| Author | Message | ||
     Bomber |
Mr Witt it's official -- I know have a severe case of pickup envy! what a sweet ride! | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
You poor babies, UK unleaded is around $1.45 a litre, that's about 6 bucks a US gallon. So excuse us Europeans not having a lot of sympathy for you. Personally I'm with Jim Witt, Nice truck Jim, what you running in it? I'm waiting for my new toy to arrive here, a '68 Dodge D100 with 318, Offy inlet, Holley 4 barrel, tube headers & B&M shifter. If you want fun you got to pay for it, I don't smoke (much) I don't drink (much) I don't gamble (with money), I just burn gas & rubber. Ain't no substitute for it! (& I don't fall asleep straight afterwards either)  | ||
| Mikej |
Yeah Jim, that is a sweet C.O.E. I've always liked those in a funky sort of way. | ||
| Hootowl |
What's the tax on gas (or petrol if you prefer) over on your side of the pond Mr_Grumpy? I agree with the baby remark. People want to drive big SUV's but son't want to pay the price. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
I think it's around 80% or more (ouch) | ||
| Hootowl |
Do you think the high fuel tax tends to make people drive more fuel efficient cars? People here say they like to drive the big SUV's because it makes them feel safer. That's true, but only if you hit a Honda. If you hit another big SUV, you're dealing with just as much deceleration trauma as you would had you both been driving smaller cars. That argument doesn't wash with me. This is one area where I lean to the left. I'm all for mandating higher MPG. Not AVERAGE MPG of all cars sold, but setting a minimum for each type of vehicle. | ||
| Bomber |
mandating is one way, hitting people in their wallets is another . . . .Europe started tax horsepower directly at the beginning of the automotive age, and efficience, indirectly, fairly soon after . . . .. their fuel taxes have been much much higher than US fuel taxes for so long that it's ingrained in their industries . . . . I agree that average fuel economy doesn't work . . .it's liek th air pollution standards that allow clean companies to sell their clean point to dirty companies . . .. net net it equals more pollution | ||
| Nevco1 |
I'm all for mandating higher MPG. Not AVERAGE MPG of all cars sold, but setting a minimum for each type of vehicle. Hoot...I get the feeling that those are pretty much the same and the MSRP is the deciding factor. You want big or fast, you pay for it. One interesting approach was California's proposed "Soccer Mom" Tax on SUV's, etc. One of the key issues that cost former Gov Gray Davis his job. Then again he was the biggest political joke ever in that State. Also, I think "average" is good as it is also used in the EPA approvals. Kind of like your XB12 can pollute a little more because the Blast's, etc. make up for the difference. When you think about it "average" and "minimum by type" are pretty much the same. Of interest, it is the consumer is ultimately responsible for even more restrictive legislation. They can do it by merit of skewing a manufacturers sales and subsequent production toward the lower mileage, higher polluting vehicles. Catch 22! Buy what you (collectively) want and not what you need and you end up shooting yourself in the foot. | ||
| Dullorb |
Right now and for the past few years the only petrol consuming device I have had is my buell. You could triple gas prices and I wouldn't even blink. Not saying it's a good idea to do so but I have no sympathy for the average Joe complaining about the $40 tank of gas they had to buy. | ||
| Firemanjim |
Nevco,Davis was a friend to the firefighters in CA and was instrumental in signing several bills benefiting us(cancer presumptive and decent retirement to equal law enforcement)--and the biggest political joke here in CA is that we have another damn actor running the show.(P.S. and you live in CA???) | ||
| Andys |
Did you guys know that Chrysler's PT Crusier is classifed a truck for the truck CAFE ratings? Here's why; when you average the fuel economy of the PT with the rest of Dodge's trucks (V8's and V10's)it keeps them within the CAFE numbers they have to meet. How did they get it classied as such (other than paying off someone in Washington)? Because you can change the configuration of the rear floor. How do they get you to buy enough PT's to make a difference? In the beginning of the PT's cycle it was believed that Dodge was losing money on each unit, but that wasn't a problem since that allowed Dodge to sell more of high profit trucks which clearly made up the difference. And then some. Side Note: Jeep makes over $10k profit (before it hits the dealer) on each Grand Cherokee (source: Autoweek magazine). I too believe we Americans are making a huge mistake with our consumption habits. But who am I? I drive a Honda Civic that gets 34mpg so that fuel prices don't hurt me too much and will not buy a car that gets less than 25mpg (if I ever get a job). Someday something's going to happen. I don't know what, but I do fear that day. | ||
| Featheredfiend |
The comments by those who work in the oil industry provide good insight into some of the dynamics of oil prices. However, this statement: "...also comodities traders cause price jumps on their speculation of everthing from weather/refinery/shipping/transportation problems." is misleading in that it makes no acknowledgement that traders are just as likely to sell a commodity, driving the price down. Something that has not been mentioned is that all oil is traded in US dollars. feathered | ||
| Ray_maines |
