| Author | Message | ||
     Rocket_in_uk |
All I know is I like Erik Buell, his bikes, the employees working for him and commend him and the team for the effort, drive and determination they are putting into Fixed it for ya. Unfortunately the EBR effort thus far ridicules the prestige of the series. Bikes this uncompetitive shouldn't be allowed to continue. Much in the way racehorses are pulled up when too far back. EBR's presence in the series, there's whispers in racing circles they won't see July. Breakdowns which bring racing to a standstill at the expense of other teams efforts soon bring out the long knives. Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
EBR's presence in the series, there's whispers in racing circles they won't see July. Breakdowns which bring racing to a standstill at the expense of other teams efforts soon bring out the long knives. I hadn't heard that, but I'm sure they would have had a stiff talking to after causing the red flags on Sunday. Maybe they were told by the organisers not to race in race 2 if they couldn't identify the problem immediately? | ||
| Classax |
Fixed it for ya. Unfortunately the EBR effort thus far ridicules the prestige of the series. Bikes this uncompetitive shouldn't be allowed to continue. Much in the way racehorses are pulled up when too far back. EBR's presence in the series, there's whispers in racing circles they won't see July. Breakdowns which bring racing to a standstill at the expense of other teams efforts soon bring out the long knives. I hadn't heard that, but I'm sure they would have had a stiff talking to after causing the red flags on Sunday. Maybe they were told by the organisers not to race in race 2 if they couldn't identify the problem immediately?  | ||
| Classax |
I always want the best to win. That's what racing proves. Who's the best. "I have observed something else under the sun. The fastest runner doesn't always win the race, and the strongest warrior doesn't always win the battle. The wise sometimes go hungry, and the skillful are not necessarily wealthy. And those who are educated don't always lead successful lives. It is all decided by chance, by being in the right place at the right time I found this to be both humbling and frustrating to my soul" ERV Ecc9:11-12~ King Solomon I think Rea may have what it takes to challenge Tom for the crown, it may well be his time if he can find a little chance here and there. I'm really surprised, pleasantly of course, by the progress Ducati has made with the 1199 since last year, even the EVO bikes are showing well. | ||
| Trojan |
Please explain how this is trolling rather than polite and intelligent criticism of a team that we all love but is simply not doing very well on the world stage? I'm pretty sure if they were winning we'd have a glut of whooping and hollering on here wouldn't we? It isn't a one way street  I understood trolling to be something else entirely (unless you have very delicate sensibilities of course). | ||
| Court |
I don't think it's trolling at all. My, understandably, sole concern is that, even though you are fluent in racing you've demonstrated no vision or ability to see the future. My life is solving problems. I charge a lot to help folks, not unlike yourself, mired in negative situations, find, execute and celebrate solutions. Several here, yourself among their number are quick to point out the shortcomings, most of which I see and concur with. We part ways in that you see them as a death nell, I see them as a starting line. WSBK racing is not easy and, even with tons of funding, requires concerted effort. You also make, absent a shred of evidence or facts, some bold leaps with regard to predicting the future. Some of your assumptions, say the ones about EBR having no personnel in Italy, are patently inaccurate. You base flawed conclusions on them. No what? I can't do much better. But where you see partly cloudy, I see partly sunny. I know the payers, the plan and how they have, during the brief 30+ years I've been intimately involved in Buell dealings, dealt with these challenges. I suspect . . .based on absolutely not a frickin' thing but my gut instinct that the Elves at EBR are going to do very well. I've no more, but as many facts, as you but I'm voting on The Elves. Call me a sucker for tradition but the bet's paid off for me over the years. Carry on with the wild speculation. Court | ||
| Trojan |
