| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
BMW didn't do squat it's first years - BMW were fast from day one, they just hadproblems with electrics that stopped them winning. I don't remember them EVER missing Superpole (or the top 20 as it was then probably) BMW probably had too much power for their in house electronics in the first seasdon or two, so just needed to harness it in order to run at the front. Somehow the EBR seems to be lacking a lot of speed/power, and no amount of tinkering with other stuff is going to address that until they get more bhp. Imola isn't a particularly fast track, without long straights really. if this was Monza or Silverstone it would be even worse with a speed deficit of nearly 40kph even here. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Somehow the EBR seems to be lacking a lot of speed/power, and no amount of tinkering with other stuff is going to address that until they get more bhp. It does seem to be that. If it were otherwise the new front fork and caliper would have shown at least some relative improvement. Matt- they are running a mandated "spec" electronics package, correct? Do you think it's possible they're having huge difficulty setting it up for the EBR engine? I wish they'd give May his AMA Superbike from last year just so he could do a comparison lap. I swear I think he'd be MUCH faster on it. | ||
| Jscott |
Aaron is outside of the 107% needed for qualifying currently. Hopefully they can find something in the next couple of sessions. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Photo just posted to Facebook:  BAM again? Jens!!!! They need help!!!!  | ||
| Rsh |
BMW didn't do squat it's first years - What does comparing BMW to EBR have to do with anything, other than you don't know what your talking about. These are the final standings for BMW in 2009 with Corser and Xaus. Corser finished the season 13th and Xaus in 17th 13 Corser BMW 8 22 9 9 Ret 15 10 10 Ret DNS 15 17 Ret 22 Ret 20 5 10 8 6 11 Ret 9 10 Ret 9 96 17 Xaus BMW 19 11 13 10 13 16 14 11 7 9 Ret Ret 21 16 14 16 15 9 Ret DNS 12 13 11 12 8 Ret 74 2009 manufacturer standings 1 Ducati 1 2 2 2 1 1 2 1 1 2 1 1 3 2 2 2 1 1 1 3 2 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 534 2 Yamaha 10 1 1 1 7 2 1 6 6 1 3 9 1 1 1 7 1 1 18 1 1 2 4 5 1 4 1 5 505 3 Honda 5 3 5 4 5 5 3 2 3 3 4 3 2 3 7 1 4 2 2 4 3 1 5 6 5 3 2 3 431 4 Aprilia 11 12 3 3 8 8 5 Ret 11 5 5 5 6 4 9 10 2 21 1 2 5 4 2 3 3 2 3 6 329 5 Suzuki 2 6 16 6 3 7 12 9 4 17 8 8 12 12 6 11 17 13 14 20 12 10 13 14 7 6 Ret 10 173 6 BMW 8 11 9 9 13 15 10 10 7 9 22 18 15 16 14 16 15 9 5 10 8 6 11 13 9 10 8 9 141 7 Kawasaki 18 17 14 16 10 17 17 14 10 13 13 11 7 11 16 17 18 10 10 16 16 13 10 15 13 15 11 12 76 | ||
| Vagelis46 |
BMW was never over 6sec slower per lap than the fastest WSBK bike in its 1st year ............EBR bikes are over 5 sec slower per lap than the fastest bike, in every session and ..... EBR has overestimated their capabilities... The 1190 RX is looking bad now, and definately a lot of people that were considering buying it, will choose another motorcycle..... Any way we see it, EBR is doing bad, very bad, both in racing and in the marketing department...... Unless Erik (and HERO) is OK with his bike being 7sec slower per lap than the top WSBK motorcycle.. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Press release on today's efforts: http://us5.campaign-archive2.com/?u=b1964295d7f155 fa8c439a200&id=fbbe06732b They do say the afternoon practice session was cut short by 13 minutes due to a fire in an adjacent park. That can't have helped them any. (Message edited by Hughlysses on May 09, 2014) | ||
| Rsh |
2nd practice results: 1. Jonathan Rea GBR PATA Honda World Superbike CBR1000RR 1m 48.147s 2. Tom Sykes GBR Kawasaki Racing Team ZX-10R 1m 48.187s 3. Marco Melandri ITA Aprilia Racing Team RSV4 1m 48.261s 4. Sylvain Guintoli FRA Aprilia Racing Team RSV4 1m 48.323s 5. Davide Giugliano ITA Ducati Superbike Team 1199 Panigale R 1m 48.574s 6. Chaz Davies GBR Ducati Superbike Team 1199 Panigale R 1m 48.592s 7. Leon Haslam GBR PATA Honda World Superbike CBR1000RR 1m 48.999s 8. Eugene Laverty IRL Voltcom Crescent Suzuki GSX-R1000 1m 49.259s 9. Loris Baz FRA Kawasaki Racing Team ZX-10R 1m 49.600s 10. Leon Camier GBR BMW Motorrad Italia SBK S1000RR 1m 49.610s (E) 11. Alex Lowes GBR Voltcom Crescent Suzuki GSX-R1000 1m 49.710s 12. Ivan Goi ITA BARNI Racing Team 1199 Panigale