| Author | Message | ||
     Rocket_in_uk |
If I was an entrenched bureaucracy like Honda or Suzuki, for sure I'd be running Evo rules this year. But they are not. As Matt said, they can have anything they like made in house or outsourced in an instant. A visit to Hondas racing HQ, Louth England will show you this. Raw materials. CNC machines. Engine dyno's. It's all there 24/7 if they need it. It's one of their two single greatest strengths a this point. Strength being entirely relative of course  Rocket in England | ||
| Reepicheep |
Absolutely! Why on earth do you think for a second any of us think for even a second that EBR is anything but a talented and dangerous underdog? And spare me lectures about offending your delicate Yorkshire sensibilities... If you or Matt are going to come on to a Buell Enthusiast site and lecture people about being EBR enthusiasts and wearing rose colored glasses, then put on your big boy underwear first. You big pansy.  | ||
| Bads1 |
And that's what I call cheer leading!! The heading says Buell racing and More. Im happy for Erik and Company but Im a race fan not a brand fan when it comes to racing. Follow the sport and the riders!!So lets talk racing. My pants are pulled up and I got a belt on too. | ||
| Bads1 |
A new platform?? | ||
| Gregtonn |
Some of you need a lesson in manners...given they appear to have their head up their arse. It would appear that Rocket is back to his old self and has a blurry view of the world through that hole in his navel. G | ||
| Bads1 |
I don't think so. Hes got a opinion... some don't like it so they slander for it. | ||
| Ljm |
I tend to agree with Dana, although I think that enough credit is not given to the long-term objectives and non-contributory to racing issues, they are entitled to them. I suspect they think us partisans are in denial, and I think their focus is myopic. They may be right about racing success this season. Didn't affect me buying one or two and won't affect the people doing demo rides either. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Absolutely! Why on earth do you think for a second any of us think for even a second that EBR is anything but a talented and dangerous underdog? A somewhat misleading answer given I was referring to the relativity of EBR being as you said, "able to turn on a dime, etc etc" as one of their two great strengths, when they are clearly not at all exclusive to them. It is you that is under some misconception by your own admittance that other teams are constrained in a way EBR are not. That is utter tosh mate. Honda as my example, have a state of the art manufacturing facility they can tap into instantly and have parts flow anywhere in the world if it came to it. EBR might have similar available to them. If so it is not one of their two great strengths when other teams. Great teams of long standing experience and success at that. Have the same. Talented underdog as EBR may be. This is the big league. Not poxy AMA. And spare me lectures about offending your delicate Yorkshire sensibilities... If you or Matt are going to come on to a Buell Enthusiast site and lecture people about being EBR enthusiasts and wearing rose colored glasses, then put on your big boy underwear first. You big pansy. You're an idiot Bill. My comment made no reference to mine or Matt's regionality. Nor did I come to a Buell site and lecture anyone about wearing rose tinted glasses. What is pitiful is American's playing this nationality card whenever it suits. Fact is, Matt will know more about racing than most. Perhaps even more than Erik Buell. So, what is clear (well at least to some) are the strange decisions thus far taken by EBR since kicking off their campaign in WSBK this year. In particular the recent testing program. This is what Matt is talking about. This is what I agree with him upon. This is not either of us coming to a buell enthusiasts forum lecturing anyone. How you get to such a conclusion is ignorant and inflammatory. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Didn't affect me buying one or two and won't affect the people doing demo rides either. You might just have hit the nail on the head there. My suspicions aroused most recently. This, at least for the moment, increasingly looking like a go racing publicity stunt rather than a full on onslaught towards WSBK worthy prominence. As this topic shows, EBR's will sell just for them being on the grid without so much as turning a wheel. I might add, as they deservedly should do. WSBK racing or not. Rocket in England | ||
| Xb984r |
I want the bike that finished last, said no one | ||
| Jaimec |
All right, the secret is out. I bought my K1200LT back in 1999 because it was the winningest bike in the AMA Professional Racing Grand Touring series... And EVERYBODY bought the air-cooled Buells because they simply DOMINATED superbike races, too. | ||
| Riohondohank |
Only those that can't think for themselves buy only race winners. I have aways bought what appeals to me (usually a twin or maybe a 3 cylinder ). After all most of us can't ride the last bike in the race to it's potential anyway. | ||
| Ljm |
Bingo, Hank. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
