| Author | Message | ||
     Hybridmomentspass |
Blake, "But if the plans for success are advertised, it will all be expected. " I agree with this statement, but also see that it would benefit fans to see that they are developing new parts to help go quicker, and not put out false statements (Geoff not Jeff, and how they DIDNT gain 1.5seconds). It sucks seeing the team(s) you like do the worst out of everyone else in the pack. We just want to see progress, and if they are testing new stuff, let us know, its better to say "hey we tried XXXX and it didnt work" than "well we're keeping current stuff and hoping practice will do a lot for it" and it still doesnt work out for them. Its better to try and fail than to do the same things over and over again expecting better results (whats that insanity quote?...) | ||
| Blake |
It's a bit much to consider the building of a highly specialized one-off racing machine for a race shunned by the top professionals in any way comparable to WSBK. It's bizarre to ignore or dismiss the shackled history under Harley-Davidson Inc, then to the genuine successes (including championships) of Buell and EBR racers and then pan the lack of success in their very first season of WSBK. Richie Morris Racing/Danny Eslick/Buell 1125R: Champions Pegasus Raceteam/Harald Kitsch/EBR1190RR: Champions EBR/Amsoil/Geoff May & Danny Eslick: AMA SBK Podium contenders. No recollection of the old AMA Thunderbike racing? Who would have ever imagined that a motorcycle powered by a morbidly overweight old air-cooled tractor engine would be contesting head-to-head with Ducati's works 748R? Hal's Racing and Mike Cicotto regularly beat the Nash Ducati. That was nothing short of amazing. Trojan Horse Racing/Buell XB12R: Champions. Erik and the teams fielding his motorcycles have usually exceeded the conventional expectations in racing. Some folks bizarrely develop selective memories and lose all perspective along with any well warranted patience. I still feel like the management of the current WSBK team needs sacked. But I know nothing other than what is made public. I'm looking to the 2015 season and the end of works built superbikes in WSBK. | ||
| Trojan |
I agree with all you have said above, and of course it is great to have won championships with the 'old' Buells. We were extremely proud to have won a championship here in the UK with our XB and with help from Erik  The issue now is that EBR have moved into a much harder and higher level of racing, and whether they underestimated the difficulty or have a long term plan to gradually improve doesn't take away from their lack of results this year. As we keep saying, Joe Public really doesn't care about the plan for world domination in 5 years time if the bike is woefully slow this season. The bike,team and factory WILL be judged on this years results by the majority of the public whether we like it or not here. Even the latest press release from the team http://www.worldsbk.com/en/news/2014/Team+Hero+EBR +continuing+learning+curve is still the same old insipid vacuous nothingness unfortunately. No mention of any great leap forward or improvements from the last test. Just the usual 'We hope' and 'I am sure we will soon be more competitive' with nothing to back it up with. I really would rather see them miss a round or two, get some serious upgrades and testing done and then come back stronger, than continue to turn up at every round with no improvement just 'hoping' that things will improve soon  | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Blake, I have not forgotten the past successes, but unfortunately the reality is that those are PAST successes. The present is WSBK, a series where, so far, and yes I know it is early, they are failing miserably. How many races have they even completed? And of those, how many people did they actually pass/beat that wasn't out of competition due to crashing? It sucks, I want them to do well, but they are way above their heads on this one. I think that is why people like Trojan want to see testing/development of parts being discussed in the press statements, to give hope that they are trying. | ||
| Neutrum |
"Pegasus Raceteam/Harald Kitsch/EBR1190RR: Champions" what championship was that? national? international? can't find anything on the internet, except the video of oschersleben...wow! | ||
| 1313 |
"Pegasus Raceteam/Harald Kitsch/EBR1190RR: Champions" Look here There's likely more out there... 1313 | ||
| Court |
>>>> doesn't take away from their lack of results this year. Nor . . are the lack of results thus far any indicator of any inability to achieve great things in the future. This is exciting stuff. | ||
| Tpoppa |
The spin cycle is on. | ||
| Court |
>>>>The spin cycle is on. A statement equally accurate with most of what has been said. | ||
| Crusty |
Well, when I raced, back in the '70s, I was one of the backmarkers who made the fast guys look good. Now, if I got out on a track, I'd make the backmarkers look good. Be that as it may, despite everybody kicking EBR for not doing better than they are; I'll still give them my full support. I know that they'll succeed eventually. In the '50s, Honda went to Europe to race their bikes in the GP. When they saw just how fast the competition was, they didn't even try. They just packed up and went home. EBR has the guts to stay in the fight and get their asses kicked for now; but while they're getting whipped, they're learning. As they learn, they'll get faster. In time they'll start moving up. Then the critics will have to whine about different things that (in their opinions) EBR is doing wrong. I'm confident that they'll get better. | ||