My, understandably, sole concern is that, even though you are fluent in racing you've demonstrated no vision or ability to see the future. WSB racing is results based on what happens NOW, not in 2, 3 or 5 years time. If EBR are competitive then that will of course be great. At the moment we can only judge them against current opposition and current results. WSBK racing is not easy and, even with tons of funding, requires concerted effort. The difficulty is not an argument. It is exactly the same for all participants regardless of team name. You also make, absent a shred of evidence or facts, some bold leaps with regard to predicting the future. Some of your assumptions, say the ones about EBR having no personnel in Italy, are patently inaccurate. I have never stated there were no EBR personnel in Italy. Iasked the questionif there were but nobody has yet given a definitive answer (although you drop hints as usual). I based a question on the fact that nobody seemed to know the correct oil level and they suffered two engine failures at Assen with apparently no idea of the cause. So I repeat the question: Are there EBR personnel permanently attached to the race team in Italy? Call me a sucker for tradition but the bet's paid off for me over the years. I'm a sucker for tradition too, but I wouldn't want to race a Norton (even the TT bike) in WSB right now because it swouldn't be competitive. IS it too much to question whether they may have bitten off too much this time? So far we have no reply to the contrary and can only judge weekend by weekend based on results, mistakes or improvements on track. | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
This is a first year effort on a bike that's like three weeks old. Expecting them to "do well" is pushing it. Jdugger (the wizard of whoa) called this one- he said the RS engine is barely good enough for AMA, unless the RS is much improved it won't be competative in WSB at all. He was right, so far. "This isn't a EBR factory team or effort. It's Bardi running a team with EBR bikes and EBR doing a token shouty bit down the phone is all." Let's face it kids, Buells are WIERD. You can't take a guy running hondasakis last season, and for the bast 10 years, give him Buells that are 2 months old, and expect a competative team. Frankly, with the big deal Erik made about WSB being his goal since the 80's, I'm amazed he's not more personally involved....there's not even a US EBR factory team on the ground. That's inconcievable to me. They should have run Superstock or EVO if they weren't going to personally supervise the effort with experienced Buell/EBR people. I hate to say it, but who cares about satellite teams? Nobody. I'm certainly not going to salivate and constantly argue about it. I'm pretty dissapointed about it. If EBR's too busy developing the business, and that's a VERY valid reason, then they should have waited to do this. "People don't base what they buy on racing." What wins on Sunday sells on Monday. That's why Buell "sportbikes" never caught on with sportbike riders- they couldn't win races. Inarguable fact. The 1125 (which I ride) won it's championchip, but the rules were pitched in it's favor, killing it's rep. The final coffin nail. Buell/EBR is probably the only sportbike manufacturer with no credible roadrace pedigree. Thundertwin what? Nobody cares. I'm mister liter-twin, and even I don't care. Squids with deep pockets and people overseas could give less of a crap. Until they're making top 3 finishes in their own series (AMA) or at least competative...even competant....in WSB, this won't change. Which brings me back to this seemingly thrown together effort. If you don't have time to do this yourself, then DON'T DO IT. WSB is not the place to test, or fall down. "DOWN ON POWER" Of course it's the electronics. They're haveing to figure out electronics for a brand new engine design. On top of that, they're having to make changes to the exhaust on the fly, which means they have to change the fuelling also....which brings me back to my first point, a newborn bike isn't going to be competative. Awesome they're racing it though! Oh wait, they're not, they leased that out to ppl with no Buell experience. Smart move, that. I keep going back to the first two points, don't I? Yeah it's going to be good race development, but they could have done that in superstock for a few seasons. This whole thing just looks like bad planning, as much as I hate to say it. I want the team to do well, but until this team makeup issue is corrected....seriously....it's just a satellite team.... I hope they keep at it, maybe in a few years, with a REAL factory team, they'll be competant. This is just dissapointing. but I don't think we have a bad bike, and I'm not really surprised by the engine failures. They better get some factory talent working on that though, this "We don't send them to Wisconsin" crap isn't gonna cut it long term. EBR's gotta figure this out and correct it QUICK. Just an objective look at things- Go EBR!!! | ||
| Classax |
Can you honestly look back through the conversations and say that the SOME of these criticisms have been polite or intelligent. There is a continued theme of insulting rather than assessing the EBR team by some here. Selective memory concerning the facts that Superstock engines are NOT showroom engines which is were EBR has had to start and still made the grid, last but still on the grid. Now despite the fact that no team has ever been asked to not compete in WSb and other makes have cause engine failure red flags, EBR is "ridiculing the prestige of the series". Really?!?! And now unfounded speculation that the team was asked not to race or won't survive until mid season. I get it some of you live under a constant cloud of gloom so you have to paint the whole world gray. There are a whole lot of hard working guys and gals who are giving it their best shot,(which may or may