R 1m 49.920s (E) 13. Niccolo Canepa ITA Althea Racing 1199 Panigale R 1m 50.015s (E) 14. David Salom ESP Kawasaki Racing Team ZX-10R 1m 50.211s (E) 15. Ayrton Badovini ITA Team Bimota Alstare BB3 1m 50.228s (E) 16. Christian Iddon GBR Team Bimota Alstare BB3 1m 50.609s (E) 17. Toni Elias ESP Red Devils Roma RSV4 1m 50.699s 18. Luca Scassa ITA Team Pedercini ZX-10R 1m 50.926s (E) 19. Claudio Corti ITA MV Agusta RC-Yakhnich M. F4RR 1m 51.034s 20. Alessandro Andreozzi ITA Team Pedercini ZX-10R 1m 51.544s (E) 21. Jeremy Guarnoni FRA MRS Kawasaki ZX-10R 1m 51.572s (E) 22. Sheridan Morais RSA IRON BRAIN Grillini Kawasaki ZX-10R 1m 51.707s (E) 23. Michel Fabrizio ITA IRON BRAIN Grillini Kawasaki ZX-10R 1m 52.042s (E) 24. Fabien Foret FRA MAHI Racing Team India ZX-10R 1m 52.070s (E) 25. Imre Toth HUN BMW Team Toth S1000RR 1m 52.445s 26. Geoff May USA Team Hero EBR 1190RX 1m 54.669s 27. Peter Sebestyen HUN BMW Team Toth S1000RR 1m 55.102s (E) 28. Aaron Yates USA Team Hero EBR 1190RX 1m 56.225s (Message edited by rsh on May 09, 2014) | ||
| Reepicheep |
All I ever heard them say was that they wanted to race WSBK and learn from the experience. Ironically, the critics seem to be the ones that demand they wait to enter until they think they can win. Most of the fans just think it's awesome that they are running the series, and optimistic that learning while running will progress a company like EBR much faster than trying to make up tests they think will be representative. If they are oiling up the track with blown motors, or getting in the way of leaders, then bitch away. If not, then nobody is asking you to declare the first year EBR effort as world beating. But I don't understand the desire to constantly tear them down for wanting to race and learn in the series. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
The position is no problem , as much as the gap in seconds to the top... Come on ...7 secs ? | ||
| Tpoppa |
I would love to see EBR's list of goals before the season started. I doubt they planned on competing for the championship, but I'd venture a guess that they thought they'd have a shot at the top ten. Certainly not 7 seconds off the pace. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I coach a 3rd 4th grade Lacrosse team. It is our first year fielding team at this age group, which means that none of our 3rd and 4th grade team players have every touched a stick. Nearly all the teams we play have had the 3rd/4th grade team for a few years now. That means that best case, half the players we face (and the older half) are kids with at least one years experience playing. We loose pretty much every game (we beat one team in our same situation, and tied another). Teams that have had an established k-2 program beat us, on average, by about 15 points. We play anyway, I have a lot of fun, the kids have a lot of fun. Also, next year, because we did the painful learning this year, half my kids will then have a years worth of experience, and we will do MUCH better against our peers. We could have decided "we won't actually field a team this year, we will just practice all year long, and wait until next year to actually start playing". What would that have done? Well, it would not have made us better this year. Last place is still better than did not start. It would likely have not made us better next year, our greatest strides as a team have been after getting our asses kicked by a really great competitor. We would have progressed slower. It would have possibly satisfied the vain who only want to play if they can be the best. It would also have placated the professional critics, there is nothing for people to criticize. But it feels to me like it would have been a cowardly decision, to not play because you can't win. And it feels like a slower path to becoming a great team. 4 years ago, this company was being actively and aggressively dismantled. Now they are building a bike that can qualify for WSBK. *&*&^& awesome in my book. If they haven't progressed in 4 years, then lob all the stones you want, but if somebody wants to keep paying to keep a team racing because it gives them pleasure and benefit to do so, and so long as that team is not disrupting the front runners, rock on! | ||
| Court |