And EVERYBODY bought the air-cooled Buells because they simply DOMINATED superbike races, too. Statistically EVERYBODY didn't buy air cooled Buells. Thousands bought Japanese and Italian superbikes. Many because they DID dominate superbike races. Only those that can't think for themselves buy only race winners. The UK is the spiritual home of motorcycle racing. Over here racing sells bikes BIG TIME. Not because people who do buy can't think for themselves. But because these buyers want to experience the thrill of the bikes they see being raced. I don't imagine for a moment America is any different. This is why many will NOT buy an EBR in favour of a Japanese or Italian superbike. Logic suggests these American buyers did think for themselves in choosing not to buy American. The same could perhaps not be said of some who buy an EBR through brand loyalty. They could be an example of some buyers not thinking for themselves. Rocket in England | ||
| M1combat |
Street bikes are different than race bikes. If you don't "think" so then go buy a fake race bike. If you do think... Go buy a great street bike. I'm beginning to recall why Rocket was banned for so long. | ||
| Simond |
Ahem..........I suspect that the whole exercise has more to do with selling Hero bikes than EBRs. If it allows Erik to build the bikes he wants to build and go racing at the same time then that sounds great to me. If he can then build a wider range of bikes that appeal to me then even better. | ||
| Trojan |
Street bikes are different than race bikes. Only those that can't think for themselves buy only race winners. Odd how Honda seem to sell out of Repsol replica Frieblades dater thant eh otehr colours, and Ducati didn't do too badly with their 'Hayden repica' Ducati scheme a few years ago in the USA. Why do you think Yamaha pay Rossi and Lorenzo a fortune to stand in front of their road bikes in magazine adverts? Like it or not......People who watch racing actually do take notice of who wins (and loses) , and I'll bet a pound to a pinch of sh*t that the winners sell more bikes. Just a hunch of course. EBR is in racing for their own reasons, whetehr that is to get publicity or sell bieks or just do research. Whatever it is, they won't do their reputation any good by coming last, or conversely any harm if they can manage to get a decent result. | ||
| Blake |
>>> they won't do their reputation any good by coming last They've never come last. But even if they did, the fact that they entered the fray absolutely does their reputation good. If the bikes blow up repeatedly, like the MVs did in AMA SBK racing some time ago, then you might argue it a net negative. One could note the current home page of www.wsbk.com for instance.  The unfortunate flub of filling the bikes with an extra quart of oil and costing the bike 20 RWHP ought to temper the doomsaying. | ||
| 46champ |
Too bad the WSB bikes have to run fake lights looks dumb. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I'm beginning to recall why Rocket was banned for so long. Thanks for your support. In future I'll try not to have an opinion worth contributing. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
But even if they did, the fact that they entered the fray absolutely does their reputation good. I can see how you would believe such (EBR) - in America. Outside of might be very different. Rocket in England | ||
| Court |
>>>I'm beginning to recall why Rocket was banned for so long. That's uncalled for and not in the spirit of these discussions. It's rude. >>>I'm beginning to recall why Rocket was banned for so long. Look at it this way . . . . EBR sales have skyrocketed in 2014 compared to 2013. And . .. HERO, following the introduction of their first "EBR collaboration" experienced a $300,000,000 gain in market cap. I'll bet they continue on precisely the path they are on and have excellent results. Smart folks with strong funding . . . . I have high hopes. | ||
| Bads1 |
The unfortunate flub of filling the bikes with an extra quart of oil and costing the bike 20 RWHP ought to temper the doomsaying. Sure in hell won't hurt. But Id like to see how well the bike would do with a WSM rider that is a top five finisher in the past but mainly very familiar with the tracks along side May. | ||
| Satori |
OK so I have an open question. Can anyone tell me a motorcycle that in its first year of production, (let’s say this century) having no previous itineration’s, that won immediately at the track? Any brand, from any country? Much less having never turned a wheel before its first race? Now I will admit I have not followed moto racing well, that's why I ask. It seems to me, that most of the times, a new team, with a new bike takes a year or two to get up to consistently winning. Team EBR has had One race, in which there were some bone headed moves ( to much oil added) but yea, no one else has ever made a stupid move while racing. So personally I am thinking they are learning from any mistakes, because they do have some smart people running the team. Will they win the season, well most likely not. But that doesn't mean they don't get some valuable data that makes them serious contenders in the near future. Erik and the elves, please continue. | ||
| Trojan |