not be good enough to make the grid,) and we can all live without the pretentious elitist malarkey of those who feel its a waste of time to let them take their shot. EBR may go up down in flames or more accurately up in smoke in WSb , but as long as they have the cash to make the races, since WSb says 107.001% of the lead is too slow to compete and EBR has a bike that is quicker than that, who are you or anyone else to tell them they shouldn't. Don't like it don't watch it. Like it but don't like what you see, offer ways to improve, don't understand it ask questions, but you can miss us with the constant pompous dribble, incorrect generalities, insulting commentary and rumor milling. The preceding all stated with the greatest respects and in the best possible taste. Well said Sir Wadsalot. That is the difference between a critque and criticism. We could use so much more of the former, and have had enough of the latter. (Message edited by Classax on May 01, 2014) (Message edited by Classax on May 01, 2014) | ||
| Court |
>>>>WSB racing is results based on what happens NOW, not in 2, 3 or 5 years time. Yeah . .. I know what you mean. My classroom is two floors above a cyclotron a colleague left in the basement in the early 40's . . before he got scared of NYC getting bombed and moved his experiment under a stadium in Chicago. He failed in nearly every attempt he made while here and I don't think, when he sneaked away from his home country, he brought ANY of his team. If you have no vision you have no future. | ||
| Trojan |
pretentious elitist malarkey of those who feel its a waste of time to let them take their shot. ooo-er missus, calm down calm down  There is nothing elitist in expecting a WSB team to compete at WSB level when they enter. Even being comparable to MV, BMW or at least the EVO teams would be good enough and not too much to ask surely? I don't think it is a waste of time to take their shot, bt it is a waste fo time if they are doing it before they are ready to do so. If they had spent this year developing the bike to WSB regs then entered next year I would have more faith in the project. To enter and THEN later realise that you need an extra fuel tank, can't meet the noise regs, then overfill the oil tank isn't the most professional start to a world championship season, adn that doesn't include the embarrassing blow ups at Assen. Superstock engines are NOT showroom engines Who said they were. They are Superstock engines with limited tuning. if EBR entered with even less tuning than that then WHAT WERE THEY THINKING THE RESULT WOULD BE! Those of us with longer memories have seen Buell race efforts ridiculed in the international press before because of poor pit stops, sticky tape and other reasons, and I for one don't want to see that criticism repeated outside of this forum, which it surely will be if the current form continues unfortunately. This is a Buell enthusiasts forum so surely we are allowed to be critical of our team? If you have no vision you have no future. I'm pretty sure Kawasaki, Honda, Bimota, MV, Aprilia, Ducati all have vision and plan their future too. It isn't a monopoly that Erik Buell owns. KTM were pretty much the closest oposition that EBR had in AMA racing with a twin cylinder bike. There is a very good reaason that KTM don't enter WSB adn maybe EBR have now discovered why. Vision and planning for the future can sometimes include NOT doing something rather than doing something badly. | ||
| Classax |
Ok let me try this again. The Superstock and EVO classes use components in the engines and other places that are not showroom fair. Without all these Corsa bits they would never make the grid in Superstock or EVO. EBR desired to show the world their showroom kit is good enough that it could even compete in WSb. That's a statement few other MFg's would assert, much less back back up. Their current showroom product is barely making the grid and not doing well in the races. EVO and Superstock would not have allowed the development of new parts(and gain the necessary press in the case of superstock) hence the decision to go full factory. That way when the spec is locked down to all EVO in 2015 they have developed machine that is competitive and chock full of racebred kit bone stock with no need for additional Corsa internals. This approach is a painful but ultimately the best strategy for the quickest return on investment. The powers that be have repeatedly said that but we seem to be shocked repeatedly when it occurs. I'm all for honest assessments of the teams' performance and for that, sometimes harsh words are needed to convey harsh realities. I agree EBR has troubles and we don't want to relive the troubles of the past either. I'm sure their is a way to convey that without insulting the efforts or the folks who are in the trenches. For the record according to FIM WSb level performance is lapping within 107% of the leaders pace and machinery compliant to the rules. So one can't say they're not competing at a WSb level because they are. The worst team in any professional sport is still a professional whatever... Is there room for improvement? Heck yea! They've proven they are good enough to make the grid, and are shaky about finishing races. The conversation should be couched around how to move forward not accusations that they aren't good enough to be where they already are. Deal?!? | ||
