| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
Lorenzo found "something" in FP3. First time this season Marquez had to settle for second in ANYTHING. Maybe there is hope? Or maybe not......Once into qualifying proper Marquez once again obliterated everyone else by 7 tenths of a second...again  New circuit and outright lap record in the process. Lorenzo ended up 6th and Pedrosa 9th! Rossi 5th though so maybe he can make a fight of it for at least one lap? Maybe Pol Espagaro will have a moto2 flashback and take himself and Marquez out at the first corner? | ||
| Jaimec |
I see Pol qualified second, and Dovi THIRD?? Helluva front row, that's for sure. Prediction? Lorenzo will lead into turn one, Marquez will track him down, pass him, and that's all she wrote. NEXT! | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Lorenzo lead into the first corner from 6th? Wow. I'd put little to no faith in him. He's had his day. He's the same as Gibernau and Stoner, and a host of others. They rise to the top for a year or three then someone comes along better, and they're history. As any rider goes there's only Rossi who remains the exception to such. DNF's and not falling off aside, If Marquez doesn't win it from Rossi, Rossi will be 2nd. Let's hope Rossi's tyre choice remains right. Rocket in England | ||
| Jaimec |
Just watch his start. He's led into turn one from the second row MANY times. Doesn't matter though. The script has already been written. As Matt said earlier, the only hope for an interesting race is for Marquez and Espargaro to carry over their Moto2 days and maybe take each other out at Turn 1. If not, the race will be once again for second place. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Marquez is proving unbeatable on the Honda this season. It's a forgone conclusion 1st and 2nd, so it's a race for 3rd and beyond. How dull a prospect is that. Rocket in England | ||
| Jaimec |
I'm not conceding second to Pedrosa. Second place is still far from certain. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Rossi on current form is favourite for 2nd, and likely the only person able to beat Marquez. As I said earlier Jamie, these next four tracks are Rossi's favourites so please don't tell me 2nd is far from certain when Rossi, if not able to beat Marquez, must be favourite for 2nd place based on facts past and present. Interesting to see how you write Rossi off, adding the snipe with Pedrosa. I know you're a glory boy for the Spaniards. Fact is, Rossi has proven he's lost non of his GOAT status. He's kicking the Spaniards arses so far, except for Marquez on the better bike. Now if Rossi were on a Honda, the Spanish armada would be well and truly sunk! Rocket in England | ||
| Gregtonn |
Maybe the rest of the field should quit and let Marquez win the next seven races and beat Doohans record. Maybe they should race and let the chips fall where they may. Or not. G | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Awe don't be a spoil sport Greg. If the rest quit and let 'him' win we wouldn't be able to go armchair racing on BadWeB - which is likely more competitive than Moto GP itself  Rocket in England | ||
| Jaimec |
"Glory boy for the Spaniards??" Not in the least. But right now the Honda is far more dialed in than the Yamaha. I'd LOVE to see Rossi finish second. Hell, I'd love it even more if he WON (in fact, I'd love to see ANYONE on the top step of the podium for a change). One comment my friend and I had at Indianapolis last summer was that we were TIRED of hearing the Spanish National Anthem. We were hoping Scot Redding would break up the monotony, but no such luck. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Rossi, a very respectable 2nd place. Lorenzo once again disappears from view immediately after the race.  | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Rossi admitted to making a mistake on the brakes making it too easy for Marquez, as his lap times were close enough to Marquez's to have put up a fight to make a great race. Rossi's 300th GP is Mugello next round - his home circuit. Can you imagine the party! Time for tickets me thinks. Rocket in England | ||
| Jaimec |
You called second place. Glad to see the "Old Man" still has plenty of fight. I'm just suffering from "Marquez fatigue." | ||
| Fast1075 |
Watch Moto3. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
You called second place. Glad to see the "Old Man" still has plenty of fight. I'm just suffering from "Marquez fatigue." Thanks Jamie. Never thought he'd lost it, and yes I am too. What we need now is Rossi to win the next three. Marquez needs a couple of DNF's. Preferably in races not won by Rossi, so Rossi can win those too. Yeah I know....... Rocket in England | ||
| Crusty |
You're not the only one who feels that way. | ||
| Jaimec |