| Blake |
Court distilled my point perfectly. The current results are unacceptable. D'uh! None of us enjoy being witness to humiliating failure. But only the weak of heart allow themselves to feel humiliated. Those of strong character simply persevere, never quit, working ever more determinedly towards achieving success. Nothing wrong with venting frustration, which is what most of us are doing in this thread, just in different ways. Anyone who knows Erik Buell knows that success (competitiveness) in WSBK will come in time. | ||
| Trojan |
In the '50s, Honda went to Europe to race their bikes in the GP. When they saw just how fast the competition was, they didn't even try. They just packed up and went home. Not quite...they went home, worked hard on what they knew needed to be improved and came back to kick everyone's arse in every classs from 50cc to 500cc for 10 years, then left again. I for one would applaud EBR if they did the same. Then we can only dream of EBR having the likes of Mike Hailwood and Jim Redman riding for them! Nor . . are the lack of results thus far any indicator of any inability to achieve great things in the future. Nor...are the lack of results so far any indication of any ability to achieve great things in the future. works both ways | ||
| Crusty |
Nor...are the lack of results so far any indication of any ability to achieve great things in the future. works both ways Starting from nothing to being able to enter WSBK in four years (and not have an asterisk because you haven't built enough motorcycles yet) is, I think, pretty freaking impressive, and an indication of what may be coming down the line. How long has Bimota been building motorcycles? | ||
| Bads1 |
Crusty but Bimota doesn't have the financial back ground that EBR has (HERO)which owns plenty of stake in the company. | ||
| Gregtonn |
...Bimota doesn't have the financial back ground that EBR has (HERO)... Exactly how much financial support does Hero allow for the EBR race effort? G | ||
| Bads1 |
When they own almost 1/2 Id say plenty. I don't think the bikes are flying out into consumers hands like hot cakes just yet. So id say HERO is throwing plenty of money at this effort along with others sponsors possibly. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
What's this nonsense also about EBR and four years? This bike started its life as an 1125 racer, which is why it isn't improving. It's already obsolete! Rocket in England | ||
| Bads1 |
Sean the Gixxer (2005) is old platform. The Honda (2008) is old. The Kawi is approaching 4 years old. Nobody really has new machinery. The Duc is probably the newest. | ||
| Crusty |
Crusty but Bimota doesn't have the financial back ground that EBR has (HERO)which owns plenty of stake in the company. EBR has gone from nothing to having a production motorcycle in four years. Bimota has been around since, what, the '80s? Yet they still can't build the minimum number of machines to be legal in SBK. And if they tried, they could have found the backing that Erik found. They just don't have the drive and vision that EBR has. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
But the Japanese manufacturers develop their bikes several times over a period of years. The 2005 and 2008 bikes etc, are not the ones raced this year. That would be current models, which are entirely different bikes, they being part of a continuing series. The EBR is essentially the 1125 racer is it not? With a bigger better engine all be it. Rocket in England | ||
| Bads1 |
The Gixxer pretty much the same. The Honda is the also. Not much really has changed. | ||
| Tpoppa |
The EBR is essentially the 1125 racer is it not? With a bigger better engine all be it. Panties bunched up in 3...2...1 | ||
| Neutrum |
actually, the 1190rx is pretty much the same as the barracuda as far as innovation goes in terms of design:   and bimota has a new ownership since about one year. they made up the bb3 from scratch except the bmw engine. so far the same as ebr with the helicon or the rs engine. | ||
| Trojan |
They just don't have the drive and vision that EBR has. That has got to be one of the best I have heard yet! Bimota have no vision compared to Buell? Where have you been for the last 40 years? Bimota have shown more innovation in their history than EBR can dream of so far. When the japanese couldn't build frames who did they turn to? Ever seen a Tesi 3D? Even with a 'normal' front end most Bimotas are much more exotic than the 1190. Bimota have came back from bankrupcy in a very short time indeed, so to be running a bike in WSb that is performing far better than the EBR 1190 (and should be leading EVO bike once homologation is complete). Remember that the 1190 had 2 seasons in is AMA before they went to WSb so they are hardly jumping in cold. Bimota developed and built the BB3 in less than a year and are on track to make the WSBK homologation quota no problem. This week MCN visited the Bimota factory and watch the first of the production BB3's come off the line, so it isn't the fiction that some here may suggest | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