| Wymaen |
Who becomes the whipping boy if/when EBR is no longer at the bottom of the pile? Does some other team get to be judged by forum warriors for their (so say some) ill-prepared, embarrassing, last-place performance? Remove enough of the back markers, and even the top step of the podium can be occupied by the rider with the slowest lap ridden. (Message edited by wymaen on May 01, 2014) | ||
| Fast1075 |
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| Trojan |
EBR desired to show the world their showroom kit is good enough that it could even compete in WSb. maybe someone should have considered that WSb is not the place to show th eworld your stock bike. All that does is show the world that it isn't fast enough to compete in WSB. How many un-Buell WSB watchers even knwo that? They see a full factory entry with a rich sponsor struggling to finish a race let alone score a result. Is that good for EBR? No it isn't. Take a look at Ducati forums last year when the Panigale was struggling in WSB. Was it full of people saying what abrave effort it was and we should all be cheering? No, it was full of people saying that it simly wasn't good enough. There are two sayings in English that seem to apply here.... If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. Don't wash your dirty linen in public (in other words make sure your bike is ready before entering and having to make excuses for the performance). I'm all for honest assessments of the teams' performance and for that, sometimes harsh words are needed to convey harsh realities. That is what I have always given, an honest assesment. These are harsh times and harsh words are required. Who becomes the whipping boy if/when EBR is no longer at the bottom of the pile? Whoever deserves it for not competing at the required level for whatever reason. That in the past has been Honda, Kawasaki and Ducati, Pertronas, Benelli, Suzuki and others. if you can't stand the heat.... | ||
| Wymaen |
***Whoever deserves it for not competing at the required level for whatever reason. That in the past has been Honda, Kawasaki and Ducati, Pertronas, Benelli, Suzuki and others.*** Sure glad all of those manufacturers followed your advice and threw in the towel... You're missing my point...someone always has to come last, right? Because they are last doesn't mean they do not deserve to compete, nor does it mean they are incapable at competing at a professional level. It simply means that they are not competing at the same level as the top tier. The very existence of the top tier, though, is dependent upon the fact that not everyone is the number one team- that's what makes it competition! I'm not saying that riding around in last is a good plan, an entertaining watch, or an especially strong marketing strategy. I am saying, however, that those who give EBR zero credit for their fledgling effort and offer criticism that is far more reactionary and harsh than constructive might want to at least give EBR a chance to fail long enough to improve. By your logic, Trojan, anyone who isn't in first should get out of the kitchen. That's simply a horseshit way to look at competition. Whether you actually meant that or not, that's what your comments here seem to point to- that since EBR hasn't won every race they've entered, they should give up because they aren't capable of doing things right. Never mind that they need to find out what doesn't work to know what does work, never mind that the race team hasn't shared their game plan with the internet, never mind that the first bikes rolled off the showroom floors what, sixty days ago? That's not good enough for some, but I'm happy to see Erik & Co. making steps in the right direction. (Message edited by wymaen on May 01, 2014) (Message edited by wymaen on May 01, 2014) | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Classax , SUPERSTOCK ....... ARE showroom engines ! http://www.fim-live.com/fileadmin/alfresco/2014_SB K_SS_SST_HOMOLOGATIONS-1.pdf And YES , the manufacturer can make upgrades to its motorcycle even SUPERSTOCK or EVO, as long they homologate the changes ............ (Message edited by vagelis46 on May 01, 2014) | ||
| Classax |
Bro you might want to read the rules again. MFG's can and do homologate their race catalog parts and are allowed to sell down spec parts for cost or production viability reasons (See section 1.5 of the homologation rules.) Old rule that nearly everyone bends. No big deal if you have race parts developed already, if not you run what's sold on the floor. Yes one can homologate new parts in EVO and Superstock mid season, but you can't race or develop/test the new parts in races, until you do. In Superbike you can make changes to the alloted items in the superbike spec on the fly without the need to homologate said items. | ||
| Blake |
