| Author | Message | ||
     Firstbuell |
Splitlath Motorsports will field Cretu & Miller on EBR at Isle of Man TT ".....This will be the first time that the EBRs have raced on the TT Mountain Course. Splitlath will field Americans Mark Miller and Brandon Cretu, both experienced TT riders. The decision to run the EBR 1190RS comes after a successful outing with both Miller and Cretu at the 2013 Macau Grand Prix where they finished 11th and 20th respectively. This represented a significant improvement for both riders in finishing positions and lap times compared to recent years, which proved the bikes pedigree to Splitlath Motorsports team owner, John Dimbylow. Both Splitlath riders will race the Rotax-powered, V-twin, EBR 1190RS in the Dainese Superbike, RL 360 Superstock, and PokerStars Senior TT races. The confidence inspiring chassis and high corner speed of the EBRs has the team aiming for good results and the riders shooting for personal bests. The team is also doubly excited to be promoting a brand new bike to the fans at the TT races......" | ||
| Rcf2 |
Great news!!!  | ||
| Reepicheep |
That's awesome for the riders and teams that want to pursue that dream. Not to be a debbie downer.... but it is hard for me personally to be TT fan and supporter though, the body count feels *so* high. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Great to see some EBR's entering the TT. Why aren't EBR / Hero behind this directly? A good showing at the TT would be more publicity than EBR / Hero could dream of in WSBK. It's all a bit arse about face if you ask me. EBR should be entering a factory backed assault on the TT with a top rider. Norton are with Cameron Donald. Rocket in England | ||
| Hootowl |
Too bad they can't seem to grasp that it isn't a rotax engine. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Well, these bikes are 1190RS's (not RX's). I believe at least the initial versions of those bikes used reworked Rotax engines, so maybe it's an accurate statement. | ||
| Trojan |
It'll be good to see them there. I hope they can run faster than the WSb bikes at the moment or they'll get mullered at the TT with it's looooooooong loooooong fast flat out stretches. It will be interesting to compare the EBR and the Norton in the Superbike and Senior races too  It would have been nice to see Splitlath hire a successful TT specialist 'name' like Norton have with Cameron Donald, although the announcement has been made so late I doubt there were any available without a ride. Most TT teams are using this weeks NW200 as their final TT preparation but Splitlath have left it too late for that even. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Not really a Norton though is it Matt; not with an Aprilia RSV4 engine. But I go back to when I road BSA's (Hornet scrambler), Triumph's and always wanted a Norton but never got one. I will be rooting for them and I for one thank you for rooting for EBR (all EBR), and your very intelligent input here. Bob T. | ||
| Gregtonn |
It would have been nice to see Splitlath hire a successful TT specialist... Where have we heard this before? Same story different series. C'mon Matt open your view a little. If everyone adhered to this policy where would new talent come from? G | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Oh but it is a Norton seeing as they made damn near all of the bike, and set up the engine without any support from Aprilia. No one around here calls a Buell a Harley after all. Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
C'mon Matt open your view a little. If everyone adhered to this policy where would new talent come from? The TT is probably the most specialist race in the world, and there are probably only 6-10 men capable of winning a race at the moment (Some of whom ONLY race at the TT). Choosing riders who are capable of running at the front of the TT is actually more importatnt that WSB simply because there is only one go at it every year. You don't get loads of practice laps and anotehr race in tqwo weeks time if you get it wrong! I know both riders have TT experience but can't help but feel that they have again been chosen on the strength of their nationality than TT winning ability? Howwever, like I said, the announcement has beenmade so late that there would be none of the established TT stars available anyway. Not really a Norton though is it Matt; not with an Aprilia RSV4 engine. There is very little left of the Aprilia engine in the Norton. Only the basic crank remains I belive. All the rest is built by Norton in house. So you may as well say by the same token that the EBR is actually a Rotax  | ||
| Hootowl |
To be fair, Buell co-designed the engine. Did Norton have a hand in the design the RSV4 engine? | ||
| Trojan |
Did Norton have a hand in the design the RSV4 engine? No, but they have substantially changed it far enough to call their own (as have Buell/EBR). In the 'good old' days many bikes from different manufacturers used to use the same engines with no negative comments about their propriety or use. Bimota have never built their own engine (other than the 500 2 stroke of course) but nobody says 'that's just a Honda/BMW/Yamaha' to them. Norton are a tiny operation even by EBR standards really, and has been built up by one man with a vision (sound familiar). I'm hoping that with a rider of the calibre of Cameron Donald on board they should perform well this year, and certainly improve on last years 18th place | ||
