| Author | Message | ||
     Classax |
Well the few magazines we seen so far praise the performance and honestly assess the mixed quality of some of the parts. The Demo truck was here in Houston this weekend and hats off to the EBR folks manning it! Super knowledgeable amazingly helpful crew! Unfortunately the feedback I got from most of the riders was that it seemed to lack power  and was soft compared to their I4's and particularly the RSV4. Mine threw down 165rwhp and with a torque curve that is nearly a FLAT, it definitely does NOT lack in the power department. Besides the guys who had never ridden a liter bike but would immediately do this and that to "uncork the power" Quite a few guys whose opinions I respect came away thinking it was too soft. The bike is very easy to ride, and simply doesn't feel as manic or fast as it is. One rider rode a RSV4 right after and came back glowing about how strong it was and how fast the RVS4 felt by comparison. I rode the same bike and though nothing was wrong with the RSV4, great bike, it just seemed to be less in control and on the edge than the 1190RX at the same speeds. Everyone agreed the 1190RX felt and handles extremely light and nimble but they definitely weren't impressed with the power (delivery) here's a link to a discussion we had after. Thoughts? http://http://www.motohouston.com/forums/showthrea d.php?p=3759877#post3759877 | ||
| Noone1569 |
Those are some very interesting comments from people test riding it. I think the ease of riding the beast certainly makes it feel like it doesn't have as much power, combine that with the flat torque curve and low end grunt of the v-twin, it doesn't have "peaky" power an I4 has. A couple friends of mine thought the same thing after riding it. Then we drag raced, 2 zx10rs, r1, gsxr 1000 and an 1125, and the 1190 dusted all of them by a fair margin. I also did a roll race against an RSV4 APRC from about 50 to 155 and had no problem pulling again and gaining on the ape. I think this is testimony to the engineers at EBR. The bike is extremely easy to ride and easy to forget it has 185 hp and 101lbs of tq. Also, I think where the Traction Control was set at should be something noted. Traction Control set up higher than 3 can be very invasive on power delivery and certainly make the bike feel like it is down on power. (Message edited by noone1569 on April 21, 2014) | ||
| Ljm |
Traction control. Has to be. Wonder what setting they put it on? I don't get much seat time on the RX. Priscilla rides it for the most part, but she doesn't like the traction control and keeps it off. My seat of the pants comparison with the RS though is that the power delivery is different and more controllable but it is comparable, and better on the low end to the R1. Both bikes not stock. You don't get the feel like you are going have it get away from you though like the R1 when you hit 10K. | ||
| Classax |
I also did a roll race against an RSV4 APRC from about 50 to 155 and had no problem pulling again and gaining on the ape. Standing starts are more about the rider skill than bike in most cases so it could be the riders. Roll on's cut through all of that. What I do know is I crush my buddy on his Panigale 1199 in roll on's just about everywhere. From the time we hit it, to the time he starts making power, I have gapped already and stay out front otherwise we're fairly evenly matched. I've pulled surprising gaps on a couple of zx10, r1 and Cbr1000rrs in roll on test all the way to 160. Same story once we are on in I have a gap by the time they start making power, and even though they may have more top end, we usually run out of space before it matters enough to catch me. In a straight line it holds its own with any of them but doesn't scary me when doing so. | ||
| Noone1569 |
I agree, its so well planted and the power is delivered so linearly (word?) that it is not as terrifying as hitting the peak power on an I4 liter bike. Just pulls like a train and keeps going and going and going. | ||
| Court |
>>>Just pulls like a train and keeps going and going and going. Can you think of any motorcycle that has ever done this before? . . . the flat torque curve is a marvel of engineering and applied talent. I wonder what other sorts of things such folks could apply to mortar design? I enjoy reading these reports. | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
