| Author | Message | ||
     Jens |
Thats one of the other things I don´t get. Can it be so difficult to fix 2 vans and 2 R1, or whatever, drive through Europe and learn the tracks? From the distance it looks like, next to all goes wrong because it´s done wrong. | ||
| Hughlysses |
From the distance it looks like, next to all goes wrong because it´s done wrong. Given the team's apparent lack of any semblance of competency in every other area, for all we know the actual EBR 1190RX may be fine for WSBK competition and capable of much better performances. Perhaps EBR has failed to make their "protection" payments to certain parties in Italy?  | ||
| Jscott |
^BINGO^ EBR/Hero needs to pull the plug on Claudio Quintarelli and Giulio Bardi. Reboot when they can put together a team that can do the bike and brand justice, | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"for all we know the actual EBR 1190RX may be fine for WSBK competition and capable of much better performances. " 30mph slower than the leader says that it isnt. Not even close. EBR, this season, is akin to Barack Obama - lots of talk and a big failure. This is disgusting Yall keep making excuses, how they've not paid people off, are saving their engines, wahtever, its all bogus. I dont think that the team is very good (crew), but keep in mind that May retired because he didnt want to hold up the faster bikes - wtf? He had a running bike and decided to quit the race? That's not really helping the data acquisition much. or anything. | ||
| Hughlysses |
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| Hughlysses |
...and the requisite official team press release: http://us5.campaign-archive1.com/?u=b1964295d7f155 fa8c439a200&id=cb2c0c6344
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? | ||
| Classax |
Hughlysses, you made my week! Haven't heard that song since I was a kid. Whoohoa! Lol. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
So they arent shipping the things the same time as Yates' parts? Seriously, this team is so ass-backwards | ||
| Ljm |
So, here is a puzzle to me coming from a different sporting background with national level and international participation and championships: why the lack of practice and continual testing? While I can see that if you are an amateur racer, you get on the track when it is available, and are really stuck with your own transportation, parts budget, etc. But why are the racers at the highest level not testing every day or week, doing run-throughs, staging parts, etc. In my simple, non-motor sport, we leave no stone unturned and each event is preceded by weeks of testing and fine tuning. We even travel with our own food, scales, backup equipment because each of those may be critical in a given situation. I guess it seems like there should be a similar level here that I am not seeing. Coming from a non-racing background I don't understand. | ||
| Rubberdown |
Arrogant Buell Racing? ABR? Man, I hope they get this mess sorted out.! Hugh, I still catch HeeHaw on Dish. Good Stuff! | ||
| Classax |
Its just the opposite in WSBK. Knowing a track is such an advantage as is setting up suspension and as is the case with many bikes being able to tune the corner to corner engine management, testing is limited to a few times a year. The teams may only break engine seals for repair or modification in the presence of a Tech official and often arrive separately from the rest of the bike. Its all very amazing actually. Give any of the riders at this level a chance to test or practice a track on the circuit and it will clearly show. The Hero/EBR team is clearly a privateer effort being sponsored not a factory team being run by the factory ahlah MV and Bimota or Kawi and Aprilia. I know what the livery on the bikes say, but its clear this is not a highly effective team. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"The Hero/EBR team is clearly a privateer effort being sponsored not a factory team being run by the factory" #excuses | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
The team obviously need a rocket up them to get some progress made. I believe this bike / team is beyond even my help Matt  All I will say is this. EBR Hero must have their reasons for being in WSBK, or they can't get out for whatever reasons. I'm wondering if EBR are contracted to Hero to compete. Maybe they've got a secret weapon waiting to be unleashed for next season when they come out and blitz the field after lulling us into believing they're utterly useless.Who knows  Rocket in England | ||
| Classax |
"The Hero/EBR team is clearly a privateer effort being sponsored not a factory team being run by the factory" #excuses More of an indictment. I don't know the above to be a fact, but due to the their performance, one can only postulate plausible explanations. If the EVOs are supposed to be near stock, and the EBRs are slower even than the slowest Superstocks, its either the bikes are crap or the team has set them up wrong. Having ridden both the zx10r and RX on track back to back, no way the EBR should be getting crushed the way they are. Some thing is clearly wrong. | ||
| Buellmojo |
I find it funny that you mentioned the ZX10R... many of the test riders that has ridden the ZX10R in the shootouts, made mention, that the ZX10R seemed slow around the track,and that it even felt somewhat boring, yet their times showed/proved differently... they also kept, while not even noticing, getting faster each lap. I don't know, I have no reason not to believe them... maybe your experience was similar? I have read excuse after excuse, reason after reason for the EBR/HERO bikes poor results, even different speculated reasons why they chose to race in this Series in the first place...I will say this, it is entertaining! | ||
