| Author | Message | ||
     Fresnobuell |
Hi all. It's been a while since I posted here. Back in December, I had a high side which was eerily similar to the OPs crash in this thread (one other person in the thread also reported a similar crash as well): http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/605250.html I was on a very familiar piece of road (probably ridden the road 100s of times) and riding at a moderate pace. Conditions were cool, but not cold. Tires had been all the way up the hill and the crash happened on the way down (no rest at the top of the hill), so I don't think the tires were cold. Bottom line, the bike was nearly straight up and I began to brake for a right hander, then all of a sudden a big shudder from the front end (like you get when you are braking hard over bad pavement) and the next thing I know I am over the handle bars and the bike flips and lands on the left tailsection. I had changed the fluid a couple weeks earlier, but the MC wasn't overfilled. The pads are thin are ready for replacement--I heard if they are really thin the piston can over extend and not be able to retract. Not sure if this is a old wives tale or not. My gut tells me it was a mechanical issue with the forks or front brake, leaning towards the front brake. However there isn't any evidence from what I can see to support a mechanical issue. Of course, I can't rule out rider error and I can accept that. Like the OP in the thread above, I had some noise coming from the front end when the bike was stone cold, but it seemed to clear up once I was out the neighborhood. Stupid me couldn't identify where it was originating form and I basically ignored it. Perhaps this was a precursor of things to come... any ideas are welcome because the worst thing is not knowing the cause because I certainly don't want history to repeat itself. | ||
| Tbowdre |
How are you? Pretty scary story... I assume nothing on the road and the front tire spins okay post crash? weird FWIW My only high side was rider error as I saved what was going to be about a 60mph low side and then over corrected with traction and flipped the bike.... big ouch | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Im doing fine, actually. Separated shoulder and fractured elbow, could have been worse. I think my gear helped some. Shoulder no big deal. Elbow was the real PITA. I have NO desire to go thru the rehabbing process again... As far as the bike, yeah everything seems to be normal as far as the brake goes. Damage-wise the bike got off easy too. It completely flipped so all the impact was on the left side of the tailsection. Bad for sub-frame but good for the rest of the bike. I'm accumulating parts from the ebay and EBR to get her back on the road...hence my shout out to anyone who has had a similar crash. This was really weird for sure. | ||
| Nikoff90 |
I had this, in my case it was relatively slow speed "35mph." in an industrial park with a car pulling out on me. I was just left think wtf is going on as I tapped the brakes lightly and was rewarded with the front locked and skidding out to a low side while I had released the lever already. Haven't ridden the Buell since and i have been looking at doing some sort of dual disk front end swap if I actually keep the bike. I am accustomed to riding the front hard "rear in the air" on modern sport bikes and recovering front slides but you need the brakes to release for that. Sorry to hear you were injured I was not, but the bike and well over $1000 of gear was. FYI: I miss California lived in the North Bay and La Canada for a bit. North Bay was better for riding in my book Hwy 1 with the Sunday pack could get out of hand of times but i always stayed clean. Remember one good one with a pack of liter bikes run past me as I was trying to warn them off the speed going onto a bridge with a pack of deer on it. They had to pass me as I had just run through them all in the turns, LOL bikes and deer were flying everywhere all on their sides and not wheels and hooves. AFM was a blast to be part of if you are not a member join and get a good track bike that can run as many classes as possible. (Message edited by nikoff90 on April 08, 2014) (Message edited by nikoff90 on April 08, 2014) (Message edited by nikoff90 on April 08, 2014) | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Never had any lockup or unexpected braking issues with my 1125R--in fact, I've been pretty happy with the feedback from the front end. I will say that my next new bike will, without a doubt, have ABS. I've crashed at least several times (well, more like 4-5) due to locking up the front tire, usually while trail-braking. You'd think I'd learn. | ||
| Xtreme6669 |
Stock levers? I have heard of cheep ebay-type brake levers causing the front brake to drag just slightly and eventually lock up... | ||
| Jdugger |