Good to see Edwards finish in the points, even if he had to "paddle walk" his bike across the line. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Marquez needs a couple of DNF's. You're actually wishing for Marquez not to finish? Isn't that a little like grading on a curve? I thought today's race proved that he has what it takes to win consistently. How could you possibly wish for anybody not to finish a race? That's just downright mean spirited. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Marquez has the fastest bike, period. It's a Honda! Today Rossi's fastest lap time was still slower than Marquez's and Pedrosa's, and closely followed by Bautista. Rossi being the one on a Yamaha and not a Honda. The fastest lap times and finishing positions tell me Rossi is riding as fast as he possibly can. That he came 2nd, works mounted Pedrosa a lowly 5th, satellite mounted Bautista 3rd, it appears the Yamaha is no match for any Honda. Except to say, it is Rossi's talent getting him ahead. Marquez however, we have not seen the likes of such talent in Moto GP since Rossi arrived himself. If Rossi can't beat Marquez no one can. But it is not Marquez who is unbeatable to Rossi. It is that Marquez is on a Honda which makes him unbeatable by Rossi. Thus, if Marquez had a couple of DNF's, which would make up for Rossi's tyre woes in America, and Bradl punting him off lap 5 in Argentina, where Rossi could likely have got 2nd otherwise, we might see the title chase evened up a tad was my point. Not that it would make a ha'porth of difference to the eventual winner of the title this season, but it would have added a bit of drama to the otherwise forgone conclusion that Marquez is going to win it again. So no not mean spirited at all. Just leveling the playing field a bit seeing as Rossi has had two unlucky races out of five whilst Marquez has needed no luck at all to win all five. But then Marquez is on a bike which even the likes of Rossi can't catch. Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
Rossi admitted to making a mistake on the brakes making it too easy for Marquez, as his lap times were close enough to Marquez's to have put up a fight to make a great race Sadly not Rossi had a big lead and Marquez was mired in 10th place on lap 2 after running off (Twice!) and getting a poor start. If ever there was an opportunity to beat Marquez this was it, yet he powered back past multiple world champions like they were rookie club racers. Pedrosa and Lorenzo were despatched perfectly and I think Rossi would have fallen foul to the same move at the chicane if he hadn't made the mistake. The fact that Marquez then gapped Rossi by half a second on the same lap showed the gulf between him and 'the rest'. Rossi may be the 'best of the rest' right now but even I have difficulty seeing him beat Marquez at Mugello or Assen this year at least. Marquez has the fastest bike, period. It's a Honda! So does Pedrosa, Bradl and Bautista. The only difference between them is the nut holding the handlebars! | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Matt I've harboured a thought since hearing about Rossi's frame modifications and his current brace of results. Have you heard or what do you think to the possibility Rossi is receiving more development than Lorenzo? Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Matt I think you misunderstood how I communicated Rossi's words. Rossi didn't mean that he could have won. He more or less said as much. What he did say was his lap times were not so far from Marquez's that had he not made the mistake (making it more easy for Marquez to pass) he could have put up more of a fight to make a great race. As for the nut holding the bars, that is EXACTLY my point. Marquez on the Honda is too fast to be caught by Rossi. When you compare lap times Rossi is not as fast as Pedrosa either, and Bautista was close to Rossi, which tells me Marquez is a lot quicker than his Honda pals, who Rossi can beat with a slower lap time, but Rossi can't beat Marquez, the lap time difference between them being insurmountable. Rossi maybe best of the rest right now, but I see a Rossi that can beat Marquez. I also see a Marquez that can't be beaten on a Honda by even the likes of Rossi on a Yamaha even though Rossi is getting some great lap times out of the Yamaha. You only have to watch the Honda come off the corner and see how it can change direction and put power down almost at random. Give that to Marquez and no one but Rossion current form but on a Honda is gonna fight him. Rocket in England | ||
| Pwnzor |
Just leveling the playing field a bit Pedrosa is on the same bike as Marquez, no? Hayden is still in relatively the same place he was on a Ducati. Like Matt said, Rossi had a wide open door to clinch this race but he didn't. He couldn't. The bike is certainly a factor, but all the manufacturers are bound by the same rules. They are more than welcome to build an equal bike, and they have had plenty of time to do so. Level playing field, indeed. Marquez started on pole, dropped to 10th and fought his way back to the front. Then he gave back 2 seconds at the end by showboating across the finish line and still had a 1.486 second lead. Then Rossi, unlike his team mate, displayed absolutely beautiful sportsmanship... like the true champion he is. Even my wife is starting to develop a distaste for Lorenzo due to his poor attitude. | ||
| Trojan |
