| Author | Message | ||
     Firstbuell |
The Sermon From The Mount "1984" Captain Queeg | ||
| M2typhoon |
"Motorcycle enthusiasts are passionate", Really, you have to be kidding me. They should have realized this years ago. Secondly, I absolutely despise the France's involvement in AMA, anything with two wheels in particularly. I'm a crew chief for a NASCAR asphalt modified up here in CT and we hate what they make us do to make racing "more competitive" so now a grass roots form of racing now has become a game of who's got the deepest pockets to find an advantage? SMH... France's decision to dedicate coverage to on-line content only is a good idea in some respects but, how do you entice people to watch it if there isn't any commercials for it? Online streaming is nice because it's available to everyone world wide but, it needs new viewers in the US too. I guess the only way to solve this issue is to tape delay the airing on TV after it's been streamed but then it will have to edited for TV (as demonstrated by Eslick flippin the bird)... I guess no one wins here..  | ||
| Crusty |
Sometimes you guys remind me of my Ex. No matter what I did, it was either wrong or not good enough. No matter what the AMA/DMG does, you'll look at it in a negative light. If you really want to help the sport, then do something positive. Take your family to see a race. Buy the T-shirts, get autographs on the fan walk, spend money at the concession stands, talk it up to all your friends, Convince them that they should go to a race. If they go and have a good time, then next year, they'll remember that and return, along with more friends who didn't go this year, but had a year of hearing about how good it was to get them to go. Grass roots. It really does work. | ||
| Classax |
Sorry but its a fail in every sense of the word. In order to sustain the racing you need sponsors, and right now the online only model appears to only work when its pay per view. Secondly I was at the race, particularly the Superbike race had some great RACING (passing, repassing, blocking, you know, the kind of stuff that makes for good tv) going on in the back of the field. Yet the production crew kept to parade of leaders. That may work for NASCAR and F1 but the gaps between skill and machine performance are too large in Moto Road Racing regardless of the series, to just focus only on who is leading the race. CBSS dedicated an entire 5 minutes of every broadcast as part of the contract to covering the entire field. A sponsor is more willing to buy in when he knows he has guaranteed air time. The fact is DMG does a terrible job of promoting the AMA Road Racing side of the house which makes it hard to put rears in chairs. You could've evacuated the whole of Daytona on a school bus this year, and that's AMA's BIG race. You can't keep playing with the rules to make Moto Road Racing more competitive because rider aggression and skill plays such a major role. You could run a spec motor, spec chassis, tires, ecu fuel ect right down to spec foot pegs and the front 5 of all the races would not have changed one bit, and the margin of victory would only have been slightly smaller. Jim France obviously isn't a race FAN. He make work in racing but he's not a FAN or he'd know that FANs do watch with their families (nuclear or extended) on big screens at homes or in bars or where ever. The digital age hasn't changed that only enhanced it. I was at the race with my family streaming coverage and timing boards. If I were at home I would have done the same. Actually I couldn't because my computer would have been tied up streaming the race. If you really are committed to that strategy Jim why is it you have a deal with FOX to broadcast over 8 hours a weekend of your various NASCAR classes. Don't piss on my leg and then try to tell me its raining. It makes normally reasonable person want to strike you. Its the arrogance of the incompetent that makes it so tough to support DMG and AMA. Never the less I will continue to to support the racing even if I want to strike the 'sactioning body'. (Message edited by Classax on March 20, 2014) | ||
| Hughlysses |
Well, this seems like a move in the right direction; they're apparently going to run Superbikes in the Daytona 200 next year: http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2014/Mar/140314a.ht m (Link found on ADVrider.) | ||
| Bads1 |
Can someone tell me what year the AMA made the rule that the rear slick on one side had a stripe all the way around it to show what compound they were running?? Can anyone give ma a link I can't find it. | ||
| Trojan |
Another slap in the face/nail in the coffin for AMA racing? http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/bmw-motorrad-r ace-trophy-to-recognize-best-privateer-bmw-racers/ BMW don't seem to think it worthy to include in their 'worldwide' racing scheme? | ||
| Firstbuell |
