| Author | Message | ||
     Oklep |
Ok, thread from me again  I am an amateur so I need a help from you guys. Few days ago I bought S1 1996. I was happy as hell because there are no S1's in my country, so it was a big deal for me. Now I am a bit worried that it was a lie. Few minutes ago I checked my VIN and I found out that it is not frame from S1! My VIN starts with 4MZRS, and now I know that S1 frames starts with 4MZSS or S1W with 4MZYS. So according this site http://www.twinmotorcycles.nl/artikelen.asp?cid=18 &aid=191 my bike is not S1. Here are actual photos of my bike http://imgur.com/a/51rH2 Please tell me everything you can see from photos and so. If you want more pictures, just tell me. Thanks | ||
| General_ulysses |
I'm not an S1 expert by any stretch, although I just bought one myself about a month ago. It looks like an S1 to me, the frame and shocks and bodywork and motor do at least. The only part that looks different (other than the paint) is the sheet metal part over the rear section, presumably the support for the twin tail? I have a solo seat and my bike doesn't have that. Even if it is a converted M2, so what? Should give you the same thrill riding it, IMO. | ||
| Kc_zombie |
Well the frame is a 99-2001. There were no S1's manufactured after 1998. Does the engine abbreviated VIN number match the frame? What does the title read? | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
It looks nice. I wouldn't worry. Just ride it and relax. | ||
| Oklep |
I am from Europe where we have EU laws. We can change everything but not a frame! So in reality it means if you crash and your frame is dead, you cant replace it with another one. You need to buy some other crashed bike with good frame and replace other parts from old bike. Owner even told me that bike wasnt crashed, but if it is true that it is not S1 frame, it was fraud according to our laws. | ||
| Firemanjim |
I have a 99 M-2 here and it has a later alum swingarm and the frame brace on clutch side going forward, and your exhaust is early style as well. It is not a 99 M-2. | ||
| Basti |
Hi you have a correct S1 frame not an altered M2 or S3 frame, Bodywork is also from an S1 for the engine check the numbers. If you wish send them to mee, im from Europe also ( Germany which has surely the toughest laws ). @Kc_zombie why the hell you think this frame is the later 99-2002 ? Check the header routing and the missing left "frame brace" . Thats all you need to check first. | ||
| Oklep |
Yep, it is not m2. I checked better and it looks like frame is from S3 http://www.twinmotorcycles.nl/images/uploads/image /VIN/9301X1M2S3.jpg RS=S3 In USA it is probably ok. here in EU it is HUGE fraud. | ||
| Dannybuell |
let us know how your fraud case settles! | ||
| Oldog |
I am from Europe where we have EU laws. We can change everything but not a frame! So in reality it means if you crash and your frame is dead, you cant replace it with another one. So you can't buy an S3 and make an S1 from it? WOW...} | ||
| Oklep |
Yes you can (as long as your frame is genuine), but you cant sell it as a S1. | ||
| Oklep |
Kc_zombie: how can I check if engine match the frame? | ||
| Hootowl |
"Well the frame is a 99-2001" No, it isn't. Look at the right side near the rear exhaust. It's straight. That's a pre 99 frame. Everything about the bike screams S1 to me. S1 has a very narrow frame where the seat meets the tank. Other models have a much wider seat. I doubt you could dress an M2 or S3 frame up in that bodywork with that seat. | ||
| Hootowl |
And unless they swapped subframes (welding required) along with all the other S1 parts on that bike, that's an S1 frame. | ||
| Hootowl |
Paul, do a google image search for Buell M2 frame and Buell S1 frame. You'll see the differences. Compare them to yours. | ||
| Kc_zombie |
My mistake. Despite my error the fact remains that Oklep stated the first five numbers of his VIN are 4MZRS which does not appear to be from an S1. At least according to any VIN decoder I've seen. (Message edited by kc zombie on April 29, 2014) | ||
| Oklep |
He could welding the frame. For example re-welded the broken steering head (I dont know how it is actually called). | ||
| S1owner |