| Trojan |
Found this today on the Sideburn blog page This is Michael Dunlop at the 2012 NW200 race (on a Honda Fireblade). It isn't the TT course but speeds are similar, although at the TT they are held for longer..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd ed&v=F9SLUt5rc8A Now you may understand why I said that at the TT they need to be faster than they are in WSB. | ||
| Hootowl |
"No, but they have substantially changed it far enough to call their own (as have Buell/EBR)" Buell co-designed the 1125. It was theirs from day one. Norton did not co-design the RSV4, they co-opted it. | ||
| Trojan |
Here s a good compilation from recent years TT events http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe0igW8jNyU | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
The Aprilia engine is an argument no one here can win by using it against Norton. If it were an American bike you'd be arguing different. Oh hang on a minute. The current Commando's are of American origin thanks to Kenny Dreer. Oh sugar. That's put the cat among the pigeons  Rocket in England | ||
| Hootowl |
Rocket, I've got no issue with Norton using the RSV4 and modifying the crap out of it. It's a great engine. What I objected to was the assertion that it was no different than what Buell did. It absolutely is. Buell took a motor that was theirs already, switched part vendors, and began assembling them in house. If I recall correctly, Rotax only ever made a couple of parts for the 1125 engine. Most of it was farmed out to third parties because there were so few parts in common with other Rotax engines. EBR has simply taken their design, and insourced the assembly. Parts are still made by suppliers, just like when Rotax was assembling them. | ||
| Aeholton |
Maybe EBR should open a position as Director of World and European stage racing and hire Matt to fill it. They just can't seem to do anything right.  | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Actually Hoot that's not quite what Erik told to MCN. He claims to have helped in the design of the Harley engine designed and built by Rotax. After Buells demise this engine was of no use to Harley or Rotax. Erik bought 'it' from Rotax then set about a redesign or whatever you want to call it, to arrive at an EBR engine. It is the EBR engine which is said not to have any parts except the crankcase and crank blank the same as the Rotax engine. Other components are supplied by the same sources as before, supplied direct to EBR. The comparison here would show the EBR spawned from a Rotax in exactly the same way the Norton V4 is spawned from the Aprilia RSV4. Interestingly both Garner and Buell state their engines only have the crankcases and cranks as original parts - everything else being their own. There's another difference which is much more significant though. Stuart Garner has concentrated on one bike for the TT and hired a top rider to race it. Cam Don is a 2 time TT winner. The bike has been afforded everything it needs to get a good result. By good, Garner has said he'd be happy with a top ten finish, but they are going there to win. And by win he means to win either the Senior or the Superbike TT, or both. They are not going there to race for a top ten finish. The WORLDWIDE publicity this has afforded Norton is huge. Everyone is talking about Norton racing the TT. Whilst EBR's efforts are of an entirely different nature, they racing for a season and not a race week in a year, EBR must look in awe of Nortons publicity because of their commercial strategy behind their efforts to race at such an event. EBR should take a leaf out of Nortons book. Get Hero chucking more into the pot, then set about some hard racing in WSBK with a view to being at the sharp end and trying to win it. This is how Hero will break into western domestic markets with an enviable reputation where bikes like the Hastur will sell in large volumes because of their racing success. It's not like Hero can't afford it. It's not like Hero / EBR couldn't build a competitive WSBK racer. It's not like Hero can't build bikes in huge volumes. It's not like Hero can't build bikes appealing to the western domestic markets. OR IS IT? Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
Maybe EBR should open a position as Director of World and European stage racing and hire Matt to fill it. They just can't seem to do anything right. I couldn't do worse at the moment could I If I recall correctly, Rotax only ever made a couple of parts for the 1125 engine. No, Rotax built the entire 1125 engine and shipped complete engines to Buell/H-D. Only after Buell were cast sdrift did Erik buy the right s to the engine and build them himself. Although the 1190 engine is all EBR it is still based largely on the original Rotax unit. To be honest I get a bit fed up with people saying the Norton isn't a genuine Norton because it has an Aprilia based engine. Does that mean that the Buell X1/S1/M2/S3/ aren't genuine Buells because they used harley engines? So what? | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
