have not noticed any black smoke but then again I never think to look for it when it has the odd start issue. When the bike acts up occasionally, it reminds me of back in the day when cars had carburetors and would sometimes flood. When they would finally start, it would take a few seconds to clear up and you would see black smoke out the exhaust from the excess fuel, as you suggest. Thanks. | ||
| Motorbike |
I am still in the process of debugging the intermittent starting issue on my 08 XT. Yesterday, I tried to start it cold and when I pushed the start button, it turned over for a split second and then it was like the connection was completely lost. I just continued to hold the button to see what would happen and after about 10 or 12 seconds it started to crank again and then the engine started. I went out and rode around for about 20 minutes and then parked the bike. About ten minutes later, I went out and tried to start it and it did the same thing, cranked just enough to make me think it was working then nothing. Again, I held the button steady and after about 10 seconds it turned over and fired up again. I swapped the Key Switch Relay with the Aux relay - no change. I then swapped the Ignition Relay with the Aux Relay and today it started at least 5 times with no issue at all. The problem with debugging this issue is the fact that I never know if juice is getting to the green start wire on the starter solenoid when it acts up. I decided to temporarily rig up a light at the starter to let me know if power is getting to the terminal on the solenoid. I pulled the green wire off the starter and ran my new jumper wire between the green wire and the solenoid. I have another wire that runs from the start terminal to one side of a small red light that is grounded to a thru-bolt on the solenoid. When I remove this test light some day, I can just plug the wire back to the starter and there will be no evidence of ever using this tool. Please don't laugh at my redneck ways but I now can watch the little red light every time I push the start button and it lets me know if power is getting down there to activate the starter. (1) Under normal starting, the light dims down a bit during cranking when the engine comes up on compression but then stays on until I let go of the start button. (2) If the light is on but the starter is not spinning, I will know I have either a bad ground or bad starter. (3) If the light does not come on at all, I will know there is a bad connection somewhere between the start button and the starter. I just need to remember to watch the light every time I push the button, as this is an intermittent issue. I do have to bend over a bit to see the red light but so far it works great. I hope to give it a good test tomorrow as I plan to ride all day, if it doesn't rain. PS I also plan to remove this light after I figure out what is causing this problem so I don't have to explain to anyone that asks why a little red light comes on every time I start the bike. Thanks.   | ||
| Fotoguzzi |
Great idea! | ||
| Tootal |
I didn't see you say anything about your battery. How old is it? It could have enough to turn the engine over but not enough left over to make the ecm work. There is a minimum voltage requirement for the ecm. On my bike on a cool morning, I might have to barely crack the throttle to get it to start, and I mean barely. Too much and you will get a backfire that will scatter folks! | ||
| Uly_man |
"Please don't laugh at my redneck ways". There is nothing "Redneck" about it just solid diagnostic fault finding. Something a few other folk should take notice of. Oh and just a note. I had something like this on both my 06 and 10 Ulys. On the 06 bike I pulled the starter switch apart and sanded off the contacts. It was fine after that. On the 10 bike I found that pushing the switch in harder a few times fixed the problem, it has been fine since, and the normal "push pressure" on the switch works again. Try the "hard push" thing first. If it works then fine but if you think it is the switch then be VERY, VERY careful while taking it apart. It is easy to lose or damage any of the little bits inside the housing IE Springs, clips, etc. Also take great care and note how the throttle cables are routed and the outer sheaths are mounted in the housing. It is best to "back off" both the adjusters and re-set them once you have finished the job. This job is a fiddly pain in the ass to do so take you time doing it. It is best to avoid doing it if at all possible. Trust me I KNOW. | ||
| Motorbike |
Tootal, I had my H-D dealer do a test on the battery this Spring. It seemed like they knew what they were doing. They charged it for a while then ran it on their tester and gave me a printout that showed the battery to be in excellent condition. Took about a half hour total. The service manager even explained that these AGM batteries are different to test than the old lead-acid type, so he at least has a clue. Uly_man, I know what you mean. I had the start switch apart a couple years ago when the bike failed to start (turn over). At that time, the screw that attaches the wire to the switch was loose and there was a lot of corrosion on that small loop terminal on the wire. I cleaned it up thoroughly and it worked great after that. With that in mind, I pulled the Right Hand switch apart again a couple days ago to inspect and the connection was perfect yet. I am now going for a ride and will let you know if there are any changes on this. Thanks guys! | ||
| Motorbike |
Well, I was only able to put 185 miles on the XT this afternoon as I rode in the MN/WI Fall Flood Run. I remembered to watch my newly installed "test light" each time I started the bike. The bike started and ran absolutely flawlessly all day so now I have no idea why it had been acting up recently. Maybe it was the relay I swapped out a couple days ago? I guess I will just leave the test light installed for a while and see how it does on future rides. It was a great day for a ride but the crowds were huge. My pictures only capture a small part of the crowds. All was well until I got 12 miles from my home in Byron, MN and drove into a small thunderstorm. Oh well, I didn't melt! Thanks. Maiden Rock  Minnieska   | ||
| Fotoguzzi |
the traffic going into Prescott Wi was backed up for miles so I rode somewhere else myself. |