>>>>EBR has overestimated their capabilities... Statements like that are what make the internet the internet. Complete utter speculation . . . . pulling something out of your ass and asserting it as fact. I''ve had no conversations with a single soul at EBR about their strategy or their plan. But . . . I happened to know about 70 of the folks there very well and could not be more thrilled about what they are doing. Let me distinguish my comments by adding that is PURELY my personal opinion. There's more bullshit in the internet than in a cattle pen at the moment . . with regard to EBR racing. | ||
| Hughlysses |
According to this article at RRW, today's afternoon practice session was cut short due to a broken drainage cover at turn 4: http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/hondas-rea-fas test-in-shortened-world-superbike-free-practice-tw o-at-imola/ Lets hope they find another second or two tomorrow. | ||
| Court |
Nice to see the EBR getting 25% of the photos on the opening page of that article. | ||
| V74 |
quite a few asking "why are EBR racing in wsbk when the bike is so outclassed ? " first got to be to develop the bike and second for the sheer thrill and fun of being there , wouldn't any of us do the same if given the opportunity even with a bike thats outclassed, I would like a shot. also what wins on a sunday sells on a monday , no , had a bike of one sort or another for over 30 years so mingled with like minded people for same number of years and was a manager of a motorcycle shop and did bike sales for a while 15 years ago and never met anyone who bought a bike because it won a race , price, practically , performance , brand loyalty all played a part in what people bought but not winning a race , group tests in motorcycle magazines (MCN in the UK)and half a bhp more than another comparable bike is what sold.if someone is going to get a EBR bike I doubt very much that the results in wsbk will sway them. GO EBR AND ENJOY RACING ON THE WORLD STAGE . | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
if someone is going to get a EBR bike I doubt very much that the results in wsbk will sway them. Those already 'swayed' could be put off by the disappointing results in WSBK is more the point I believe. Most certainly in the UK Euro markets anyway. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Statements like that are what make the internet the internet. Complete utter speculation . . . . pulling something out of your ass and asserting it as fact. I''ve had no conversations with a single soul at EBR about their strategy or their plan. But . . . I happened to know about 70 of the folks there very well and could not be more thrilled about what they are doing. Let me distinguish my comments by adding that is PURELY my personal opinion. There's more bullshit in the internet than in a cattle pen at the moment . . with regard to EBR racing. I'm confused. If you're not talking to 70 of the folks you know at EBR, how do you know what's said on the Internet is bullshit?  Rocket in England | ||
| V74 |
new markets like UK and euro may be put off but anyone from lets say badweb thats set their heart on one will still buy one , that's called brand loyalty, hey rocket what race did buell win that made you buy your buell? | ||
| Hughlysses |
3rd and 4th free practice rounds completed. May and Yates improved nearly 2 seconds/lap by the third round but there is still no improvement relative to the rest of the field. 4th round times were worse than 3rd round; no idea why.  | ||
| Vagelis46 |
For FP3 they might have used the qualifying tires to have a shot at Superpole2 ........ | ||
| Classax |
It seems to me they are improved in terms of gap to the front, running 105% of the leaders, but lack of top end speed is KILLING them. "My kingdom for 30kph more". Slow progress but progress none the less. I can't imagine anyone who follows motor sports of any kind being naive enough to think that what won Sunday is remotely close to what they can buy on Mondays. Its like buying a kitten after seeing a lion. The bandwagon generally doesn't have the cash to spend and the semi racers are buying race potential, and most of those guys are smart enough to know its the Indian not the arrow that wins moto racing. A bike that suits your riding style is always better than the latest greatest. its great when they are both one and the same. | ||
| Duggram |