whoa whoa whoa Trojan, now youre using sense and that just WONT be tolerated on this board... | ||
| Hootowl |
"No, Rotax built the entire 1125 engine and shipped complete engines to Buell/H-D." They assembled the engine, yes. They didn't build very many parts for it (because it doesn't share many parts with their other engines). I believe Erik said the number was three. It was always a Buell engine. Rotax just assembled it. Now someone else makes those parts, and EBR assembles them. The same group of people who bought the rights to build the engine are the same group of people who designed it in the first place. You've got to have some pretty large blinders on to make a direct comparison between EBR and Norton. Carry on. | ||
| Trojan |
I think you may be confusing the 1190 engine with teh 1125? I thought that had been designed AND built by Rotax? But then of course, why would you contract one of the worlds best engine builders/designers (Rotax), who have had huge success with their other V-Twin engines (Aprilia and KTM) amongst others, and then not let them have a say in the design or build? Maybe that is why the hydraulic clutch on the 1125 is not as good as the KTM or Aprilia? Sounds a bit like H-D employing Porsche to design the V-Rod motor and then sticking their oar in every five minutes with unnecssary changes  | ||
| Hootowl |
"I thought that had been designed AND built by Rotax?" You are incorrect. It was designed by Buell and Rotax, and assembled by Rotax from parts largely acquired from third party manufacturers. I believe Rotax made the cases and two other parts. | ||
| Rsh |
Press release from 2007 regarding the 1125 engine: Press Release: BRP-ROTAX becomes supplier of a new on-road engine for BUELL MOTORCYCLE Company * a 1125cc DOHC V-Twin, liquid-cooled powertrain, exclusively developed and produced by BRP-Rotax for Buell Gunskirchen, Austria, July 9, 2007 – BRP-Rotax, the Austrian affiliate of BRP, is pleased to announce the production start of a new 1125cc motorcycle engine. The new engine, exclusively developed for Buell, will be produced by BRP-Rotax in Gunskirchen, Austria. "BRP-Rotax is leading in developing and producing high performance engines destined to a wide range of recreational markets," said Gerd Ohrnberger, vice-president and general manager, BRP-Rotax. "We welcome the opportunity to team up with Buell on this market-leading motorcycle" he concluded. Buell joins BRP-Rotax's well-renown list of clients like BMW and Aprilia. BRP-Rotax is an affiliate of BRP, a privately-held company, who is a world leader in the design, development, manufacturing, distribution and marketing of motorized recreational vehicles. Its portfolio of brands and products includes: Ski Doo® and LynxTM snowmobiles, Sea Doo® watercraft and sport boats, Evinrude® and Johnson® outboard engines, direct injection technologies such as Evinrude E-TECTM, Can-AmTM all-terrain vehicles and roadsters, as well as Rotax® engines and karts. From Buell Press Release: "... New V-Twin Muscle The Buell 1125R Helicon engine is a new 1125cc DOHC V-Twin, the first liquid-cooled engine to power a street-legal Buell motorcycle. This compact, 72-degree engine is the result of a collaboration between Buell and BRP-Rotax, a leader in the development and manufacture of advanced engines for recreational products. The Helicon engine was designed to Buell specifications and is exclusive to Buell. It will be manufactured in Austria by BRP-Rotax. The most-powerful street-legal engine ever offered by Buell, the Helicon engine is rated at 146 crankshaft horsepower, and is designed to deliver optimized usable power, with a broad powerband across its 10500 rpm range. Its V-Twin design retains the styling and character that has always defined the Buell riding experience...." | ||
| Hootowl |
HD owned the engine. They sold it to Rotax after they shut down Buell. EBR bought it back from Rotax. http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20110222? pg=25&search_term=rotax&doc_id=-1&search_term=rota x#pg25 I'm trying to find the interview where Erik mentions the part count... | ||
| Hootowl |
http://cyclenews.uberflip.com/i/262687 Go to page 74-75 "They actually only ever made three parts on that entire engine - they machined the crankcases from raw castings that they brought in from a supplier, they machined the crankshaft out of forgings they had bought, and they machined the cylinder heads out of castings they had bought. Everything else came fully machined from an outside supply source, ready for assembly by Rotax." ~Erik Buell | ||
| Hootowl |
And I do apologize for dragging the topic off course. I had to clear that up. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
It's a Rotax engine no matter who tells you otherwise. Those that do tell otherwise have reason to covet. Some of us can see through these reasons simply because we've no reason not to. It doesn't matter to us who built the damn engine. What does matter is that we tell the truth so we don't mislead others End of argument. Rocket in England |
