| Author | Message | ||
     Uly_man |
Since asked please pole how you engine runs on heat. Year and miles please. In this case does the oil cooler start to get hot from a cold start and is the oil cooler VERY hot to touch after a normal run? The purpose of this poll is to figure out if the 06, or other, bikes are cooling as they should, for whatever reason, which will effect other issues. (Message edited by uly_man on June 02, 2014) | ||
| Ishai |
Thanks for starting this poll.2006, 32k miles, has comfort kit. Seat is very hot- and it is a Corbin btw, stock seat even hotter. Oil cooler feels hot. I did not try to hold my hand to it for long time- I just wanted to verify that it is hot, and it is. I did not check weather it gets hot at starting. | ||
| Ishai |
Regarding frame- frame is hot but does not bother me much, it only becomes a factor at stop and go trafic which I try to avoid... | ||
| Rayycc1 |
My 06 has 11K on the clock...runs fantastic...does get warm...but not overly so...fan runs more often than not.I put it thru 160Miles of first and second gear mostly last weekend...In 85 F temps going up down and thru the WV mountains...not so much as a cough. | ||
| Sagehawk |
07 xb12x at 19000 miles. a repost here, i would share that lately i went to a scotts oil filter, with 60 wt amsoil dominator oil. for the first time oil cooler went up to a reasonable temp. after ride home from work, 50 miles at 70-75 mph, swingarm was around 145*, oil cooler was at 140, oil line to filter was 120ish. oil line from pump to swingarm was also 140ish. scott oil filter was 140ish. funny thing that i am still thinking is the oil line from pump to cooler was 245* . I'm going to see what oil flow is in diagram and the pressure side is top or bottom of pump. timing chest is always hot by hand but i didn't shoot it for whatever reason. after a few minutes of sitting with motor off the filter housing had heat soaked up to 180ish. Ive often wondered if the filters were the backup in the oil system being between cooler and actually feeding the engine. the k&n's that i have run were always super hot by hand and the cooler was never actually hot. now I've had the frame at 115 and the battery/ecm under seat at 145 a time or two. a lot of my motor roll was using dei products, lining inside of frame, blanket above shock, and closing off upper right frame above rear head. thru ecmspy I've lowered fan setting to 211c to come on earlier if needed. figured before the omg my fan is on , I'm too hot had to leave my head and just use the fan to cool as much as needed whether rolling or not. Now its a useup, throw away when it goes bad item. sure beats a motor roll and gasket replacement for more than the one time I've already done that job. The heat is not getting to me as once before but we've had a lot cooler weather this year. now summer is upon us and I'll have to change settings a bit more and possibly have a eeprom for summer and one for winter. | ||
| Dualsportdad |
My engine and frame used to get really hot until I put a race kit on it. Its warm now. | ||
| Rwven |
2008 XT, 47,000 miles I've got the EBR ECM, Comfort Kit, aluminized blanket under the airbox area. Stock seat can get very hot but I use the tall seat and it's much better. I also use an Alaska Sheepskin cover. I rode down to visit my son in Angleton TX a little over two years ago. The temps were 100+. My wife and I took a ride down to Galveston one day, it was hotter than the hinges of Hades. Returning to my son's house I pulled the bike into his garage, shut it off and immediately the gasoline began boiling in the tank. (Message edited by rwven on June 17, 2014) | ||
| Schwiggy |
06 22k miles. Since installing the comfort kit, my right leg gets almost unbearably hot, especially just riding around town. Previous to installing the comfort kit the fan would come on more often and my leg would definitely not get as hot. | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
@Dualsportdad- What's a race kit? 21K, Comfort kit, EBR Race ECM. After coming off three seasons on an 1125R, the Ully is just warm. Boiling fuel and roasted legs were a daily occurance on the 1125. | ||
| Sagehawk |
Rwven, if your ever back in angleton, give a shout. Been trying to leave for several years and just cant get away. So will probably still be here. Someone will discover 3 bikes in the ice. You know next ice age and all. it should be cooler in galveston then anyway. | ||
| Sprintex |
I'm with Schwiggy. My 06 same thing, right leg is way hotter since installing comfort kit and the left rail is hot which didn't happen before, | ||
| Sprintex |
I should ad if I sit toward the back of the seat my legs are away from the frame and it is not bad but I always slide forward and end up sitting on the front of the seat which is the low. | ||
| Dualsportdad |
Race kit: k&n filter, ebr race muffler and flashed stock PCM with fuel maps but left the ignition maps stock. I was getting detonation with race ignition maps. Bike runs great, sounds good I just might switch back to a stock air filter as I do ride off road with others at times so I don't want their dust in my engine. | ||
| Ulyful |