Im bettin the traction control is full on, on the demo bikes. Too much liability. They cant just let every tom dick and harry jump on a 185 hp superbike. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Can you think of any motorcycle that has ever done this before? . . . the flat torque curve is a marvel of engineering and applied talent. The XB12's had a pretty flat torque curve, but a LOT less RPM spread than the 1190 and they required an interactive muffler valve to achieve it. The only engine I'm aware of that approached the torque curve of the 1190 was the Audi 1.8T auto engine. It had 5 valves per cylinder, I believe variable intake timing, a turbo and ECM manipulation of boost to maintain a broad, flat torque curve, but even it didn't have nearly the RPM spread of the 1190. Compare that with the EBR 1190 with essentially no extra moving parts (no variable valve timing, no turbo, no muffler valves) achieving the same thing. That's pretty impressive. | ||
| Court |
>>>Too much liability. They cant just let every tom dick and harry jump on a 185 hp super bike. Explain to me . . . . just generally . . . the DIFFERENCE in liability in allowing someone on a 101HP bike and a 185HP bike? The waiver is so crafted that unless you are pushed off by the leader or trailing rider . . . .you, the rider, pretty much accept any and all responsibility for about anything including the condition of the bike (you agree that you've inspected it and accept it "as is") and so forth. . . . Test rides . . . on motorcycles are a bit of a crap shoot under the best conditions. Big challenge, during the hundreds of rides I led for Buell, was convincing half sloshed folks at Daytona it wasn't safe. "no...no . . I always ride after a couple beers . . . I'll be fine". :-) | ||
| Hootowl |
I think the real question is, how in the heck did I miss this EBR event in Houston? | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
I can only speak of my test ride on a bmw s1000rr. They had a rev limiter set at 8000 rpm. So i just guessed that might explain lack of power people were complaining about. | ||
| 46champ |
I just read the test article in road racing world. As the bike was first given to Chris Ulrich the traction control was set on 6 and he said it quote "produced too much intervention for me"So the TC could very well be the reason the riders feel it is soft. | ||
| Oldog |
Just a thought on the flat power curve, when the US built the F16 it was to get the most agile / powerful single engine fighter plane in existence bar none, One thing that came out of the program was that the plane became real ez to fly vs other combat aircraft the fly by wire, small platform, big engine lots of go. the 1190 sounds like that, goes where its pointed with no drama, stops when commanded, and has a big engine with lots & lots of go every where. So the Pilot concentrates on the task of riding or Winning vs managing the platform the machine just works with you.... seems true in both cases... not as exciting as the power coming in at 7000 rpm or being punted by a 1800 lb gorilla, being its got a little 1125 dna was there ever any doubt ??? | ||
| Classax |
But the problem is IT DOES deliver that punted by a 1800lb gorilla sensation. Its like three bikes in one. Keep it under 4 grand and its a big nimble scooter with 50-60mpg all day long. Pick a gear, any gear and just ride the throttle and its a tractor with a 150mph plus top end. Or ride it hard, shifting and using the tranny, keep the motor simmering at 6k and above and it will accelerate like a scalded cheetah. There is a clear boost or surge around 7k. Ride like I describe and you won't notice it. Just brutal acceleration anytime you want. The TC actually works pretty well at keeping you going FORWARD at the best optimal rate instead of managing your wheelies. Turn it below 7 and I can spin the tire, below 4 and its money, 2 and 1 are not good for the street as you can spin it up easily on the grease in most intersection on even a dry day if your hard on the gas. The TC only limits power when activated or a certain throttle positions under very specific conditions. Smooth is better, whack it like an i4 and it will activate the TC. Roll on the throttle quickly and it will launch into the next county before you realize it. Scrubs speed even quicker. (Message edited by Classax on April 21, 2014) | ||
| Court |
>>>So i just guessed that might explain lack of power people were complaining about. Very well could be. Demo rides are a fine art. I am less, given the waivers, concerned about liability than I was an "event". Demo rides (pretty much pioneered by Buell) are a powerful marketing tool A significant % of people who take a demo ride are likely to make a purchase. Get a potential crowd of 800 to ride in a day and an accident, any accident, at 0930 tosses a wrench in that. Make it a fatal and the day's shot. The great threat, greater than extremely powerful motorcycles, are extremely inexperienced riders and there are very few ways to sort out the range of skill levels . . . it's a sort of an art form. There were times I'd be following a group and Gary or Rusty would be at the front and I'd just have my fingers crossed hoping to get back in with the entire group. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
