| Author |
Message |
    
Revz
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 - 12:57 pm: | 
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Starter/Solenoid Challenges
Thunderbolt S3, 1997
Okay to start...
Yes went through troubleshooting of relays
Yes battery is charged
Yes all switches/relays are engaging in proper order including side stand switch and kill switch and starter switch
Yes have removed and reattached grounds
Yes have applied dielectric grease to connections
Yes went through troubleshooting of starter solenoid and bought new solenoid/starter
Now, it seems(?) that maybe the solenoid plunger is not retracting.
When starting it sounds like a low battery clicking sound for a bit then engages and starts.
Starting is inconsistent
If I "wiggle" the shifter to confirm neutral sometimes that will enable a "clean" start
Sometimes if I put into 1st gear, push bike back and forth, I'll get a clean start
Once bike is started get over 14v to battery. Over 12.7v at initialization of all of the above.
Is there a way that the solenoid can be out of line? Have removed and reinstalled to make sure connection is right, but...? And I know the solenoid gears are angled to mesh easily...
Sometimes will start no big deal...
Waldo is in this starter/solenoid can anybody help me find where/what to look for?
Thanks in advance |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 - 02:04 pm: |
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Not to say it can't be the starter solenoid, because it could be, I had the exact same symptoms on my Uly, with the exact same workarounds.
Turned out it was a cracked wire in the steering head bundle. "Rocking the bike" was just moving the wires.
FWIW. |
Andersonhdj
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 - 05:23 pm: |
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quote:Turned out it was a cracked wire in the steering head bundle. "Rocking the bike" was just moving the wires.
I would tend to agree , not enough current delivery to the solenoid for proper contact?
It's a known problem , would look there first. |
Revz
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 - 08:37 pm: |
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Thanks for responding. Checking things again. turned steering head while starting and no difference...
REVz |
Buell_bert
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2014 - 08:32 am: |
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Neutral safety switch? But doesn't pulling the clutch in bypass it? How about dirty diode connections? Hey just thinking out loud. |
Revz
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2014 - 09:08 am: |
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Thought about main circuit breaker too, but that would put all the lights out.
Neutral Switch -- I looked at the diagram last night. Found the clutch switch was bad. by-passed the clutch switch with jumper...same result. ACH!
So
key switch on
neutral light on
sidestand up ---RELAY CLICK
Start switch on ---2nd RELAY CLICK
Push starter ---Sometimes solenoid engage, sometimes click
Could one of the two relays be engaging but not carrying proper voltage to solenoid, which is kind of what Andersonhdj was saying.
Loosing what little hair I have.
Thanks to all |
Andersonhdj
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2014 - 11:29 am: |
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Not so much voltage as current , yes the voltage will be down if there's not enough current , but it's the current - Amperes - that provides the drive or power to pull the solenoid in.
Could be a bad relay contact , but sounds like a bad earth / loose or poor connection.
You don't say whether this is all from cold or if it starts once she's run ?
Also just thinking aloud , check the voltage across the battery when you're attempting to start.
(Message edited by andersonhdj on June 11, 2014) |
Gabby_duck
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2014 - 06:07 pm: |
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have you done a load test on the battery.Take it to batteries plus store and have them do a test with their tester. |
Gabby_duck
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2014 - 06:23 pm: |
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read up on voltage drop test procedures or use youtube.I hope that all the conections that you removed were wire brushed both bike frame grounds and wire terminals even if they looked good to the naked eye. |
Revz
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2014 - 07:03 am: |
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Thanks all still stuck
All start attempts are cold, can't get it running.
I am going back through everything wire by wire, connection by connection
Revz |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2014 - 10:19 am: |
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That's the right approach Revz. Good luck.
If it were me, I would start with the battery terminals, next the ECM wires, next do the clutch switch, then the exposed controls on the bars, then the bundle under the steering head, |
Sparky
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2014 - 11:11 am: |
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I would try disconnecting the bike's battery entirely and try starting it with a car battery to see if that works. If that works, then I would suspect the bike battery is toast. |
Andersonhdj
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2014 - 04:31 pm: |
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Before you go ape , do a load test.