You can also cause this with an overfilled res that can't return fluid as the brake heats. I've had that happen. In my case the front just kept braking and I pulled off track as the front locked up totally. I popped my bleeder on the MC and a few MLs of fluid shot out and the wheel freed. | ||
| Nikoff90 |
Mine levers look stock but I bought the bike used so who knows? Fluid level looks correct and all seemed to be functioning correctly other than having crappy feel which I assumed is normal for the ZTL2 from reading up on the bike. I do have a new piston set and think I have an R6 master that would work on the bike and I may try it out when the new pads arrive this week. I am going to service the forks, brake systems and shoe on new tires once the Ferodo brake pads arrive. Not sure if I don't like how they feel than I might just sell the beast off and pick up another GSXR750 or TL1000S as the cost of a proper front end swap outweighs the value of the bike. | ||
| Stevel |
This can happen more easily with the rim mounted rotor, as the mechanical lever is longer. It is common that these brakes progressively bind without increasing lever pressure. Any fault with this brake will likely drop you on your ass. I have found the brake very sensitive to pad material. If too soft, grip will increase suddenly without warning. The use of hard sintered pads seem to help this in my experience. | ||
| Dennis355 |
Had a situation at the Team Hammer school at Daytona in October. First session after lunch going into west horseshoe. Just barely leaned in and the front end felt like it locked up and washed out real fast. Low side but got bounced hard. After crash noticed front wheel had some restriction on freely turning. Have not had time to take apart and inspect. Have a Brembo radial master cylinder was on Michelin race tires front disk from EBR. Happened on the out lap was not totally up to speed. Front brake locking was my only guess. Previously had the back master cylinder lock once. The piston was locked up in the cylinder , had to disassemble and free up piston, | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Stock levers? Pazzo shorty levers. @Jdugger--I read about the overfilled MC res after the crash, and my fluid level was on the high side (no pun intended) but not what I considered overfilled...plus with the ambient temps being cool and the moderate pace I was running, I sorta ruled that out as a possible cause. not to say the MC wasn't the culprit somehow, but I don't think expanding fluid caused the brakes to seize. @Nikoff90--I am also going thru the front end as well. Bottom line is most likely I won't ever know exactly caused the crash, so I am going to replace/service everything, including replacing the Master Cylinder. @Dennis355--You had a bad experience with the Brembo MC? That's scary as I was choosing between the Brembo and the Accossato (the one EBR sells.) Anyone have feedback on a good replacement master cylinder? One that will retrofit easily and any improved performance would be a bonus! I would consider a Japanese replacement as they are usually reliable as we all know (and cheaper than the Italian options for sure!) I read about a ZX-10 fitting in another thread... | ||
| Nuts4mc |
Fresno go here: ( old style Hayabusa, integrated reservoir)scroll down for pix http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/633593.html?1306262895#POST2054310 radial M/C from a Gixxer...again scroll down for pix....TIGHT fit...need to be a decent wrench/mechanic to complete this mod... http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/701261.html?1355889126 good luck...hope this helps | ||
| Nikoff90 |
Makes you wonder how many people this has really happened too. Recall territory? this kind of thing could easily kill a person I know I almost got run over due to the lockup. | ||
| Crowley |
My first thought was levers too. Check it's not a Tuber fitment. | ||
| Rick_fears |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/580246.html?1279293875 https://nashville.craigslist.org/mcy/4370812772.ht ml Not mine. (Message edited by Rick_fears on April 09, 2014) | ||
| Nikoff90 |
Pulled the front end apart today everything looks to be in good condition, pads are Nissan look new, bearings spin freely, caliper pistons move freely and actually return with lever release. All seemed in alignment before disassemble so there is no apparent reason for the issue. Momentary master cylinder seizure? | ||
| S21125r |
I know this is a long shot but... is it possible you picked up a piece of debris that wedged between the muffler (stock?) and front wheel? I ask this because I hit a large piece of scrap rubber on the highway a few years back that did this and spit me off shortly after. When you are on the brakes and have the front compressed there isn't a whole lot of clearance there. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
Mileage on the bike total? Alignment may have looked okay visually but once/if you tear down the caliper you could easily find wear grooves in the pistons and/or damage to the seals or excessive grime on the pistons above the seals that wouldn't allow full retraction when hot. | ||