the liability and insurance regulations have changed so much with motorcycle dealers these days. I remember riding my M2 Cyclone up to Lake Shore Harley-Davidson / Buell back in 1999 and as I pulled in the parking lot they were rolling out the brand new X1 and asked me if I wanted to test ride it and of course I said yes. What was odd about this is that I had only ever been to their place once, never talked to anyone there, no did I even know anyone there much less that them knowing who I was, they just let me jump on it and take it out unsupervised for a test ride. Does anybody think that would happen these days? You have to sign a waiver at almost every place to test ride a motorcycle. Times sure have changed. | ||
| Ducbsa |
A test ride that St Paul HD/Buell organized sold me on my XB. As far as sorting out people who were bigger risks, did you ever turn someone down and how? IIRC, I think you had to have helmet, gloves, and jacket, not shorts and flip-flops. | ||
| Court |
We supplied helmets during the Buell demo rides. A motorcycle license and proper footwear were pretty much it. For the most part, and I probably led over 1,000 rides in the years we were doing them. Daytona likely accounted for a large portion of those since we started early and went until 5:00pm. We seldom ran into any significant problems and Daytona is the only place I recall having to turn folks away a a result of having been drinking. In those cases it was rarely a case of slobbering drunk, just booze on the breath. It's a disqualifier. The bigger risk was the "new" motorcycle endorsement in concert with a more powerful front brake than some were accustomed to. I recall one young lady making it only about 25', to the edge of the gravel parking area we were leaving, before laying the bike down. There were a couple severe accidents, speed related, and . . if memory serves me . . one fatality. Over the years I was doing riding, demo riding, test riding and media events for Buell I got asked to "take it for a ride" on a number of occasions. It always occurred to me that riding someone else's bike, a borrowed, loaned or demo unit, conferred a greatly elevated level or responsibility. I didn't like crashing OUR bikes and darn sure didn't want to be explaining to Jim Hunter that I'd trashed his Britten. The name escapes me but one of the top magazine guys once wadded a fairly rare bike and it was a bit ugly. The closest I ever came was aboard Jeremy Ricker's RG500 Gamma (Google it) . . . .I was on a trip to Portland and we were out with the DTFR gang (a group of rider's from Intel who had inducted me into their club) when Jeremy and I swapped bikes. I rode the Gamma for a couple miles through the twisty roads thinking "where's the beef? . . this thing is lame". Then I wicked it up a bit and got my debut lesson in the "theory and operation of the 2-stroke engine and the 200 rpm wide poet band". It was off like a gunshot . . . but, as you may know, the Gamma was known for "going" . . not so much "stopping". It was close. Fun times. I mean nothing like the Harley PR firing the top secret Onyx X1 off the cliff near Bryce Canyon , . . .but plenty exciting for me. | ||
| Noone1569 |
My local EBR dealer (Dreyer Motorsports, Whiteland, Indiana) is pretty forthcoming with test rides. In fact, they had an EBR open house right after they received their first 1190RXs, one yellow, one red (demo) and my black one. It was thirty five degrees and raining; I was in the midst of buying the black 1190RX, and the owner said "don't you want to take a ride first?" He tossed me the keys and let me take it out for as long as I felt necessary. In fact, he did that for 3 other people that day, and still has an open door demo policy on that bike. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I can imagine demo rides are a pretty big risk. A few years back at March Badness (Suches, GA), while waiting my turn for a Buell demo ride, I heard the dealer rep caution the group getting ready to go out about the ZTL front brake. ~30 seconds later one of the riders did an end-over stoppie because apparently they had to try the front brake to be sure. KTM did demo rides in October in Suches a couple of years later. They used the same route Buell had used and were organized similarly. Of course one rider managed to wad up a brand-new RC8 and I believe get seriously inured in the process. I don't think KTM has been back since. | ||
| Whistler |
Hootowl, ditto. | ||
| Classax |