>>> SUPERSTOCK ....... ARE showroom engines ! Not hardly. Head gasket can be changed (compression ratio significantly increased, thus allowing significantly higher performance, especially on race fuel). Cam timing can be changed (engine racing performance significantly improved). Exhaust tract can be replaced (engine racing performance significantly improved). The ECM can be reprogrammed or changed (along with the rest of the allowed mods, engine racing performance MASSIVELY improved). A showroom engine would be grossly uncompetitive. You need to look at the tech rules, not the homologation rules. See section 2.6... http://www.fim-live.com/fileadmin/alfresco/2014_SB K_SS_SST_REGULATIONS_10.04.2014.pdf | ||
| Trojan |
your comments here seem to point to- that since EBR hasn't won every race they've entered, they should give up because they aren't capable of doing things right. Nobody expected EBR to win a race this early. However I think it isn't too much to expect a full factory team to at least be competitive with their contempories, which means ahead of the EVo bikes and at least at the level of the other new teams like MV and Bimota. Everyone here was talking of Superpole and top ten levels of performance being crdible, and yet they haven't made the top 20 in qualifying yet. Every sport has winners and losers, that is sport. And the losers can always expect criticism. That is why football managers get sacked when their team isn't performing after 3 or 4 games. Never mind that they need to find out what doesn't work to know what does work, That is what pre-seaason testing is supposed to be there for (and a full season of AMA racing prior to that). By hiring two riders who don't know the tracks and then failing to test over winter EBR made it much harder for themselves than they needed to, and these were team decisions that deserve criticism in my view. This is WSb racing, not some cozy club race where you just turn up for the fun of it. The results of the team will directly influence what people think of the new bike and new brand (particularly in Europe where there is no nationalistic reason to support them). If they can't compete at this level then they should take the same decision as KTM and Triumph and stay out of WSb. It is early days still, despite three rounds gone, so they have time to improve. Howwever that improvement needs to be large, noticeable and very very soon. If that means making major team structure or rider changes so be it. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Why exactly would you expect a first year team to automatically be ahead of a well developed Evo bike? | ||
| Trojan |
Why exactly would you expect a first year team to automatically be ahead of a well developed Evo bike? 1.A full factory spec WSB bike SHOULD be quicker than an EVO bike with a Superstock engine (Yes I know Superstock is not showroom but it is less than factory superbike for sure). That should be the basic starting point for judging WSB performance this year. 2. There is no such thing as a well developed EVO bike as the EVO class is new for this year. ALL the Evo bikes are new. 3. If you want to judge only against other new teams then judge against MV and Bimota. Both have outperformed the EBR team this year on track so far even though they have both had more than their share of problems caused by lack of testing as well. However MV are arriving at each round with massive upgrades every time, not just a few bits and pieces here and there. Bimota can't score points yet but they are head and shoulders above EBR in terms of performance on track. At the end of the day the EBR team MUST be judged against the competition they are racing against, and at the moment they are not at the eame level. | ||
| Crusty |
Matt; can you say anything positive about EBR? | ||
| Reepicheep |
I admit I don't really understand the Evo rules, but they seemed at a high level to be all about divergence from stock. So from that regard, if you have been running under non Evo rules for a while and integrating those changes into your catalog of available race parts, switching to Evo doesn't actually hurt you that much. You are using the same stuff you were using under non Evo rules and that you developed over the past 5 years of learning in WSBK. EBR is at year 1. It would be silly to run under Evo for them, as they don't yet have much data on what they need to change. So jumping in under a limited change ruleset would be a disproportionately large impact on a team with a lot of ground to cover. So there are really two classes of non Evo bikes. One class of well developed platforms that want absolute freedom to spend money hand over fist and be the very very best, and one class of brand new teams that know many changes will likely be necessary because they have a lot of ground to cover. But maybe I am missing something. Maybe I misunderstand the Evo rules though... | ||
| Classax |