'06 Uly, 3500 miles, just installed the full comfort kit a couple of weekends ago, and taped an aluminized heat shield over the frame hole (covering the right rear corner of the rear cylinder head) under the front of the seat (directs the air under the seat pan now vs. the under-seat space (where the battery and ECM is) between the top of the seat pan and bottom of the seat). The fan runs less now than it used to (didn't reprogram the stock ECM), and the discomfort from the heat is very noticeably less now. Frame is relatively hot, but bearable. I spread my legs into the wind a bit to capture cooler air and direct it at the frame when I ride in really hot weather to cool the frame (and me). Works well. | ||
| Ishai |
Also need to mention that my fan runs for about 90 seconds or more after shut down, so the engine does run hot. Once in a while the engine will go to skip-spark, and it seems that when it does I need to rev it up and it snaps out of that condition. All sensors are new(engine temp, O2, air temp). Mpg is 40 no matter how and where I ride. | ||
| Ulyful |
Ishai, My fan will run up to 90 seconds after engine shutoff as well, even if it hadn't run during the entire time I rode it. I am a little reluctant to walk away from it with the fan still running, but by the time I take my helmet and goggles off and pull by bag out of the top case, it usually shuts off, however, I have walked away from it with the fan still running a time or two. | ||
| Ishai |
I am not that concerned about the long run time of the fan, I mentioned that as an indication that my engine runs hot, maybe hotter than it should if everything is right. What I am looking for is suggestions at how to lower the engine"s running temps- it appears that some bikes run cooler than others. All the remedies mentions are all about how to treat the symptoms rather than the cause...so if anyone has suggestions as to how to bring the engine to a cooler running condition- please, chime in... | ||
| Sagehawk |
Ishai, im looking over my 07 oiling system now and measuring temps at various points. My post above denotes first round of findings. The way the oil tubing comes out of pump in a 90° fitting, cooler, another 90° fitting back to case, filter then motor seems strange. American iron magazine i last got had a donny peterson article on oil coolers. Seems jagg has their setup to go to filter first, then cooler, then motor. Ive no idea if 6 row coolersare turbolated or not. The motor companies influence to save money may have been a factor. With nothing else done, have you datalogged to optimize fuel maps and then dyno,ed to optimize timing? Change fan settings to come on at lower temps! Possibilities are endless for our collective open minds | ||
| Uly_man |
"All the remedies mentions are all about how to treat the symptoms rather than the cause". Very true, not the way to do it and was the point of this poll. The engine runs about 160 to 220 C (320 to 430 F). It goes into skip mode at about 280 C. If your oil cooler is cold enough to hold your hand on then it is either a design problem or a fault with the bike. The oil cooler on this bike is a PRIMARY COOLING DEVICE and if it is not working right it could damage the engine in the long run. It did NOT work on my 06 bike but DOES on the 10 bike. What does yours do and what year bike is it that YOU have? | ||
| Terrycoxusa |
1. I rode my 06 Uly across 300 miles of desert a couple of weeks ago with temps up to 105 degrees. I don't think there's much engine or exhaust heat, and I have the comfort kit. 2. I had an 80's BMW R100 and one of the very popular add ons was a dipstick/thermometer so you could glance down and see what the oil temperature actually was. Trying to quantify the temperature by sense of feel doesn't really tell anybody a thing, since it's so subjective. 3. I run synthetic oil, it has a higher breakdown temp. I have about 12k on my bike, no problems ever, except for the pulsing front brake. | ||
| Terrycoxusa |
Also, if someone is measuring the oil lines with an infra red scope, you are getting the temperature of the line, not the oil. Some tubing conducts heat more readily than others. Assuming that the engine is running, the temperature of the oil should be lower after leaving the oil cooler, but the only definitive way to find out would be to have a probe that measured the actual oil temp. | ||
| Uly_man |
"Trying to quantify the temperature by sense of feel doesn't really tell anybody a thing, since it's so subjective". Ok so it seems like I NEED, as I do at my work, to spell it out. In the case of the Buell it has no oil cooler thermostat, unless I have been told wrong, so it is NOT subjective and will start to heat from start up of the engine and get hotter from then on. Is that any clearer? And yes you need a contact prob but the basics in this case are fine. (Message edited by uly_man on June 22, 2014) | ||
| Ratbuell |
