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Xbimmer
| | Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 12:22 pm: | 
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How's this?
EXCELLENT!  |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 09:01 am: |
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Rayycc1. Your bike runs good because it has no faults. QUESTION - Does your oil cooler get good and hot?
This engines normal operating temp is from about 160 to 220 C. SS comes in at about 260 to 280 C to protect the engine from overheating. All done from the engine block sensor. These numbers are from the ECMs data base.
The only time the bike should go into SS is if the engine temp is ACTUALLY within that range, the engine sensor is faulty IE Out of calibration or that someone has changed the ECMs numbers that control it.
The only way to truly understand what your engine is doing on this bike is to use a diagnostic tool that can log the running numbers. This is a modern electronically controlled engine and the "seat of pants" thing is just a waste of time. It changes things by the micro second and is nothing like the "carb and points" of the old school stuff.
There are a number of folk who have sent a vast amount of time and effort making this tool available so use it. Yes it may take a little time/ effort, and $30 for a lead, but the saving of time, pain and money is nothing in comparison. Trust me I know and IS worth it. |
Etennuly
| | Posted on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 10:01 am: |
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Have you ever physically checked to see exactly what temps your motor is making? just wondering if your motor might not get warmer than normal for some reason?
Well yeah, it was hotter than normal, that was the reason for SS to happen, the reason is that the fan was not coming on when temperatures required it. With the fan not running on a long up hill with the temperature above 70F keeping the speed above 70mph caused enough load that the engine generated a lot of heat, which is normal. Air, or air that was simply too warm, was passing through the bike over the heads and cylinders that are partially blocked by a fan that was not turning as prescribed. The temperature sensor was working, the fan was functional just not on, power and ground testing proved good.
The only thing I found was the ECM though given the temp sensor signal, was not turning on the fan. Ergo manual switch.
I have checked it on ECMSPY but that was no good because SS did not happen unless the temps were above 70F and speeds above 70 mph. I never logged it because I don't have a laptop to do so with. I plug into a PC with a long cord.....but not that long!
I can tell you the muffler was getting quite hot, enough so that on a 90F day I could feel the heat radiating into my boots. Dumping excessive exhaust heat was the initial reason for my additional right rear exhaust port test pipe. It sounded so cool that I left it on. |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 10:22 am: |
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Whatever. |
Etennuly
| | Posted on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 03:07 pm: |
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Ulyman, this logical systematic plug in diagnostic program is perhaps why HD could not even see that it was happening, let alone fix the problem. Several times(at least four, and once for an entire week for just this problem) they had my Uly plugged in and run the shit out of it in their service bay while plugged into a computer. No matter how many times I explained to them that it will not overheat, causing this SS problem, unless under load in hot temperatures they just hammered on it in their service bay. I don't know why they didn't test it on their dyno. I even left it for a week where they said their head Buell mechanic would ride it home every day.
Like I stated before, the service tech said that he could NOT make it hit SS(according to the service manager and the tech). As I left the dealership with the Uly I COULD NOT KEEP IT FROM HITTING SS within the first two miles.
Having spent many years working in dealerships of one kind or another, I frequently saw and heard the BS stories that the customer had to endure when a fix could not be found for a problem. The most common answer was to tell the customer that the problem could not be duplicated in the shop.
EVERY parameter that was required to make the fan run at it's specific temperatures worked correctly according to the hard earned computer programs. That didn't matter to the real world life of the fan. With all of that logic saying that everything was within spec and the connections proven good, it still did not work. This problem has been looked at by some really bright engineer type folks on this forum over the past four or five years. I can only hope that HD had their engineers look at the problem, but we have no way of knowing that.
What we do know is that they never did come up with a fix for the problem that anyone here has seen. Many of us did find a solution.....after all of the diagnostic electrical testing failed to come up with an answer.....a literal seat of the pants, along the highway desperation fix did. At least it made the Uly ridable in 70F + temperatures. Something that they could not do for a lot of us. |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2014 - 11:52 am: |
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"my Uly plugged in and run the shit out of it in their service bay while plugged into a computer". THIS was the mistake and I agree on the BS thing as had it myself. Doing it in the service bay is NOT enough and you need to do a logged run so that you can examine what the engine has been doing while on that run.
The CEL will not show up intermittent sensor faults, for the most part, only sensors that are totally U/S and open or to Earth circuit wires. I have had 6 serious engine faults none of which came up on the CEL or in the ECMs history.
It is also, as I had it, possible to have MORE than one fault at a time. This can make it VERY HARD to figure out what the problem may be doing without a diagnostic tool.
"With the fan not running on a long up hill with the temperature above 70F keeping the speed above 70mph caused enough load that the engine generated a lot of heat, which is normal. Air, or air that was simply too warm, was passing through the bike over the heads and cylinders that are partially blocked by a fan that was not turning as prescribed". My 06 bikes engine would run like a furnace but the fan did not come on or get SS even at 90F air temp.
Do not get me wrong. The fan override for the 06/07 bikes is s great idea and I would do the same if I still had that year bike. You may also be able to cut or at least reduce the "always on CEL" for the fan in the ECMs software. I would need to check this out? Good luck, Gents. |
Rayycc1
| | Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2014 - 06:05 pm: |
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Anyone heard of these? New product to keep Harleys cool...http://love-jugs.com/pricing/ |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Friday, July 18, 2014 - 07:07 pm: |
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ET. "I gave my throttle a little twist and it slowed down, further and it slowed more. Soon I had to pull in behind the truck I was passing and let other traffic pass me as I slowed to 55 mph for the duration of the hill. After that it did SS randomly as if it knew when I was wanting to actually go someplace. As a few weeks went by it started hitting SS everytime the temperature was above 80 wherein I was trying to run 70 mph". Did you file off the paint from the face of the Earth post on the rear sub frame that the battery and ECM Earth wires are bolted on to?