no one runs BMW in AMA Pro SBK, at all, except for a local AFM club racer from a nearby sea town | ||
| Trojan |
no one runs BMW in AMA Pro SBK neither does anyone run a competitive Kawasaki ZX10, Panigale or Honda Cb1000RR, which just goes to show how weak the series has become and how it lacks depth these days unfortunately. | ||
| Trojan |
no one runs BMW in AMA Pro SBK, at all, I noticed that there were two BMW's in the Superbike Shootout last weekend. Aren't they racing at AMA as well? The fact that BMW didn't even include the posibility of anyone running a BMW at AMA level is the story, not who is actually racing one. | ||
| Firstbuell |
Matt, just give it up with the BMW issue - the 2nd BMW listed is also a local club racer, not an AMA Pro - he was lapped ZX10s & CBRs are run by privateers, with no results a Ducati hasn't been entered for a few years the Yamaha & Suzuki efforts are factory-selected distributor teams - nothing else at that level in AMA Pro | ||
| Trojan |
nothing else at that level in AMA Pro Which is what I said, no depth. I think you miss my point about the BMW global series. They have simply not included any US series. Not because there are no entries on BMW's but that the AMA series is no longer considered a major series by a major motorcycle manufacturer like BMW. | ||
| Crusty |
That's O.K., I don't consider BMW as a viable choice when I'm purchasing a new motorcycle. | ||
| Trojan |
I don't consider BMW as a viable choice when I'm purchasing a new motorcycle. Then I think you are one of a minority, seeing as BMW were one of the few major manufacturers to actually increase their sales last year  | ||
| Crusty |
Then I think you are one of a minority, seeing as BMW were one of the few major manufacturers to actually increase their sales last year Yeah, well; I'm pretty much "Different In Every Sense" I'd own a BMW if they paid me enough. But I'd want a pretty big Enough. Remember that BMW only race at Daytona? What did they call it? The Drone-a-thon? Or was it the Battle of the Blimps? Anyway, I wish I still had my old VHS recording of that race. It would be perfect for those nights when I wake up at 2:00 AM and can't get back to sleep.I'd never get to see the end, but who cares who won, anyway? | ||
| Aeholton |
That BMW Boxer Cup series had some great racing. Much like the XR1200's. A lot of passing and very competitive. | ||
| Firstbuell |
agreed the 1st year, all that horizontal cylinder banging at Daytona was great! riders from Yurrip joined US competitors [creating geographically-backwards Match Races?] BMW marketed a Randy Mamola Signature Edition Boxer Cup bike for the street | ||
| Classax |
Then I think you are one of a minority, seeing as BMW were one of the few major manufacturers to actually increase their sales last year You must mean across the pond, because here in the US of A, KTM, EBR, Aprilla, BMW and shudder Can AM, and Ducati all saw increases overall, including the 'slow' sportbike segments over the previous years. Its the Nippon manufactures and their stale product lines who are still stagnant in sales. Only Kawasawki seems to be making ground with its Zx10 and Ninja 300. | ||
| Trojan |
You must mean across the pond, because here in the US of A, KTM, EBR, Aprilla, BMW and shudder Can AM, and Ducati all saw increases overall, With all due respect, EBR couldn't dfail to improve sales over the previous year, CAn Am hardly qualify as a motorcycle maker and Aprilia had so many bikes left over that they laid off theri workforce for 4 months. KTM made a big increase but nowhere near the figures that BMW sold last year. There is a reason why BMW are thebiggest European manufacturer after all | ||
| 2kx1 |
I thought KTM outsold BMW last year. | ||
| Classax |
With all due respect, I'm hip to that English politeness, are you calling me an idiot?  EBR couldn't dfail to improve sales over the previous year, still they were one of the few who did improve. All while only offering a machine that was $40K USD. CAn Am hardly qualify as a motorcycle maker Maybe not in the UK but here in the lower 48 and in every DMV in the country they are classed as motorcycles and require a motorcycle endorsement to operate. They are sold as such and so their sales figures, which where up from last year, are reported as such.  and Aprilia had so many bikes left over that they laid off theri workforce for 4 months. They still SOLD MORE sport bikes and scooters last year in the US than the year before and their revenue in the US was remarkably up overall despite drastic price reductions. KTM made a big increase but nowhere near the figures that BMW sold last year. There is a reason why BMW are thebiggest European manufacturer after all KTM outsold BMW overall in the USA last year period. They didn't do it by selling a ton of RC8R's but they did do it. The numbers have been published several times on this very board. With all due respect  , we generally have to be careful about