Have you heard or what do you think to the possibility Rossi is receiving more development than Lorenzo? Yamaha don't have a 'lead rider' or number 1 in the team. having said that....the rider leading on points tends to be their lead rider anyway and drives development. Both Lorenzo and Rossi were given the new frame to try at jerez. Rossi liked it becaue it suited his style, Lorenzo didn't and still hasn't used it. Lorenzo is being stuffed by the new Bridgestone tyres more than anything else, and seems unable (or unwilling) to adapt his riding style to suit them. Pedrosa is still recovering from surgery so maybe he could have put up more of a fight if fully fit, but I very much doubt that he can challenge Marquez for wins this year. Will Honda sack Pedrosa and hire Lorenzo? No. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Like Matt said, Rossi had a wide open door to clinch this race but he didn't. I believe what Matt meant was 'if he could', and said so to my post where I attempted to quote Rossi, which I also believe Matt misunderstood the way I meant Rossi's quote. I'll wager you this much. As true a champion Rossi is (your words), even he admits he couldn't have beaten Marquez yesterday. My wager would be, Rossi will tell the Yamaha just isn't quite good enough. Now as smart and knowledgeable as Matt is, or anyone else here is, I prefer to believe the GOAT knows better than any of us here, and the GOAT is not known to be a liar. There's also a very good clue which tell this to be true. That would be Rossi's current form and his lap times I explained earlier. I am not saying Marquez does not deserve to be where he is. That would be both churlish and stupid. All I am saying is Marquez presents an insurmountable challenge to any other racer unless another racer is on EXACTLY the same bike (as the Yamaha is NOT a level playing field  ). That racer, on current form, for me can only be Rossi. Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
The problem is that Rossi will never be on the same bike as Marquez, so needs to attack on a different front. Rossi won't leave Yamaha and certainly won't go to Honda, and Honda really don't need to think about hiring anyone else now that they have Marquez signed up for the duration. In fact they will probably retain Pedrosa as number 2 (on less money than he currently makes), as there is little point in hiring another rider at the moment. That leaves Rossi and Lorenzo at Yamaha for the forseeable future, with no answer to Marquez (who I think would be winning on the Yamaha as well to be honest), and poor old Pol Espagaro (the only rider able to get close to Marquez in Moto2) holding a factory Yamaha contract with chance of a factory ride until 2016 at the earliest. The person who is going to beat Marquez is currently not in MotoGP or even in Moto2. We need to look at the new generation of riders like Jack Miller in 3-5 years time. Until then we are looking down the barrel of Marquez domination. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I agree with you but not about Rossi. To say Marquez would win on a Yamaha is to say he is faster than Rossi, end of. Without a level playing field no one has seen the proof. I don't believe it and I'm surprised you do. I agree Marquez is a perfect replacement for Rossi's talent. I might argue his personality is less charismatic, but there's time for him to grow I suppose. Doubt he'll ever quite be the Rossi though. No matter. The point is, as great as he might be in direct comparison to Rossi, I have not seen him dominate Rossi to the point I could say he is definitely better. Qatar could have gone either way, and that race is the closest, and by far the fiercest battle we've seen. So no I don't accept Marquez is unequivocally the best rider, and therefore better than Rossi. Rossi has lost non of his skill. This is what we are seeing from him now. If they can squeeze another .5 sec out of the Yamaha, there's a chance we'll see Rossi take the fight closer to Marquez with a better chance of actually beating him. Rocket in England | ||
| Jaimec |
Rossi himself said it's NOT the bike. He pointed out how far ahead of the rest of the Honda field he finished (including Pedrosa, on the same bike as Marquez). No, the difference is Marquez. Like Casey Stoner before him, he'd win on just about anything. UNLIKE Stoner, however, I don't find myself wishing he'd just crash out. I've seen that kid several years in a row at Indianapolis in Moto2, where all of the bikes are essentially "the same." He finished so far ahead of the field in those races that I swore he was riding a 750, not a spec 600. MotoGP is going to be mighty boring for the next few years (unless Yamaha gives Pol Espargaro a Factory bike in Tech3 colors, but even then they'll have to fix some of the weaknesses that Rossi and Lorenzo have been pointing out). | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Rossi himself said it's NOT the bike. He pointed out how far ahead of the rest of the Honda field he finished I didn't catch that. Where did Rossi say such? Rocket in England | ||
| Jaimec |
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/mcn/sport/sportresul ts/motogp/2014/may/may1913-marquez-not-honda-makin g-difference/ |