Its a real risk. Un or Fortunately depending on how you look at it' Texas is a big open state, so our riders tend to be quite jaded when it comes to speed and horsepower. The speed limit on the SIDESTREET turning out of the Demo dealership was 50 and 70 on the adjacent highway both jam packed with bumper to bumber traffic flowing at about 84.879mph,(the fedarales usually  as long as EVERYONE stays under 15 over). Back roads are done well north of the ton every where which shocked the Demo leader. Hootowl and Whistler we have to get the Htown club back up and running again. I have been forced to hang out with the Ducatistas(Yes, this was taken in front of Starbucks, I think its what they use for fuel, please   Black Sheep forever! (Message edited by Classax on April 22, 2014) | ||
| Fuzzz |
I've been on three of the Buell demo rides, on an M2 (Bought mine 3 months later) an XB12R, and an 1125R, all out of Sears Point. The first time, I watched an R1 rider almost flip an X-1 in the parking lot, it was pretty 'exciting' and then everyone else steered clear of him, LOL! The other two rides were great, though I had the most fun on the XB, because the group leader and I kind of ran away from the rest of the bikes :-)I cannot wait to throw a leg over an RX, preferably in Black! (Message edited by Fuzzz on April 22, 2014) | ||
| Theirishbueller |
I rode my xb out for the Houston demo on Saturday morning, unfortunately didn't get to stick around because I had a wedding to get to. I can't comment on how the RX compares to liter bikes, this is by far the most powerful bike I'd ridden. However, I did feel it was extremely smooth and easy to ride. While you can still get yourself into trouble if you're not careful, it was in no way intimidating. The traction control was set at 5 for all the bikes is what I was told. Amazing bike, tons of fun even for the brief ride it was. Wish I had 20k to spare. I still maintain though, that the XB12 is one of the greatest STREET bikes ever. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Interesting- Cycle World just posted a photo of a yellow 1190RX to Instagram (found from link on FB) with this comment:
(pardon all the hashtags) | ||
| Ratbuell |
I've done (and led) quite a few demo rides in my day. Easiest way to tell someone no who "always rides after a couple beers"? "Not on my bike you don't. Write me a check and pay for it, and you can do whatever you like. Till then? My bike, MY rules." Probably some of the most fun I've had was chasing Tripp Nobles around Las Vegas motorsports track in 06 for the dealer release of the new Dyna and the Ulysses. Then again chasing him around Pocono in 08 for the 1125 release. One girl highsided at Pocono and shattered her collarbone but that was the only demo incident I've witnessed. And that includes the 02 XB release ride at Daytona where we were told "don't pass the lead rider". I couldn't even SEE the lead rider, he was OUTTA THERE. Catching him, though....was a ton of fun!  | ||
| Vtpeg |
"Can you think of any motorcycle that has ever done this before? . . . the flat torque curve is a marvel of engineering and applied talent. I wonder what other sorts of things such folks could apply to mortar design? " How is the torque compared to a DC motor? Is that a big hint? Is EBR branching out into cementitious products? Stronger and lighter, right. | ||
| Noone1569 |
Man, this thing is easy to ride. http://i.imgur.com/PbJEzAU.jpg | ||
| Hootowl |
Nice. Passenger obviously knows how to ride. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Wow. Nice shot! | ||
| Noone1569 |
Thanks. This thing was a hit at the Dragon. Lots of people stopping to take a look, take some pics, and talk to me about it. Lots of misinformation out there, too. One fellow was convinced it was electric, even though it has the large exhaust. . . | ||
| Hughlysses |
Thanks. This thing was a hit at the Dragon. Lots of people stopping to take a look, take some pics, and talk to me about it. Very cool. Hopefully it generates some sales for Greenville, SC EBR dealer RPM who showed up for the meet. | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
I'm guessing the stock TC setting is 6, and that's what gave the weak feel. Like others said, that's what was done at the Jennings press ride and they all turned it down. The flat torque curve throws ppl off too, one of the 1125's knocks is it's "soulless" engine. No hit up top, no brutality down low....it's FLAT everywhere, which works well for technical, heavy roll through cornering. Took me a while to get used to after my SV1K....but once you do, it works soooo well! The few pro/ex pro racers who rode the RS said it was like an old two stroke race bike on steroids, it handles like a bike half it's size. They will get it when we start getting into the serious literbike shootouts this summer. | ||
| Classax |
Maybe I haven't ridden enough truly brutal machines but the flatness of the torque curve lulls you into thinking it doesn't feel as quick until you're next to someone in a roll on, then you realize the bike is just as deadly quick, but just way easier to ride. |