This sounds very much like a engine timing issue and I had it myself due to this on my 06 bike. It is/ was a HD Tech listing for this known problem.
The ECM has three, with internal cross control, sections with an Earth for each one. Those sections are the engine fueling, engine timing and exhaust control. Battery charging if via the VR and the dash is on its own with the Earth/ positives from the steering head IE Three plus three. |
Etennuly
| | Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2014 - 11:07 am: |
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Oh yeah, We/I tried every known related process that should have fixed the problem. Sometimes it did fix it for a short time, but it always came back.
I fixed all of the grounds, I went after the timing, it was retarded a little. I advanced it until it would ping and backed it off a couple of degrees. But that did not solve the problem either. HD's and my testing showed the timing to be within spec before I changed it and it still is after my changes. |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Monday, July 21, 2014 - 07:09 am: |
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Hi ET. It sounds like you have had a real good go at the problem and done all you can. I am sure, as I was, that it has been a real pain and all you want to do is just ride the dam thing. Some info here if of any interest to you or others.
The "key on" is (engine oil temp) fan on at 220c - 428f and fan off at 180c - 356f. SS trigger is 275 to 280c and the CEL will flash at 280c. Those numbers are from the 05 - 07 bikes ECM.
Given all you have said and done it sounds like either the engine sensor or that someone has changed a point in the ECM but it is hard to be sure on these bikes. Has it always done this and/ or did you buy the bike used?
I wish I could get my hands on your bike as it sounds like a real challenge to fix. The bike still has a fault but if your fix works for you then that is good. On the other hand if you want to , in the future, any help with something like TunerPro to find that fault I would be happy to help. |
Etennuly
| | Posted on Monday, July 21, 2014 - 06:59 pm: |
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I bought it new in '06, it is an '06. It hit SS the first time on a hot summer day as I was loaded up for a vacation trip with the Uly. I think it was for Homecoming of '07. It was the first and only time I had put synthetic oil in it. I was about 70 miles up the Interstate, turned around headed back where I changed the oil back to HD 60W. It still did it when I went back out on the superslab, but not as much or as easily.
From that day on it randomly did SS. It had to be above 70F and maintaining a speed of 70 mph, then come to an up hill stretch and it would SS. It was otherwise perfect in cooler weather.
I replaced the temp sensor as well, and fixed 19 separate wiring problems from compromised insulation rubbing through, or partially melted wire insulation, and onto the 77 connector.
According to Ecm Spy it hit all of its numbers for temperature, timing, fuel and the like. I went into it to check several times, everything always came up roses. Same said by HD with their diagnostics. I know for a fact that the bike did the SS for them simply because it could not run without going there.
When it hits SS, it is a normal function of the bike to automatically cool itself back down, so a SS event will not throw a code.
I would have loved to have you helping on this back then, all at one time several of us on BadWeB had the same problem. I recall some Uly owners jumped ship after HD had their bikes for weeks with no solution. A bunch of the faithful went to manual switching to keep their Ulys running in the summer.
As far as I know to this day, HD never did admit this actually was a problem or ever happened to any Ulysses motorcycle. |
Xbimmer
| | Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2014 - 07:38 pm: |
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Well it's in the 90's today. Decided to take a 2-up jaunt and see how things go. Bike has been running pretty well last couple of weeks with only a couple S/S episodes, usually with temps in the hi-90's or more and freeway running at 75-85 mph and windy.
Wife and I headed up the 210 (against the wind) doing 70, went several miles before exiting to take Hwy 18 into the mountains. Fan was running but no CEL or S/S up to this point. Nice, I thought, but don't get the hopes up. Hung a left at Hwy 138 in Crestline to take the fun way back down toward Silverwood Lake and I-15 eventually. Cycle World recently tested some bikes on that stretch an I can see why, smooth and clean new pavement. We were strolling through just enjoying the scenery and bobbing around in the wind, still no CEL.
Hwy 138 stretches out heading west past the lake so I opened it up to 80, still running GREAT. More twisties just before I-15, we got gas at Cajon Pass and headed south on Old Route 66. Jumped back onto the 210 north of San Berdoo just in time to split lanes for several miles due to a wadded up Honda car on the freeway. 2-up and crawling with the fat-ass Journeys and the Uly was running smooth as silk. Got past the wreck, opened it up along with a Victory rider splitting lanes with us and where I would have been rewarded with S/S before only got a little ping and away she went. Exited for lunch and the bike performed flawlessly through city traffic.
Only changes I made before we left were I bumped the idle up a bit and removed the oil cooler scoop again. Hmmmm... |
Etennuly
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2014 - 10:12 pm: |
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Well I hit SS today! Running 80+ mph for over 150 miles when it started. I kinda freeked out for a minute until I realized my fan was not running with the switch on. It did it the first time over the weekend in the mountains. I found the crimp in the fan to ECM wire came loose. Forgot to re crimp it before riding today.
The temperatures were in the high 70's, all I had to do to get it to stop SS was duck my helmet and shoulders down about six inches out of the wind. It did pretty good for no fan running at all, but it does have the right side scoop and the comfort kit guiding the air flow.
The Uly hit 61,000 miles today running better and smoother than ever on this 190 mile Interstate run. Damn I love this bike still! I have a new set of permagrin prints inside my helmet! |
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