| Author | Message | ||
     Al_lighton |
I was very confused about the Rocker box gasket changes that have occurred over the past several years, so I investigated a little. Prior to the XB series, you could buy from HD a Gasket Kit, Rocker covers, part number 17036-91. These were the crappy gaskets of old, with paper 2 piece gaskets between the heads and lower rocker boxes that always shredded, and with the rubber parts for the split covers that had one between the head and the middle slice, a small center one at the same joint, and a third rubber one between the split covers. Then Buell made the gaskets better, in particular went to a single gasket between the head and the rockerbox, and it wasn't cardboard any more. Even though the kit contents thus changed, for some reason, they didn't change the number or revision of the kit, it was still a 17036-91, not 91A kit. The contents of the gasket 17036-91 gasket kit was: 16800-84 Gasket, Rocker Box/Head (2) 17353-89 Gasket, Rocker Cover, Lower (2) 17354-89 Gasket, Rocker Cover, Upper (2) 17358-84A Gasket, Rocker Cover, Inner (2) 26856-89A Check Valve, Umbrella (2) 63858-49 Gasket, Rocker Box (10) (under screw heads) The above is pretty much what you see if you look at a 2003 XB parts manual. Except XBs don’t use the check valve, upper rocker Cover, and 2 of the screw head gaskets. You throw them away if you buy the kit for the XB. Fast forward a couple years, to 2005, and it’s the same 17036-91 kit part number, but there is a revision on the lower rocker box gasket. I’m pretty sure this is where they changed from Black to Brown gaskets on those. 16800-84 Gasket, Rocker Box/Head (2) 17353-89A Gasket, Rocker Cover, Lower (2) 17354-89 Gasket, Rocker Cover, Upper (2) 17358-84A Gasket, Rocker Cover, Inner (2) 26856-89A Check Valve, Umbrella (2) 63858-49 Gasket, Rocker Box (10) (under screw heads) Fast forward one year, to 2006, and it’s again the same 17036-91 kit part number, but there is another revision on the lower rocker box gasket. I’m not sure what the change is, but it still has the big flat spots in the two corners. 16800-84 Gasket, Rocker Box/Head (2) 17353-89B Gasket, Rocker Cover, Lower (2) 17354-89 Gasket, Rocker Cover, Upper (2) 17358-84A Gasket, Rocker Cover, Inner (2) 26856-89A Check Valve, Umbrella (2) 63858-49 Gasket, Rocker Box (10) (under screw heads) Fast forward one more year, to 2007, and now the kit changes to the 17036-91A kit part number. There was a part number change to the actual lower rocker box (17598-07), and the kit now has more gaskets in it. The big change is that the lower and inner are tall skinny orange things instead of the flatter old style, and the big flat spots in the corners are gone. The 07 parts book shows that the XB uses only the new orange ones with asterisks below. But the kit still comes with up-revisions of the older legacy gaskets. The revs shown below might be a little more current than the 17036-91A snapshot in 07, because I didn’t read that kit contents then. 16800-84A Gasket, Rocker Box/Head (2)* 17353-89C Gasket, Rocker Cover, Lower (2) 17354-89 Gasket, Rocker Cover, Upper (2) 17358-84B Gasket, Rocker Cover, Inner (2) 17362-07 Gasket, Rocker Cover, Lower (2)* 17393-07 Gasket, Breather Seal, Crankcase (2) 17695-07 Gasket, Rocker Cover, Inner (2)* 26856-89A Check Valve, Umbrella (2) 63858-49 Gasket, Rocker Box (10) (under screw heads) The 2008 parts book is identical to the above. The current 17036-91A kit part number, as of today (3/10/10) is as below, with asterisks on the XB used gaskets. Note that they finally put improved cover bolt washers in the kits. 16800-84A Gasket, Rocker Box/Head (2)* 17353-89C Gasket, Rocker Cover, Lower (2) 17354-89 Gasket, Rocker Cover, Upper (2) 17358-84B Gasket, Rocker Cover, Inner (2) 17362-07A Gasket, Rocker Cover, Lower (2)* 17393-07 Gasket, Breather Seal, Crankcase (2) 17695-07A Gasket, Rocker Cover, Inner (2)* 26856-89A Check Valve, Umbrella (2) 6589 Washer, Bonded/Sealing (10) (under screw heads) Fast forward one more year, to 2009, and now the kit called out in the 09 parts book changes from the 17036-91A kit part number to 17036-08. The big change is that the legacy gaskets are gone, and there is some new O-rings and a 17633-08A gasket in the kit. But as far as the XB series goes, the changes are meaningless, because the parts in the 08 and 09 bikes are exactly the same, with one exception: The parts books on EVERY XB up until 09 don’t show the Umbrella valve in them, because that lives in the plastic PCV valve on XB rocker boxes. But in the 09 and identical 10 parts books, they now list the same umbrella valve that was used in the XL/tuber engines. I have no idea where they think it would be installed. It is shown next to the PCV valve, so maybe that plastic part is can now be disassembled to replace the umbrella valve inside of it? I don’t know, has anyone done this? Below is the contents of the 17036-08 kit as of today (3/10/10). 11621 O-Ring, Breather (2) 11625 O-Ring 16800-84A Gasket, Rocker Box/Head (2)* 17362-07A Gasket, Rocker Cover, Lower (2)* 17393-07 Gasket, Breather Seal, Crankcase (2) 17633-08A Gasket, Rocker Cover 17695-07A Gasket, Rocker Cover, Inner (2)* 26856-89A Check Valve, Umbrella (2) 6589 Washer, Bonded/Sealing (10) (under screw heads) The bottom line is this: 1) The 17036-91 or 91A kit will work in ALL tube frame Buells, and all XBs through 06, because the 91A kit has the legacy rocker box gaskets in it. 2) The 17036-91A kit is needed for 07 and later, and will work through 2010, because the changes don't really matter for XBs, they're sportster based. 3) The 17036-08 kit won't work on anything prior to 2007, because it doesn't include the legacy gaskets. But the 08 kit is not needed for the 07-10 bikes. 4) How does Cometic fits into all this? No clue yet. But I have no issues with the newer style OEM gaskets, they're fine. But for head and base gaskets, I'll stick with Cometics..... Al | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Al, Thanks TONS for that overview, a couple of time I really wondered what was going on the the top end gasket sets. It seemed everytime I got one it was different. Guess I wasn't imagining things... This is GREAT information to keep in the archives. Brad | ||
