| Author | Message | ||
     Nvbuell |
Who owns the rights to the 1125? Does Erik now own it or does Harley? Anyone have a past link to the info? | ||
| Matteson |
Does anybody? Since it isn't being produced then how can you own rights to it? Maybe the name and motor are copyrighted by Harley? Good question dude. | ||
| Stevel |
If you read the Cycle World article, this question was addressed on the second page. The Rotax motor was co-designed by Buell and Rotax. When Buell shut down, the design reverted back to Rotax. HD then allowed the rights to the design to be purchased by EBR from Rotax. EBR now owns the sole rights to the design. | ||
| Nvbuell |
Stevel; Thanks. I remembering reading that Erik was in on the design of the engine and seeing a video on Youtube with Erik talking about it. Do you have a link to that article in Cycle World? | ||
| Court |
There was an entire team of Buell employees in Austria, working hand in hand with Rotax engineers, during the development of the Helicon motor. There was also a 10 year moratorium in which Roatax could not transfer Buell technology to other products and manufacturers. | ||
| Nvbuell |
Thanks Court. I know that Rotax has been building a 976 v-twin for placement in the Bombardier/Can AM Commander ATV's. Neighbor has one of the two seater versions. Moves it around pretty good. | ||
| Stevel |
@NVBuell, Here it is http://cyclenews.uberflip.com/i/262687 It's Cycle News not Cycle World.....sorry | ||
| Nvbuell |
Stevel; Great. Thanks! | ||
| Jdugger |
I think HD also had to pay a $10M+ exit fee from that contract with Rotax. | ||
| Trojan |
I know that Rotax has been building a 976 v-twin for placement in the Bombardier/Can AM Commander ATV's. Rotax also built the original Aprilia RSV engine and the initial KTM RC8 motors (as well as the BMW F650 single amongst others). Pity they didn't use the established Aprilia/KTM clutch design on the 1125 when they had the chance. It would have saved a lot of problems with leaking seals later  | ||
| Crowley |
I think HD also had to pay a $10M+ exit fee from that contract with Rotax. They probably used the money they gained when they sold MV to offset this loss......  | ||
| Hootowl |
HD paid more to shut down Buell than they had ever invested in it.  | ||
| Skymonkeyone |
It's pretty fascinating to me how much disparity there is among "former" Buell dealing HD shops about who will/can/won't work on Buells these days. When I was still living in Fayetteville, NC the local dealer, Cape Fear HD, refused to even look at Buells after the split, even though they still had factory trained techs and Buell-specific tools in their service department. That was DUMB. Conversely, here in Arizona, Chandler HD still willingly works on my 1125 R and loves my business. | ||
| Wymaen |
Check out http://www.motopodcast.com/ Episode 392 Or: http://www.motopodcast.com/podcasts/Motopod_2014-0 1-22.mp3 Skip to 02:13:58 to hear an interview with Erik Buell. He specifically addresses the engine question at roughly 02:20:30, but the entire interview is edifying and enjoyable to listen to. | ||
| Twobuells |
The 976cc (1000) Can am engines are 60 degrees. I have one in my Renegade. What a beast! 4x4, power steering, fox shocks. | ||
| Classax |
If you read the Cycle World article, this question was addressed on the second page. The Rotax motor was co-designed by Buell and Rotax. When Buell shut down, the design reverted back to Rotax. HD then allowed the rights to the design to be purchased by EBR from Rotax. EBR now owns the sole rights to the design. Just to be clear, Rotax Co-Designed but did not manufacture the Helicon. It was designed exclusively for and built by Buell. It was never a "Rotax" engine but the design for the Helicon was. The new 1190RX is powered by an ET-VT engine which is an evolutionary redesign of the Helicon with almost all the parts sourced from and completely assembled( manufactured)in the US of A. | ||
| S21125r |
Class – I couldn’t tell if you were referring to the 1125 or the 1190 in some cases. At any rate, this is what I know of it which isn’t any more than what I’ve read recently. Just to be clear, Rotax Co-Designed but did not manufacture the Helicon. Rotax did manufacture the 1125 Helicon. Rotax casted the cases and jugs - the remainder of parts were sourced from suppliers. Engine assembly was done by Rotax. 1190 different animal and different story. It was designed exclusively for and built by Buell. The 1125 engine was co-designed exclusively for Buell by Buell and Rotax - yes. Built by Buell No. 1190 iteration built by EBR Yes. It was never a "Rotax" engine… Correct – at least for the first 10 years of the contract that is now null/void anyway. …but the design for the Helicon was. Probably just semantics and legalese but it was a co-design between Buell employees and Rotax employees with Rotax holding the rights at that time – which is now a moot point. The new 1190RX is powered by an ET-VT engine which is an evolutionary redesign of the Helicon with almost all the parts sourced from and completely assembled( manufactured)in the US of A. Agreed - at least the part about the ET-VT being evolutionary and assembled in the US by EBR. Parts? Hard to say. My understanding is that EBR found a new US supplier for the cases/jugs that Rotax casted and the path of least resistance would dictate that EBR probably re-connected with a majority of Rotax’s 1125 suppliers for the parts that are common to the 1190 (speculating… gear sets?, gaskets, bearing, oil/water pump, balance shafts, fasteners, etc). I don’t know what the domestic/foreign content was for the original 1125 engine but I think it would be reasonable to believe that the 1190 engine still has some carryover foreign content from it’s previous incarnation of the Buell/Rotax offering. | ||
| Classax |
No harm no foul, its kind of a Kleenex vs tissue thing. A better way to say it would have been the Helicon was never a Rotax brand product. We have the same problems in the Saxophone Community. Buffet/Keilwerth designed and produced a number of brands including Couf Superbas, similar as they are, Couf's are not Keilwerths and no Buffet would ever be confused for either of the two. The differences in design, specs, and even manufacturing techniques went far deeper than just a simple rebranding. The Helicon is much the same way for BRP... aka Rotax. US content on the 1190 is actually quite high, although there is a fair amount of product from across the globe. |