Any car that has a rear seat that folds flat into the floor or is removable is a "Truck" according to our all knowing government. That includes mini vans and small SUV's. Besides the gas mileage issue that Andy points out, these "Trucks" tend to have less passenger safety equipment and don't do as well in crash tests as a similar size "Car". | ||
| Phillyblast |
On a related note, I used to own a Subaru Brat with jump seats in the back, complete with seat belts (my quad fit perfectly - the front wheels went into the seats, and I belted it in  ). The seats got it classified as a "car", saving a 28% import tax on trucks. Times have changed. I think I paid a hundred bucks for it. Friend of mine just bought a Prius - it really cool, but fugly looking. I'm still contemplating getting rid of the Mustang GT, especially since it looks like my commute will increase substantially soon, but it does get mid-high 20s on the highway - any suggestions for decent power and good mileage? With some storage? Mazda 3 looks like a decent bet - advertised 30 MPG highway, but open to suggestions. | ||
| Andys |
Phillyblast, The 3 is a very nice car; very hot looking. That chassis is also the basis for the european FocusII, which won't come to the US. If you plan on buying a 2 door, then you owe it to yourself to look at Honda's Civic Si. I feel the motor is better (smoother, more powerful, same 30mpg), the seats are killer, its got this really killer shifter sticking out of the dash (just like rally cars) and it has Honda's known reliability (not to say Mazda's is bad). But if you're a Ford man, then the 3 is a great choice. The aftermarket will have things available for it soon, as will Mazda through their Mazdaspeed division. | ||
| Phillyblast |
Andy, Looked at the Civic, but the 3 comes in a five-door hatchback - big bonus. I'll give it another look, though - got a little time to make a decision and Honda's have a well-deserved rep. for reliability. Read that apparently the Volvo S40 is also based on the same FocusII chassis, btw, but the actual US Ford Focus won't get it. I wonder if (back on topic) it's because the old chassis, with the 2.0 liter 4 banger, gets better MPG, helping CAFE for all the Expeditions? | ||
| Andys |
Funny, I was wondering if you wanted the 5 door. That's a hot car too. The aftermarket will be all over that thing too. Nice interior. As for the S40, you'll pay more, get a really nice interior, available 4 wheel drive (I believe) and an R version down the road. But you won't have the cargo capacity. I'm not sure what type of fuel mileage to expect, especially in the R. I believe you are correct about the S40 and 3 being on the same chassis. As for why we stay with the old Focus, I think it's a financal thing (Ford US has been bleeding red ink for a few years now), plus they are about to release some sort of hybrid version. I also think they wanted to avoid certifying the new chassis and retooling the plants right now. What pisses me off is that they dropped the SVT version for this year. Although I have to admit I wasn't (couldn't) buy one anyway. I do think they did a nice job on the new Mustang however. I always liked the looks of the late '60 'stangs. The motor is a redesigned 4.6 liter; 300hp stock in the GT. Very nice for the price. Just hope they haven't cheaped out on the seats. | ||
| Darthane |
FocusII...I may get stuck working on that POS...Christ, I need to get away from Fords. Ditto what Ray said, Andy - Dodge has no say in how the government classifies vehicles, nor does any other automaker. It was actually a clever use of the system on their part to give the PT qualities that got it classified as a truck. The government CAFE ratings are getting and will get more increasingly stringent, yet the public's demand has not changed. People who buy large pickups and SUVs want power. Truck power means displacement. Displacement means poor gas mileage, no ifs ands or buts about it. You can get away with 45mpg small cars because people don't buy them to haul shit. Come spend some time over here in Japan. Virtually everything has a turbo. Why? Because it's the only freaking way to get a decent amount of power out of the 1400cc engines they put in cars. Of course, most of their cars have a curb weight of a metric ton or less, so... Anyways, buy what you want, accept the consequences. Personally I exhibited a little (note: a little) restraint and didn't get the 5.9L for the exact reason we're discussing in this thread. My poor little 4.7L does everything I need and want of it. It's also made me a better driver. And it revs to nearly 7K. Try that in a Suburban! LOL Bryan | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
What's the price of diesel over there? In Europe (apart from the UK) diesel is generally a good bit cheaper than petrol (gas) & lpg (liquefied petroleum gas)is about half. The diesel car market is very strong over here, I've got 2, an Alfa Romeo 164, 4 cyl 2.5lt turbo-d and an Opel Omega (in the US it was sold as a Cadillac Catera) with a 2.5 straight six beemer turbo-d. The Alfa turns in around 28-30 mpg & the Opel 30-32 mpg. Not bad for big 4 door sedans. The market for lpg is also taking off with manufacturers now producing dual fuel models off the line. Lpg gives slightly less mileage & power, but is cleaner & cheaper to run. Some of the Bus companies also run their vehicles on CNG compressed natural gas. The problem with both gas solutions has been the necessary infrastructure for filling up, lpg stations are spreading fast though & I can't help but think that as soon as it becomes popular enough the tax will rise. Nothing beats the music of a V8 though, it gives me the same ear to ear grin as the M2. | ||
| Andys |