2005 Gixxer 1000  2014 Gixxer 1000  Two completely different machines. Different chassis. Revised engine. Different cycle parts. Not sure what you are talking about here? Where as above, thank you, it is clearly visible the current EBR1190 is indeed very close to the Barracuda which is an older design than 2008, and obsolete, out of date, past its sell by date, whatever you prefer to call it, in WSBK development terms. Please let's not do the Honda and Kwak. They too, are both developed and very different machines as their production series continues. Rocket in England | ||
| Elvis |
If EBR were doing what Bimota is doing, those who are praising Bimota would be lambasting EBR. Bimota has no business being in this series until they can produce a production bike. How difficult is it to make 125 bikes? If they can't make 125, will they ever make 1000? What will the price be? Will the production bike even be the same bike as the race bike? What if Bimota uses this for publicity and then pulls out after they have a production bike that looks very similar to the race bike (while being mechanically very different)? I'd love to see Bimota in the series AFTER they meet the requirements to be there. Until then, they shouldn't be praised for racing a Moto-GP bike in a Superbike race. Could the EBR bikes be more competitive if they didn't actually follow the rules? Probably. (Message edited by elvis on May 21, 2014) | ||
| D_adams |
You bunch of negative nancy's from across the pond are pretty entertaining reading first thing in the morning. All this ankle biting about how EBR isn't doing well and won't get anywhere is just amazing. I'm almost of the opinion that you're from one of their competitors and are solely here to bash them. As far as not selling like hot-cakes, well, I bought one, I know of at least 10-15 others personally. It's not out of my price range and it's an AMERICAN made sportbike. I could give a rat's ass how they do in wsbk, I bought it to RIDE and ENJOY it. Brings a smile to my face when I'm riding it, so whatever to you all. | ||
| Neutrum |
"If they can't make 125, will they ever make 1000? What will the price be? Will the production bike even be the same bike as the race bike?" the same question is to ask for ebr. can they produce 1000 bike until the end of 2015? for the bimota: yes, the bb3 you can buy with a hefty price tag on...far more than the 1190rs... i think bimota will produce 125 bb3s and 250 by the end of the year but not 1000 by the end of 2015. the engagement in wsbk is a pr-stunt from francis batta, the alstare owner. a brilliant manoeuvre... negative nancies....haha, i like that... (Message edited by Neutrum on May 21, 2014) | ||
| Trojan |
I could give a rat's ass how they do in wsbk, Then you are reading the wrong thread matey If EBR were doing what Bimota is doing, those who are praising Bimota would be lambasting EBR. Wrong. EBR are being criticised for their poor results and reliability. Bimota entered the series with less testing and a much newer bike than EBR but have achieved excellent results in the EVO class that they entered. If EBR had even qualified as well as Bimota have then a lot of the comments here wouldn't have been necessary would they? Bimota has no business being in this series until they can produce a production bike. They are simply playing to the rules that DORNA set, and are applicable to all manufacturers. I'm pretty sure that if EBR benefitted from a rule change you wouldn't be complaining? Will the production bike even be the same bike as the race bike? What if Bimota uses this for publicity and then pulls out after they have a production bike that looks very similar to the race bike (while being mechanically very different)? Check the rule book. I'm sure Bimota have and will build their race bike accordingly Bimotas have always been exotic and expensive, but then so was the 1190RS wasn't it? Until then, they shouldn't be praised for racing a Moto-GP bike in a Superbike race. How is the Bimota a MotoGp bike? It uses a SUPERSTOCK spec BMW engine that is more limted than the EBr in terms of tuning. The chassis is the same as the production BB3 uses (and is currently being built!). Could the EBR bikes be more competitive if they didn't actually follow the rules? Probably. Ah so that is why the EBR's are so slow, everyone else is cheating? Come on, everyone knows the rules and what you can and can't do. if EBR are not using every inch of the latitude alowed under the rule book then somebody responsible in the team needs to lose his job, simple If they want to run as an EVO bike with limted tuning then the option was available to them before they entered. They chose to run as a full factory superbike and must accept the fact that they are not quick enough yet. | ||
| Ljm |
I am with Dean. I AM reading the wrong thread. I thought it was a Buell/EBR thread, but it is actually a Trojan, Rocket thread. "Look at me, look at me." I have two of them and I will just go ride them and sign out of here. |