making broad sweeping statements that are in fact likely only reflective of our own small view of the our portion of the world. The specific statement was "...BMW were one of the few major manufacturers to actually increase their sales last year" That may well be true in Europe but in the US the majority of makers increased their sales overall and a few even on sportbikes over the previous year. The Grom though a hit in several key markets, wasn't available in sufficient qtys to make an impact for Honda. Suzuki and Yamaha definitely are still having struggles, both under performing 2012 figures despite improved sales industry wide. How would I know? I'm a Global Supply Chain Management, Senior Consulting Manager for a major consulting firm who reports for the industry, that's how.  | ||
| Hughlysses |
(Also posted to the WSBK forum) This was posted to Larry Pegram's FB page today:  with the caption: "Was feeling down today in Italy so went to see the doctor @ValeYellow46 for some flat track therapy" Larry's in Italy too? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? | ||
| Classax |
Larry's bike has the same ECU as the WSb's. Wouldn't surprise me if he and some of his crew we were on hand for the official test day. | ||
| Riohondohank |
"Larry's bike has the same ECU as the WSb's. Wouldn't surprise me if he and some of his crew we were on hand for the official test day." And Cory's bike has a defferent ECU with no traction control and was much faster than Larry at Daytona. I sense a pattern here. Larry and Cory recently tested together at NOLA, but Cory hasn't commented to me how Larry's bike performed there. | ||
| Classax |
And Cory's bike has a defferent ECU with no traction control and was much faster than Larry at Daytona I sense a pattern here. I was told that the ECU in West's bike is the stock RX ECU which does have traction control but not all the other fancy launch and wheelie control, and data logging. The pattern I see is the same one Ducati struggled with last year. MM ECU, new Motor, and V2's lack of RPM's to run with the I4's. After almost two years they appear to have it licked. I hope the EBR learning and development curve is much shorter. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Very interesting. That seems to confirm the issues the WSBK team is having is with the electronics and not (yet) the engine. I just can't fathom why it's so difficult to tune a "new" ECU. I mean EBR undoubtedly knows what the A/F ratio and timing needs to be across the engine's RPM spread; is it that hard to make the ECU do that? I guess it must be. Then of course there are all the other features- traction control, launch control, anti-wheelie, etc. You'd have thought the team's previous experience with Ducatis would help a lot with this, but apparently not. (Message edited by Hughlysses on May 13, 2014) | ||
| Riohondohank |
All I know it that Cory told me that he is using the ECU that May and Slick used in 2012 and has no traction control. I just texted Cory about how Larry's bike did at NOLA and he said that it is running fine now. Since EBR does not have desmo valves I believe they are going to have a hard time getting the power that Ducati does because of RPM limitations. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Since EBR does not have desmo valves I believe they are going to have a hard time getting the power that Ducati does because of RPM limitations. That could turn out to be the ultimate limit, but I've read some articles that suggest that desmodromic valves are more of a tradition/sales feature for Ducati than a technical necessity. I guess we'll find out. The thing is that, knowing the technical talent EBR has in-house, they HAD to know if their engine is at least potentially capable of being competitive in WSBK before they put an 1190RX in a shipping container to go to Italy. I figure either they've got more quite a bit more power up their sleeve, or they're gathering design data for a new engine for next year that can compete at that level. | ||
| Riohondohank |
Desmo might not be necessary for a street bike, but for racing at the WSBK level it might be an entirely different thing. You can only operate valves at a certain rate with springs, partically when you are talking about the larger valves required on a 1200 cc twin as opposed to a 1000 cc 4. I would bet that the WSBK Ducatis are turning lot more R's than the EBS's. It is simple math, more RPM = more air/fuel = more HP. You can do all the timing and fuel/air mapping adjustments you want, but if the other guy is pumping more air he has a big advantage. There is a reason that F1 cars use pnumatic operated valves instead of springs. | ||
| Hootowl |
I think piston speed is the limiting factor on a long stroke engine like the 1190, and not so much the valves. Ducati has had desmo valves for ages, and yet to gain RPM with their new engine, they shortened the stoke. |