If you are on Videopass is your image out of focus? I could see Geoff go by but it was really hard to make out the 99. (Message edited by duggram on May 10, 2014) | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Duggram, The Videopass on www.worldsbk.com , shows Superpoles 1 & 2 , and the races for every round..... Since EBR have not qualified for any Superpoles yet , there is no action on camera for EBR yet....unfortunately......(at least I have not seen any) ..... which is really sad.... we have not seen a close shot of any EBR bike making a single turn .... | ||
| Duggram |
Vagelis, Thank you for your reply but I don't understand it. I was asking if any one else's picture was out of focus. I use the Videopass on both WSBK and MotoGP. Great stuff for a fan. Not only the on track sessions but the interviews and technical segments. BTW I did get it figured out on what I thought was May, it was Canape #59 on the Panigale. That's how out of focus the picture was. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
hey rocket what race did buell win that made you buy your buell? Buell were not in racing when I bought my Streetfighter! But EBR are in racing today, so if I were looking to buy a race rep my short list would be, MV 800 or F4 1000, or Aprilia RSV4. It would not include an EBR. The 1190 is no doubt a great bike but it is expensive compared to others. More likely to be not as reliable as the Italians. Will drop in value like a rather large rock. And whilst it's not a bad looking bike, it's pretty plain looking when sat next to the Italian exotica. Rocket in England | ||
| Stevel |
I am dismayed at EBR's results. 7.4 seconds off of pole time is really poor. These results certainly do not help publicize the brand or encourage sales. The good news is that at Imola, EBR is not last. A guy named Peter Sebestyen on a BMW owns that spot, but he probably fell off! As for the reason I own 2 Buells is the challenge of making them competitive. Building motors is my hobby. I have many successful motors behind me. The Helicon is my greatest challenge to date. In 1974 I build a Kawasaki Z900 café racer air cooled with a 2 valve head and made 137 HP at the rear wheel. On paper, the Helicon engine should make a lot more power, but it doesn't. It needs a new cylinder and head design. I sincerely hope EBR is doing that now and those new parts must be used on the RX street bike as well. | ||
| V74 |
going on looks none of the current crop of superbikes light my fire , probably the most is the 1199 followed by the 1190 but both would need a good paint job , now a 916/996/998 foggy or ben bostrom rep is a different matter altogether, sex on wheels. | ||
| Classax |
Rocket likely hasn't ridden the F3 800, pretty but not very well sorted. RSV4 awesome. My question is unless you're planning to race and assessing a machine's baseline potential as a racer using WSb as a gauge of said potential, with almost no exceptions the machines in WSb have almost nothing in common with what you can buy. There is no correlation. All bikes loose value quickly. If you're buying a motorcycle to wear as your favorite team jersey, pose away. Personally I prefer to buy and ride what suits me ergonomically,economically, riding and life styles. I've always felt a motorcycle is best viewed from the cockpit. Johnny Rea is killing! Great racing.Am I correct in seeing May didn't start race 1 and Yates only did 7 laps before retiring. Not good. We have to at least finish race distances guys. Get it together for race 2. Go EBR! | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Class, you have a habit of speaking as if those things you champion are exclusive to you and EBR's. No I haven't ridden the MV800 yet. It has received rave reviews in MCN on and off track so I'm at odds to hear you say it's not very well sorted. I think you're embellishing an old MV story of poor fueling when the F4 1000 was introduced. Why if so would you have the need to do so I wonder. You state there's no correlation to bikes we buy and those raced unless we intend to race them ourselves. You know this is not true. Whilst the bikes might have minor and major differences between showroom and track, it can only take a paint job to sell a race replica. And in buying a race replica there is every chance such a bike can fit a person ergonomically, economically, and fit their riding and lifestyles also whether they want to pose or not. Such are not exclusive attributes to your argument. Lastly, not all bikes lose value quickly. The Italian exotica being amongst the best for holding value. Rocket in England |