| Jens |
http://www.speedweek.com/sbk/news/59582/Exklusiv-B uell-(EBR)-in-Laguna-Seca-mit-drei-Fahrern.html Translation: EBR will do anything to look good at Laguna Seca Larry Pegram is announced as 3. Rider Geoff May starts in Portimão from the pits to have 4 engines for Laguna. EBR will prevent that way an embarrassing start from the pits at the Home race. The idea is that Pegram mark the bench, not only to question the riders but also the work of the italien team what is managing the WSBK racing for EBR. For more info use Google Translator. (Message edited by Jens on July 05, 2014) | ||
| Fast1075 |
Looks like Geoff's new engine that was held up in customs is "better". They both qualified in FP3. Geoff is quite a bit quicker, and I think the speed is a bit better. | ||
| Trojan |
After yesterday’s challenging day both Team Hero EBR riders made it onto the grid in 24th and 26th respectively, improving massively. Hurrah! may ended the session around 3.5 seconds off pole which is a huge improvement (in terms of time if not position). Lets see now if they can last for full race distance. | ||
| Jens |
Looking good, let's hope that he have that engine over the distance. Could be a qualy engine... | ||
| Trojan |
I suppose now in theory he could use an updated engine every time as he has already exceeded his engine quota for the year, so won't face any extra punishment other than starting form pit lane (which reallt isn't a punishment if you are on the back row anyway, as you avoid the first corner shenanigans.). As a bit of a reality check though.....he is still 1.5 seconds adrift of the rider in 23rd place and still slower than the top 10 supersprot riders today  (Message edited by trojan on July 05, 2014) | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Let me get this right. Starting from the pit lane Portimao to save face at Laguna? Sounds to me like EBR Hero do have an interest in how their bike is perceived by the American public after all. Telling how their actions provide a suggestion WSBK racing isn't widely popular amongst the U.S. motorcycle scene, thus EBR Hero can take the risk of participating with no success whatsoever and it not damaging their reputation. But when it comes to race day America, where the standing public DO take an interest in WSBK that escapes the usual trackside boundaries, EBR Hero are suddenly keen to show off their presence in a somewhat fudged attempt to look good on track. That said, I'd love to see Pegram get a bloody good result, so I guess you can't blame EBR Hero for trying. It is after all their home race. Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
There is a short tech talk video on the world superbike site regarding EBR... http://www.worldsbk.com/en/videos/2014/Tech%20Talk %20Team%20Hero%20EBR?from_list=latest_videos The eternal optimist | ||
| Classax |
Around here the zx10r is the club racing weapon of choice. It's easy to ride, its lighter than anything but the Panigale and had a short wheelbase so it turns well. The motors are pretty easy to tune. That said the EBR is about 20lbs heavier but makes more power and torque every where until the ninja catches up at 12K and spins for another 2k. The electronics let you flog it. The EBR sharper and quicker without being brutal but runs out of revs on only the longest straights. You could throw a few tenths over them both around the track. EBR should be doing everything possible to look good at Laguna. To date all we've really seen and heard about them is a pitiful "their still developing the bike" from the commentators. In the USA they will be under both a spotlight a microscope at the same time. Looks like May is starting to make some headway but is still swimming up stream. I wish the the best. | ||
| Classax |
Telling how their actions provide a suggestion WSBK racing isn't widely popular amongst the U.S. motorcycle scene, thus EBR Hero can take the risk of participating with no success whatsoever and it not damaging their reputation. But when it comes to race day America, where the standing public DO take an interest in WSBK that escapes the usual trackside boundaries, EBR Hero are suddenly keen to show off their presence in a somewhat fudged attempt to look good on track. What The.... What actions make you think they don't think WSBK isn't widely popular in the US. We have a huge population and while they may not all follow WSBK like the NFL or MLB but it still a number quite comparable to other countries if not more. Let's not make with the conspiracy theories. May killed his last engine at Sepang. They made their request before Misano and have been allotted 4 more. The rules state that he had to start from the pit for the next two races ie Misano and Portimão. They asked if the pit start penalty could be waived and were denied, that's all. If they use all 4 of those engines too (12 scary) and need more they will have to deal with the same penalty for the first two races any new engines are used in. No MI5 deciphering required. http://www.worldsbk.com/en/videos/2014/Tech%20Talk %20Team%20Hero%20EBR?from_list=latest_videos The more I see it the more I think that extra fuel tank must really throw the geometry of the bike off. Its in the best possible worst place. The bike design centralizes so much mass and then you have that thing hanging out there like a boat anchor. She is sexy when she is naked though is she. | ||