So from that regard, if you have been running under non Evo rules for a while and integrating those changes into your catalog of available race parts, switching to Evo doesn't actually hurt you that much. You are using the same stuff you were using under non Evo rules and that you developed over the past 5 years of learning in WSBK. EBR is at year 1. It would be silly to run under Evo for them, as they don't yet have much data on what they need to change. So jumping in under a limited change ruleset would be a disproportionately large impact on a team with a lot of ground to cover. ^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^  1.A full factory spec WSB bike SHOULD be quicker than an EVO bike with a Superstock engine (Yes I know Superstock is not showroom but it is less than factory superbike for sure). That should be the basic starting point for judging WSB performance this year. Some of us keep forgetting that with a very few differences the bikes on the grid in the AMA are for sale in the showrooms. They have taken that machine with a few changes again to WSbk. "Full Factory" is a label regarding the nature of the make up of or naming rights of or, relationship of the teams' title sponsor to the MFG they run, not a spec. The Spec's are Superbike and EVO. We can stop bandiying Full Factory about as though its somehow supposed to make things instantly better. You either have developed and homologated race parts or you haven't, full stop as my friends across the pond would say. Tune a stock Panigale or RSV4 all you want, you won't make EVO let alone Superbike power and you won't make the grid without Corsa parts. Granted both those machines like all the others in full Corsa Spec are uber powerful and deadly quick! The reality is EBR are just barely quick enough to make the grid in WSb and they will slowly get better. EBR has almost no Corsa Spec parts developed to "Wsb WINNING or even Top 10 levels of performance" yet and that development is why they are racing to begin with. The whole concept for the 1190RX is "bred on the 'race' track". | ||
| Trojan |
So from that regard, if you have been running under non Evo rules for a while and integrating those changes into your catalog of available race parts, switching to Evo doesn't actually hurt you that much. That doesn't really hold water either as a lot of the EVO teams are also in their first year in the series or have returned after a period away (other than the top kawasaki and Ducati guys). Evo is a new class and they are all still learning it. EBR is at year 1. It would be silly to run under Evo for them, as they don't yet have much data on what they need to change. So jumping in under a limited change ruleset would be a disproportionately large impact on a team with a lot of ground to cover. Here's the thing. EVO will be the ONLY WSB class next year, so entering as a full factory team for a 'learning year' in order to develop parts for next year is in many ways a waste of time and effort. Sure they develop parts (that they may not be able to use next year) and riders learn the tracks, but that is it. If they had entered as a EVO team in the first place their motors are already far nearer to EVO spec, they would have learned useful data and setup for next year when everyone is going to be under EVO rules, and they could still develop their chassis in exactly the same way they are now. That is exactly why you see Kawasaki running factory AND Evo bikes this year in order to gather data and not fall behind when EVO becomes the de facto main class. It is such a no brainer that I have to wonder what they were thinking really. Suppose EBR spend this year getting closer to the factory bikes only to find that they have to start over next year becaue they have to then meet EVO rules? As an EVO entry this year there is much less pressure to do well against the main runners, so if you do well in your class everyone applauds and if you don't then no big deal (Well not AS big a deal). It is such a win win situation that I cannot understand the logic of entering as a full factory team in the first year at all. Matt; can you say anything positive about EBR? What do you want me to say. I love the road bike (what I've seen of it). I haven't seen much to cheer about in WSB yet I'm afraid. Just making the grid shouldn't be cause for celebration, The minimum expected requirement of a factory WSb team should be to make the top 20 into Superpole every race at least surely? Anything less than that is not a success story. Don't worry, when they do something well I'll be the first to cheer | ||
| Reepicheep |
It's as much about the bike and maker as it is the team, that's the whole point of the Evo rules. So to say a team is new (on an established bike), or to say a team is just new to Evo rules, is completely different than saying it is a brand new bike to the series. We get it. You want a carefully sanitized, make sure everything is perfect, walk in and place high from the start. To me, that would be about as interesting as watching paint dry. I enjoy a more dynamic story. | ||
| Classax |