I have NEVER had a heat "issue" with my 06, which is sitting in the garage at a click over 31k right now. Original owner, bought it new, I run it bone stock with an EBR tune, K&N filter, and comfort kit bits. I taped/insulated the gap on the right side of the seat. I do not have the heat deflector insert thingys that go under the seat. Factory tall seat. Does my fan run? Yep. I actually think the EBR tune has a lower trigger temp - and I'm fine with that. Does it run after I key off? Yep. And I'm fine with THAT. I also still have the factory battery under the seat. Have I ever been uncomfortable from heat? Nope. Concerned about engine life? Nope. Hit skip-spark? Nope. Oil leaks? Nope. My PCV grommets have some fuzz on them but that's about it. Factory breather setup, I do not have an airbox full of oil. Moist, yes, but dripping? Nope. A little about me. The LEAST I will wear when I ride, is the Buell adventure pants. (jacket, gloves, etc, too...but not germane to this topic). I wear Sidi touring boots with normal ol' sweatsocks. No burned thigh. No hot calf. Yes, I sit in traffic. Don't like to...but it happens. Yes, I've ridden in (and to/from) Florida and other "hot places". During hot months. If things start to warm up...I rotate my knee away from the frame and let some air in for a mile or two. If the check engine light isn't on, if the engine isn't in skip-spark...it's not "too hot". YOU may be uncomfortable and might have to adjust your riding position and/or gear choice, but the bike won't eat itself or melt down. That's what the light...and skip-spark, are for. | ||
| Terrycoxusa |
Ratbuell, you couldn't have said it better. I suppose if a person was living in a cool climate like England, their idea of hot might be different than someone that lived in the desert. I was a fireman for 32 years, and if my clothes weren't smoking, it wasn't hot. | ||
| Ishai |
Uly_man- my bike is a 2006,33000 miles, stock, with the comfort kit which just delays the onset of the very hot seat. The oil cooler is hot as expected. What I would like to find out is what is the root cause for my bike running so hot- it does go into skip spark quite often- it even did so when outside temps were in the 60-70's.. The fact that comparable bikes run as expected (Ratbuell's)and others (mine) don't- I am trying to figure out why and how to fix it. Right now the only thing that stands out is the consistent MPG no matter how I ride the bike,highway or back roads, it always stays at 39-40 mpg, no variation at all. also consistent is the heat.... | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
How is your state of tune? Plugs/wires? Do you idle in traffic a lot? IF you sit for 10 minutes in 70 degree temps the fan will kick on, I would think. (Message edited by sir_wadsalot on June 24, 2014) | ||
| Sagehawk |
Ishai, are you able to pull your fuel and ignition maps in a screen shot to post here? Ill put mine up tonight and we can see what your 06 is compared my 07. Also, ive been looking at having my injectors cleaned to make sure that they flow compared to specs and in relation to each other.how bout timing as well? | ||
| Ishai |
Sagehawk- I am not able currently to pull this info from the ECM, so I understand I am flailing blindly in trying to solve the issues. I will have to put effort into getting the ability to do so. Looks like it is the only proper way... plugs are about 3000 miles old, wires I cant remember, maybe 13 k miles. I know I replaced them at least once. My ride is mostly twisties, don't idle in trafic a lot. The Skip-Spark can happen any time. So, looks like the ball is in my court, I will have to figure out Tunnerpro or ECMSpy. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Ishai - I was thinking about your bike today, while riding mine in mesh pants, in 100+ heat index weather with high humidity...and no issues. Have you checked your timing? Theoretically, if your timing is retarded you could lose a very small amount of performance...but it could make the engine run hotter. You may not "feel" the sluggishness from retarded spark, but you could feel the heat. Pop your timing cover off and advance your timing until you just start to get detonation at WFO. Then, back it off half a tic-mark (you'll see them in there). See if that makes any difference at all. | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
Ishai- It's been in the mid 90's in VA....I was thinking of you too....nohomo....if you're running lean, that will cause extra heat too. You need to pull your plugs and check the gap. GENERAL TIP! The heat shield that comes with the comfort kit...metallic foil with shredded material bonded to it. That's what mine had under the seat, I assume it came with the comfort kit. It was turned metal side up, covering the shock mount. I flipped it metal side down, (because that's the radiant shield, insulation is facing me now)- I cut a slit in it, and put the seat hold down tab through the slit. When I put the seat on, it pins the shield, metal down, right over the big hole above the rear cylinder head, completely blocking it off. When you pull the seat off, the shield comes off with it attached to the tab. I bet I lost 80% of the heat in my seat from that alone. | ||
| Ishai |
Joe- my timing is spot on, it was one of the things on the check list I tried. Last fall I went to Lancaster HD to have it checked by Brandon- their Buell tech, who checked timing vs engine temp as was taught at Buell training. The timing is spot-on and the engine does not ping at all, never did for that matter. Sir Wadsalot- thanks for your suggestion concerning the heat shield- I will give it a try. |