Well looking at the frame the area where the pegs mount looks like my S1 the header area is sim to an s1 tail area is also sim to an S1. If this was a conversion they did alot of work. If it was a diffrent frame there is not another that looks like an S1 Here is pics of my 96  | ||
| Screamer |
"4MZRS" is an S3 VIN... | ||
| S1owner |
Ok this is my opinion there is no way its anything other than an S1! I looked over the pics in detail and everything looks correct Your front motor mount looks like the 96 S1  I cant explain the vin could be because it is europe? But even the motor timing cover is sn S1. Does the numbers on the title match the numbers on the frame? I was told my M2 frame does not exist because there is no nimber stamped in the frame but yet it is sitting in my garage so things happen! | ||
| General_ulysses |
The frame appears to be repainted. Is the VIN simply typed on a sticker and put on the frame? Or is it actually stamped into the frame? My S1 has it's number stamped into the frame. (Message edited by General_ulysses on April 29, 2014) | ||
| Jolly |
My 96 and my 98 S1 both have a sticker with the number printed on it and the number stamped in the frame | ||
| Screamer |
Based on the foot peg location, the frame is an S1. Both M2and S3 foot peg mounting holes are lower. Regardless of the country, 4MZRS is the beginning of an S3VIN. Is the VIN stamped on the neck? | ||
| Ratbuell |
The VIN should be stamped into the neck. M2 and S3 frames are nearly identical, especially later frames. Your engine number should be a very close match to the frame, only missing a couple digits. You'll be able to tell. And my 98 S3 is a 4MZFS. Not RS. I would suspect Euro VINs are different. Court? 1313? | ||
| Screamer |
The parts catalogs have a lot of good information related to VINs. I grabbed 1997 parts catalogs only because that was the model year that I happened to quickly locate all three models (S1, M2, S3) catalogs. According to the VIN designator info from the front of the parts catalogs, (I think for all markets shipped to at the time) 4MZFS is an S3T, 4MZRS is an S3, 4MZKS is a M2, 4MZSS is an S1. From the later version S2 catalog, 4MZRT is an S2 and 4MZFT is an S2T, From the early version S2 catalog, 1B9RT is an S2. I can look up later years if any one wants but Offhand I'm pretty sure my 1999 S3 is still 4MZRS, and I think our 2000 S3T is 4MZFS (but I'll have to check to be sure). | ||
| Greg_cifu |
Everything you have there is S1--the forks, the bodywork--and yes--the frame. The footpeg area and the exhaust routing are the dead giveaways. The only number that should really matter is the one stamped into the steering neck. You may have laws about the decals and whatever but, the number stamped into the neck is the final word. Three things come to mind: 1) Somebody mis-read the steering neck or decal and messed up your paperwork. That should be easy to correct if you can show them where somebody misread a letter or number. 2) Somebody removed the original numbers with a grinder and stamped new numbers into the neck. That would be pretty easy to see. 3) Somebody cut the steering neck off of an S1 frame and welded an S3 neck to it. This is highly unlikely and would be easy to spot (look for the welds). That would be such major surgery that I can't imagine somebody going to that much trouble to fake a vehicle ID number. What do you see stamped into the steering neck? | ||
| Pash |
Assuming the pictures are consistent, there is something strange going on cos you have a twintail rear light bracket under a standard seat... | ||
| Anonymous |
I dont have any sticker on the neck, there is only number stamped on the neck. Somebody repainted the frame even with VIN so it is really hard to see. But from I can see, fourth digit is reaply "R", even in papers is 4MZRS. | ||
| Oklep |
This last post was from me, not from anonymous. Just to be clear. My engine number is different from frame number. it starts with SSW and ends with "165" while frame ends with "155" (Message edited by Oklep on April 30, 2014) | ||
| Basti |
well the ultimate difference betwenn the S1 and M2/S3 frames is the steering look. Have a look at it S3/M2 have the barrel type lock also found on the ignition switch and fuel tank, the S1 has the older Niemann style lock. Just check Seems you have an original frame with wrong number |