I cannot understand the logic of entering as a full factory team in the first year at all. Bingo! What ever spec parts you choose to homologate you must run unalterd for the season or have any new parts homologaged, change your VIN#'s, issue service bulletins ect... those are the rules of the EVO/Superstock spec. What MFGs generally do is homologate their race spec/tolerance parts. The rules allow for alteration based on cost or production concerns, so the bean counters go through it and find ways to reduce cost or ease production. Cast vs forged, looser tolerances, billet vs ect... on and on. These dumbed down low cost parts are what you and I get when we buy a race replica. Otherwise, the cost would be too high and sales would suffer. The only new teams in terms of parts are MV, Bimota and EBR. Bimota not quite as much because they run the Beemer race engines which though never winners are well established. Under the Superbike Spec you can go whole hog and change whatever you like and replace it with one of a kind goldplated unobtanium bits made from unicorn horn and moondust, forged by pixies imported from Mars. You could even homologate those parts with certain limitations ( there are restrictions on crank weights being no lighter than showroom for example) and say that is your EVO spec machine. Therefore EVO is NOT A NEW CLASS OF MOTORCYCLES, its just a cap on the types of modification one can do on the existing motorcycles. Those who have already established well developed race components are all set, they just can't race or on track develop any new parts without homologating them first(which is very cost prohibitive for reasons stated above). It may well be your superbike and your EVO machine, because you homologated your suberbike parts ala Ducati, are exactly the same, hence of similar performance. EBR have very few if any such Corsa spec parts because as a company they prefer not to dumb down the showroom stock if at all financially possible and sell a machine that is as close race ready as practical. Now to be competitive at the highest levels, ie WSBk, they must develop new parts on track and unless they want to expend the capital to homologate a part before they are allowed to run it on the track, they need to be in SBK, a class where they can change almost anything they wish and see if it performs in practice as well as it does in theory. Its particularly important to do this development this year since it won't be available as an option next year as everyone will be under the EVO spec rules. So even though they are fresh out of the gate, with perhaps an under prepared team, started behind the schedule curve and may be even cash tight(the little issue of rolling out 3 new models) SBK gives them the best chance to quickly develop and be ready to homologate competitive machines for sale and EVO next year. Now is it still a case of not understanding the logic or just disagreeing with it? I respect either opinion, but if its the latter I will quit trying to explain it and we can just  about how awesome the street bike is, and PRAY the team catches lightning in a bottle next round. (Message edited by classax on May 02, 2014) | ||
| Reepicheep |
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| Fast1075 |
 Maybe it is time to go completely off topic just to rest a bit. Here is the story I promised to tell one day. When I was drag racing, I regularly outran a lot of people riding my low budget machinery. One opponent decided to really step up his game. He bought a custom chassis, and hired a big named race shop to build an engine. When the bike was ready to ride, it was a slug. He fiddled with that thing, had the big name engine builder come to the track and go over his setup, and tweak the tune. He messed with it a whole season and it never lived up to his expectations. Next season he had another engine built. Full on aftermarket race head, Pro Mod controller, big nitrous kit, best of everything. A little quicker, but not even quick enough to qualify well. He finally sold the bike in frustration. My racing teammate bought it. We took it to his shop and went over it carefully. Checked every aspect on the engine. Leak down: even on all cylinders at 3%. Cam timing perfect. Ignition timing perfect. Compression: perfect at 225 (15.2 C.R). Took to the track. My teammate (220#) rode it. "Flat from the middle on, no pull" I rode it (145#). Same thing. Good 60ft at 1.21, but flat at the 330, barely run a sluggish 9.40 at 121. So we looked at the tuning setup for the controller, checked the wiring, operation of all the devices. Went through the programming of the controller. Found that the 2nd nitrous stage timer was set in conflict with the first stage, and the nitrous only ran for .045 seconds. The ignition timing ramp was correctly set to pull 12 degrees of timing out for the nitrous. No nitrous, no advance. Bad huh?. The rpm window for the nitrous had the nitrous only running between 5800 and 6000 rpm, and this was after a 9 second delay. We reset everything but the base timing, which was good at 36 degrees. Nitrous timer in at 1.3 seconds. Build ramp at 2 seconds. retard rate 2 seconds retard limit 26 degrees. Rpm window 6K to 11K. Shut off the 2nd stage nitrous since it only ran one stage. Set up the clutch, and launch parameters, made one pass for a plug check with the nitrous disarmed and timing retard off. Turned every thing on, made a 330 check pass. Then made a full on pass. Bike ran 7.74 at 191. Minor tuning and set up errors. Made by a hired professional tuner. Professional: Anyone from out of town with a suitcase. |