darthane, I understand fully. I remember reading that Chrysler was allowed to certify the PT as a truck for CAFE, but certified it as a car for safety equipment. I just remember thinking how the law allowed them to circumvent certain laws to allow the sale of V8's and V10's. Now don't get me wrong, I love V8's. And I'm with Mr Grumpy, their sound through dual exhaust is intoxicating; one of life's most beautiful sounds. I just can't afford the fuel for them. Like you guys, I dealt with $5 per gallon fuel while in Israel during the 80's and it had a lot to do with shaping what I buy today. I think I could afford fuel prices up to $3.50/gallon before I have to seriously change my driving habits. We have it extremely easy here in the US with fuel prices; even it they do reach $3/gallon. I just think that someday soon, something big is going happen and I fear that day. | ||
| Tavs |
I got 1 question about gas: I understand when the price of crude drops it takes some weeks to realize these savings at the pump. Why is it, however, when there is some sudden change in oil production (war, OPEC announcement, etc.) are price increases realized INSTANTANEOUSLY? I mean, the gas in the underground tanks was purchased weeks ago at a lower rate, right? | ||
| Darthane |
Because just as with any business, you take whatever advatage youo can get. Convenient excuses to raise prices, even before there is a true underrlying reason? | ||
| Bomber |
Grumpy Diesel's not a lot cheaper than patrol in the US (damn near as much as petrol, in fact) . . . . diesel autos enjoyed a surge of popularity here right after the fuel scare of the 70s .. . . .unfortunately, many us makers made diesel versions of gas-fueld engines, with predictable results (that is, abyussmal results) . . . don't see many over here, but our fuel tax situation isn't nearly as punative as in much of Europe . . . .. only two ways to make sure you won't be elected . . .. suggest gun control, or curtail people's vehicular choices . . .. . | ||
| Smitty |
Grumpy Diesel also here has a much higher sulfur content. The Government tailpipe emissions for cars make diesel cars an expensive proposition for carmakers clean them up. Although in 2006 we will have the lower sulfur fuel you have in Europe and we will see more diesel autos here | ||
| Phillyblast |
What's the word on hybrid SUVs? I keep hearing they're coming, but I haven't seen any solid news. It's depressing to see a "Compact SUV" like say the KIA that gets 15 mpg. Hybrid tech would, in my uninformed HO, be a perfect fit for such a beast. | ||
| Darthane |
Ford/Mazda were working on a hybrid of the Escape/Tribute. I haven't been involved in that for nearly two years, though, and it may have been scrapped. I sincerely doubt you will ever (in America, at least) see a hybrid full-sized or even mid-sized SUV. The performance impact is too great for us HP/Torque mongers. Add to that the inflated drivetrain cost of an already over-priced vehicle and you've got a great recipe for a flop. I expect diesels will become the engine du jour for full sized trucks and SUVs long before any hybrid or fuel-cell powertrain. Bryan | ||
| Andys |
Toyota (sorry--Lexus) will soon release a hybrid version of their RX330 crossover SUV, using the same technology as the Prius. I think a Camry is also in the works. Over on the Honda side, they will be releasing a hyrid version of the Accord V6. As for Ford's Tribute, I believe they still plan on releasing an electric/gas motor hybrid, but I think it's been pushed back 2006. | ||
| Darthane |
LOL...thats the last year for that model vehicle, anyways (Ford's Escape). I'm across the pond working on it's supposed replacement. Ford was supposed to come out with hybrid versions of both the Focus and Escape for 2005, but I've seen neither hide nor hair of either one recently. Boneheads...making hybrid versions of a car that already gets excellent mileage and an already underpowered SUV. The Prius redesign was a huge step forward for Toyota - the original was tiny and butt ugly, but excellent prroof-of-concept. Kudos to them for being the first to get a true hybrid production vehicle rolling. I seem to recall reading that that car was a huge gamble for them to begin with - in the early stages they were being sold at a $4000+ loss to get interest sparked before demand caught up and made up the difference in volume. I would imagine they are at the front of the pack as far as newe hybrid vehicles go, since they were first to begin with. I am kind of surprised to see something like that go into a Lexus - I wouldn't think people who buy them really give a rat's ass about how much the gas costs them, but then again, they are already expensive so it might be easier for potential buyers to swallow the added cost of the hybrid drivetrain. Bryan | ||
| Andys |
There's an editorial by P. Bedard on the Prius in this month's Car and Driver. I thought it was interesting. My sister bought a Civic hybrid , before the current Prius came out, and loves it. She bought it for enviormental reasons. She feels she simply doing her part to help. I however, love horsepower and buy as much as I can afford. Which leaves me with a Civic Ex and two old motorcycles. Bryan, What areas are you responsible for in design? I love what you engineers do, I just never had the ability to do it. | ||
| Phillyblast |
Bryan, Friend of mine just bought his mom a Prius - he lives in the city, only needs a car occasionally, so this way he can borrow hers without guilt). He said surprisingly its pretty quick. I think you hit the nail on the head re: the already high price of an SUV making it a perfect candidate. |