| Reepicheep |
LOL. You no doubt know more about those than Harley does, and I can't imagine how much work that took to sort out... Yet some time before lunch is done today, somebody somewhere will buy something they saw on your site somewhere else to save 5%. (shaking head....) Thanks for the update Al! I am thinking about replacing my oil pump and drive gear, and was wondering what the state of the union was regarding rocker box gaskets. | ||
| Al_lighton |
I was speaking with Dan at NRHS about this, and he said that Cometic told him that they don't make the rubber gaskets that go in their kits, they get them from HD. Al | ||
| Brinnutz |
Awesome info!!!! Was just going to look for this. Thanks Al, and thanks Brad for showing me this thread! | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Al, I'm not so sure about that. Whenever I've used Cometic sets I've always had problems with the RB gaskets fitting a bit odd. No so with the HD sets though. It's almost like they are streched in some areas and shrunk in others. I always get them to work but it's a bit of a pain. Interesting.. Brad | ||
| Brinnutz |
I should read more lol. I thought it was the whole tope end doh. (Message edited by brinnutz on April 03, 2010) | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Wilson, after we talked the other day, I got to thinking. I'm going to use Cometic from now on if only to keep from sending money in HD's direction. | ||
| Marks3tbillet |
For the 6589 bonded/sealing washers, do you maintain the washer that is on the factory bolt and put the new part under them? I'm asking because the factory washers are captured on the bolts. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Dusting off an ancient thread... When I replaced my rear head, a convergance of circumstance lead me to screw up the rocker box gasket... and I have it apart and want to get it right now. This is a 2007 Uly, and a problem with the gasket between the rocker box and the rocker box cover. 1) The previous owner of the bike must have had the rocker box off, because when I pulled it, there was NO gasket in there at all. Just a lot of RTV. Sounds mickey mouse to me, but it was holding for at least 10k miles that I put on it, who knows how much before then. 2) The Harley kit (as I now know from finding this thread) had way too many gaskets. I forget which part number it was, but it was the whole kit for both heads, and was $100 from my local dealer. 3) Because there was no gasket in there before, I did not know what to look for. Because the Harley overpriced kit did NOT include instructions, I grabbed the wrong gasket. A rubber X ring type thingy, that did not hold in the back corner, and which got the two flat spots chewed up. So now, pulling out my kit, and giving my forehead a good hard slap, I see the thick black gasket... like 3/8 inch tall, it fits down in the grove in the rocker box. Looks like a perfect gasket. So is that it? I just use that? What about in the center of the rocker box, is there just one gasket there as well? I used a silicone squared ORing looking thingy, which worked fine, but had no seating grooves (which looked mickey mouse to me, but was holding). Thanks for any help! I can post pictures of the parts if that would help. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Picture for clarity, I think I get it now. I did use the wrong outer rocker box gasket, the one I grabbed was the same as I used on the old M2, but the wrong one for the XB. I did use the right inner rocker box gasket, but I also threw on the one for another bike outside of it. Turned out harmless as it just "sealed again", but it should not have been there and won't go back in. The picture shows the gaskets you should use on an XB for the upper rocker box cover... look for the arrows. The arrows with an X through them are the WRONG gaskets to use.  Really obvious in hindsight, and I don't know why I missed it the first time. I don't know what I was thinking. But it was stupid for Harley to create this "gasket kit", make me buy gaskets I don't need, and then not even put any instructions in there saying which I should use for which application, and which I should throw away. The parts manual isn't helpful either, it doesn't tell you which to keep and which to pitch. Anyway, no big deal, I just had to rotate the engine again and slap it in. An appropriated "stupid penalty" for not seeing that the thinner gasket obviously would not seal. | ||
| Nillaice |
just to update the thread; i bought a rockerbox gasket set 17036-91A (dated 11/2011) and it didn't come with an orange gasket i went into the dealer and opened another kit dated 12/12 and it was also sans orange gasket. i'm gonna use the black straight-walled gasket without RTV and see how that fares in the rear valve cover on my 07 xb12 | ||
| Nillaice |
About a thousand miles logged. No leaks to report | ||
| Dtaylor |
Hey Matt (or anyone else who has used the newer kits) -- did you use the sealing washers that came in the kit? If so, how did you utilise them? The allen screws on my bike have captive washers, which are bigger in diameter than the sealing washers in the kit. The two allen screws inside the rocker box don't seem to have a gasket at all, just the captive washer. I'm reluctant to install another washer under the existing washer. Also -- although the service manual refers to them as fibre washers, the existing washers on my upper rocker box covers seem to be plastic-like. They are very well secured to the cover, and are the same diameter as the captive washers on the allen screws. I feel like I should re-use these, instead of the smaller diameter sealing washer. Doug | ||
| Nillaice |
I reused mine. They probably wouldn't leak either way you go | ||
| Jim2 |
The two allen screws inside the rocker box don't seem to have a gasket at all, just the captive washer. Correct, there is nothing that needs to go under the two allen screws inside. The fiber washers do turn into a plastic-like washer after awhile. Takes a bit of work to get them off. |