Can anyone tell me a motorcycle that in its first year of production, (let’s say this century) having no previous itineration’s, that won immediately at the track? Any brand, from any country? Ducati 916 (and every variant of it), Ducati 999, Ducati 1198, Honda SP1 + SP2 variant, Yamaha R1, Suzuki GSXR600,750,1000 and going back further....Almost every Yamaha air cooled and water cooeld 2 stroke customer race bike. In fact the list is almost endless. Much less having never turned a wheel before its first race? That isn't exactly true either. The RX is a development of the RS and that had been raced for at least a year in AMA. The bike would have had constant development before it was releasesd to the public and after, so it is certainly not true that it had not turned a wheel before Philip Island. If you are referring to the 'actual' race bikes that the team have. I don't believe any team would arrive at a circuit with a race bike that they hadn't ridden at all, even if it is a brief shakedown test. If it is true that the bikes hadn't turned a whell at all before reaching their first WSb race then you would have to question the professionalism of the team concerned. As for the oil overfill issue, correct me if I am wrong but that was in the biks that ran at Daytona, not in WSB wasn't it? I don't remember any mention of oil issues in the WSb bikes. One could note the current home page of www.wsbk.com for instance. Blake that is just a general news page and features any news form all of the WSB teams whenever they put out a press release. It isn't a particular 'plug' for EBR but just a press release from the team to the organisers. You have cleverly clipped the page but it actually has news from Honda, kawasaki/KRT, Suzuki, grid girls and Jerez testing. The articles seem to get rotated every so often so that one is slightly larger (probably to increase SEO) as yesterday that same EBR piece was on a side bar. | ||
| Trojan |
It will interesting to see how the new Bimota compares at Aragon with the other new teams. Both Iddon and Badovini will be at Aragon after a dismal test spoiled by wet weather in Portugal leaves them 'behind the other WSB teams'. As an EVO entry they are not directly competing with the other new teams EBR and MV on the same levels, but it will be good to see the comparison in performance between what is probably going to be one of the leading EVO setups and the full factory bikes. Both riders know the tracks and should be up to speed pretty quickly, Badovini in particular knows the engine having been a factory supported BMW rider in the past. | ||
| Classax |
I'm find it difficult to understand why some have such a hard time wrapping their minds around the ides that racing can be a tool for other objectives besides race winning in and of itself. We shall soon see if the race team has been able to exorcize the inaugural race speed demons and run closer to mid pack pace. Especially since one of the duo was on track to participate in super pole despite said demons. | ||
| Trojan |
I'm find it difficult to understand why some have such a hard time wrapping their minds around the ides that racing can be a tool for other objectives besides race winning in and of itself. The reason that pretty much every team goes racing is to win (or get as close as possible). That is the whole point of racing anything from lawn mowers to F1 and everything in between. Any team that says otherwise is just telling huge porky pies or wrapping it up in PR BS I'm afraid. If your objective as a bike manufacturer is just to test and develop new parts for road bikes then you can do that much easier and certainly much more cost effectively by testing in private. That way you can change whatever you like, whenever you like and test for huge mileages without all the rules, limited track time and other kerphuffle of racing aginst other people. Racing is probably the most expensive and least efective way of testing parts. If your aim is to advertise your brand then you can't achieve that by running around at the back of the field, as that only generates mostly negative publicity (if that) and very very little TV exposure. Which means that you have to in the top 5 really to get any decent TV coverage and achieve your advertising aims. Either way, nobody goes racing at WSB level intending to just ride around and enjoy themselves for an afternoon. | ||
| Crusty |
You know, Matt; you're absolutely right. EBR should not be out there racing in WSBK. They should slink home quietly and build a world beating superbike. They can develop it at local tracks like Blackhawk Farms to get it ready. Then they should hire a couple of experienced race winning WSBK riders, test only at venues where the other teams are testing at, then they can dominate the series. To do anything less would be to invite the criticism of pundits who know how it should be done and subject them to ridicule. | ||
| Hughlysses |
As for the oil overfill issue, correct me if I am wrong but that was in the biks that ran at Daytona, not in WSB wasn't it? I don't remember any mention of oil issues in the WSb bikes. It was found first at Daytona; Larry Pegram's crew had added an extra quart of oil as is standard practice for racing Ducatis. As a result of the extra oil, the top speed of Larry's bike was something like ~15 MPH slower than Cory West's bike at Daytona. EBR then asked the WSBK crews and found the same thing had been done at Phillip Island. Dyno testing showed it robbed ~20 HP from the bikes. (Message edited by Hughlysses on April 07, 2014) |