| Nikoff90 |
6200 miles. | ||
| Jetbuilder |
I had a bad crash last year broke my femur in two shoulder and three ribs. Excessive fork dive and front break lock inducing a flip. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
"Alignment may have looked okay visually but once/if you tear down the caliper you could easily find wear grooves in the pistons and/or damage to the seals or excessive grime on the pistons above the seals that wouldn't allow full retraction when hot." This seems like the most likely culprit IMO. I am accumulating parts to rebuild/service the front end. I got the EBR rebuild kit for the caliper and also the Accossato master cylinder. Puts a dent in the ol' pocketbook for sure, but I don't think I could ride the bike again without doing what i can to make sure it's as good as it can get mechanically. And it's damn cheap compared to the pain and suffering and medical bills after an injury...not to mention the fact our lives hang in the balance whenever we throw a leg over. BTW, my bike has 22 or 23K miles on it. Brakes have never been touched other than new fluid and pads. | ||
| Nikoff90 |
Mine PO had had new pads put on with tires. At 6200miles it would be doubtful that its damaged pistons + they move as freely as any I have ever seen. | ||
| Jetbuilder |
My med bills were 80,000.00 so yea trust me I am getting the BPH respring kit and brake upgrades... | ||
| Oldog |
Gents: In addition to my '08R I have an '01 x1 I had the front grab and drag due to issues with crap on the caliper pistons, the larger caliper is just a variation on the old 6 piston unit, Nikoff you mentioned that the PO replaced the pads, On the old bikes YOU MUST extend the pistons and clean the baked on brake dust off or you may have a drag lock problem, because the rings of cooked brake dust prevent the retraction, [ we are talking a few thousandths of an inch ] I caught mine just short of unexpected lockup, and remember one tuber rider having a mysterious crash due to lock up. I hope that this helps, get well soon Fresno.. | ||
| Nikoff90 |
Rebuilt forks, new tires, da sanded rotor out, cycled pistons and reused the Nissan pads. Took the bike out for a short test run and the brakes feel completely different as they do not want to lock up as quickly and have a better feel all-around. Oldog I will follow your advice and clean the pistons proper this week, this weekend was all about resting. Thanks for the advice. (Message edited by nikoff90 on April 20, 2014) | ||
| Sprintst |
I just did a caliper rebuild kit on mine (2009 that sat for 3 years, I've put 11k on it since) Amazing difference. Much better feel, minimal drag, better braking...... super super easy to do | ||
| Fresnobuell |
@Sprintst I assume you used the EBR kit? From what I can see it's basically the pistons and o-rings. Any tips on rebuilding or is it basically dummy-proof? @oldog Thanks for the thoughts. I am about 90% back physically. My left forearm is still not rotating out normally due to the damaged elbow. It's up to me to continue my physical therapy exercises to get that last 10%...and from the way I have been pulling all my golf shots and putts right (Im a lefty golfer) I'm gonna recommit myself to getting my elbow back to where it was before the accident.  | ||
| Jdugger |
> Any tips on rebuilding or is it basically dummy-proof? It's easy bench work. Open a beer, sit down, and enjoy it. Most of the work is cleaning. If you have an ultrasonic cleaner, it's not horrible to throw the split halves in the bath. If not, just clean it well with alcohol, then the reassemble with fresh DOT 4 lubricating all surfaces and seals. | ||
| Puddlepirate |
The EBR kit lists the kit as being "refurbished". Would there be any gain to pay a little extra to get a new set of parts, or are the refurbs suitable for a streetbike that may see a longer rebuild interval than a track bike? | ||
| Sprintst |
Yes, I bought the kit from EBR It's seals and pistons. Very easy, very dummy proof. Pull out the old pistons, take a small screwdriver or something similar and pull the old seals Clean up what needs cleaning. Lube the new seals with brake fluid, insert, insert pistons, reassemble, bleed That's it. The external torx bolts were the only "challenge" I finally found a 6 pt 10mm socket that worked I think. I've since bought the universal sockets from Sears that should fit it correctly (Message edited by Sprintst on April 24, 2014) | ||
| Sprintst |
Puddlepirate - is says "A refurbish brake piston and seal kit for the ZTL 2 brake caliper." This means it's a kit to refurb, not that the parts are refurbished These are new parts | ||
| Billardhockey |
I am putting a 2009 stator cover on a 2008 1125r. The 2008 does not have the gasket sealer to hold the wire in place while the 2009 does. I am using the stator from the 2008 so I do not have to change anything else. Do I need to clean out the old sealer or put some new sealer in? |