| Hughlysses |
The more I see it the more I think that extra fuel tank must really throw the geometry of the bike off. Its in the best possible worst place. The bike design centralizes so much mass and then you have that thing hanging out there like a boat anchor. She is sexy when she is naked though is she. Mark Miller talks about it a little bit in his post IOM TT audio interview. The EBR's at IOM ran the same fuel auxiliary fuel tank. This tank gave them fits during the mandatory refueling stops as the auxiliary tank wouldn't fill quickly and resulted in some of their DNF's in competition. Additionally, when they first started practicing at IOM, Miller and Cretu were having all kinds of trouble getting the suspensions set up until the Ohlins rep at IOM talked to the Ohlins guy at WSBK. After that, they switched to MUCH stiffer rear springs and the bike's handling dramatically improved. Thinking long-term, I wonder how much taller and/or wider the frame rails would need to be to provide the required fuel capacity IN the frame? I'd think ditching that under seat tank would have to significantly help the bike both in handling and wheelie control. IIRC, the auxiliary tank is ~1.5 gallons, which is about 346 cubic inches. I did a SWAG at the frame dimensions (I don't have an RX handy to measure) and it looks like the frame would need to be somewhere around 3 inches taller to hold all the fuel, or less if they widen the frame in a few areas. That seems very tall, but it's probably doable. It occurs to me that the 1190AX needs some additional fuel capacity for its intended application. EBR could develop a new, larger frame for the AX, and either come out with an RX variant that also uses the frame, or perhaps they'd be allowed to use this frame on an otherwise-standard RX for competition next year. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out the AX has already been developed and such a frame already exists. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Good quote Jens!
Translation of translation
And it's kind of funny that early on, the only positive thing Trojan had to say about the EBR WSBK effort was that they had an experienced WSBK team. It's getting kind of hard even for optimists like me to not look to the team as at least part of the problem. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Today's Team Hero/EBR press release: http://us5.campaign-archive2.com/?u=b1964295d7f155 fa8c439a200&id=d280c97aa3 It's clearly stated that Geoff is running an "improved engine". It's about freaking time! | ||
| Classax |
They could get about an extra liter of fuel by finding a way to make a smaller fuel pump assembly. Hugh I really think we will see that very same tank design on the AX as standard. For a bike like the AX that will be reinforced to carry more weight and way more suspension travel its not as big an issue. With the tc below three the RX wants to lift that front wheel nearly all time at wide open throttle in the first 3 gears. I actually wish they had to be forced to go race distance on stock fuel tanks. True power would be less and laptimes slower, but its a cheap self regulating way to improve the racing. Carry more fuel and you pay the penalty in weight. So MFG won't be inclined to just make bigger ones for the sake of gaining more power. Especially if you have to still meet min weight requirements when empty. But that just me. I would imagine the with the fuel there the bike's handling gets more nose heavy(rear preload,forces nose steeper) through out the the race, great for turn in but it must be murder on the brakes. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"I don't know the above to be a fact, but due to the their performance, one can only postulate plausible explanations. If the EVOs are supposed to be near stock, and the EBRs are slower even than the slowest Superstocks, its either the bikes are crap or the team has set them up wrong." maybe its not the bike they thought? Maybe its rider(s)? Who knows "Some thing is clearly wrong." oh, we're well aware of this | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
What The.... What actions make you think they don't think WSBK isn't widely popular in the US. We have a huge population and while they may not all follow WSBK like the NFL or MLB but it still a number quite comparable to other countries if not more. You do have a huge population. 314 million of you. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=us+population&oq =us+population&aqs=chrome..69i57.4289j0j8&sourceid =chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8 But who's watching WSBK? Top 6 motorsport event TV viewing averages 2013. Less than 5 mil doesn't give motorcycle racing so much as a look in. http://www.statista.com/statistics/251552/average- us-tv-audience-of-selected-motor-sports-events/ AMA the most popular, wavering above 3 mil viewing. http://www.statista.com/statistics/229001/people-w ho-are-very-interested-in-ama-pro-racing-motorcycl e-atv-usa/ Given WSBK is nowhere near as viewed in America as AMA, I think it's safe to say WSBK viewing audiences will increase considerably enough for the home round, as to prick up EBR's ears. Make of it what you will. It looks like WSBK isn't much of a priority to the company outside of America. Could it be international sales no immediate concern in place of domestic market success? A market where WSBK racing won't make a ha'porth of difference to sales one way or another unless EBR Hero start winning. Rocket in England |