See the link attached on how to make and use a high current shunt , credit to Mike Nixon!
It will give you an idea of where you're headed before you start tearing things apart.
Once we know the current draw we can start pointing you , hopefully , in the right direction - so post your results.
Fault finding should be analysis first and corrective action after!
http://http://www.vmaxoutlaw.com/tech/current_shun t.htm
If I'm not mistaken this info was originally posted by "Satanic Mechanic" on the original "Honda SOHC 750 forum" waayyy back!
Also may help to read through this saga , it took many weeks but we eventually got it!
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/disc us.cgi?pg=next&topic=3842&page=724226 |
Harleyelf
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2014 - 04:42 pm: |
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Could be mechanical. My softtail had a warped ring gear on the clutch basket and once the starter engaged and got stuck, the only way to disengage it was to pull the battery terminal off, put it in gear, and bump it back and forth. Only happened every tenth time or so I started it, but was a serious PITA. |
Gabby_duck
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2014 - 08:50 pm: |
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I was reading somewhere else on badweather that the problem/solution end up being the starter switch. I'm not saying this is the problem on your bike but just a similar problems solution. |
Gabby_duck
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2014 - 09:00 pm: |
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If this starter was on a car in my shop I would pull the starter and bench check it. I have had intermittent starter problems like this before in the shop. |
Harleyelf
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 09:51 am: |
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Initial post says he bought a new starter. |
Revz
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 10:38 am: |
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Okay Saturday a.m.
If
kickstand up
run switch on
neutral light on
Clutch disengaged (Nothing)
Clutch engaged
Battery 12.7V
Then
Solenoid spins but not engaging
Battery drops to ~10.5V
So new battery?
First things first but..
Solenoid free spinning?
and
neutral switch? |
Andersonhdj
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 12:45 pm: |
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quote:Solenoid spins but not engaging
Battery drops to ~10.5V
This does not make sense - do you mean solenoid pulls in but the starter motor does'nt turn??
Or
the solenoid pulls in and the starter turns without turning the engine over?
The voltage goes'nt mean much without a current reading - being a new starter motor assy , it should be within limits so a voltage drop like that sounds like a bad battery but ultimately a current reading would tell us whats happening.
(Message edited by andersonhdj on June 14, 2014) |
Revz
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 04:39 pm: |
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Okay took battery to Battery Plus.
Current battery did not pass load test
New Battery now in bike
Now with clutch pulled in, bike in neutral,
the solenoid spins, but starter not engaging engine not turning over. |
Gabby_duck
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 02:18 am: |
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remove starter disassemble drive housing assembly.inspect for damage to armature gear or idle gear. damage yes then replace damage gear and armature. damage no starter clutch falure replace starter clutch. This info taken from buell service manual. I would also inspect the clutch shell sprocket {ring gear teeth}. The armature spins the solenoid is just a electrical contact {relay}on the starter but we know what you you explaining. |
Revz
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2014 - 08:24 am: |
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Sent starter back for replacement, waiting for news of shipment (6/25)
(Message edited by revz on June 25, 2014) |
Revz
| | Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2014 - 07:41 pm: |
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Rareelectric said the Bendix had gone out. I had the starter for 5 days. The Bendix is not covered by warranty. They said I could get the starter back if I paid $12 for shipping
I bought another starter. Now if the Neutral light is on and the clutch is engaged it will start just fine.
Should I be replacing the Neutral Switch? |
Gabby_duck
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2014 - 07:47 am: |
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If its working no,GO ride and enjoy.Or if you will feel better and have a spare go ahead. |
Sparkplug90
| | Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2014 - 11:39 am: |
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I just went through a similar beef with my bike. Wouldn't start, just fast clicking from the solenoid. It had a good battery, good starter, and the grounding straps were clean and strong. It was still a grounding issue. Not where the ground straps were attached, but what they were attached to. I thought I had checked it every way up and down, and it ended up being a loose bolt and missing washer under where the regulator was attached. A place that seemed irrelevant. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2014 - 12:30 pm: |
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Good information Mr. Plug. Thanks for sharing that. |
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