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Rdkingryder
| | Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 12:58 pm: | 
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If it was a lack of lubrication, I can see it galling enough to seize and then break apart as in the picture. |
Brother_in_buells
| | Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 03:43 pm: |
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The lubrication on these tensioners is not that easy or good to do with the small grease nipple.
And i think that in some cases the thread from the heim-joint bottoms out (to early) because the nut is not at the correct distance and creates a lot of force on the pivot till it breaks! |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 03:51 pm: |
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Do you have or ever used a FST on a Buell bike? |
D_adams
| | Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 03:52 pm: |
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One thing you guys don't see in that pic is on the bracket at point A, there is a small roll pin, exactly where it broke and separated at. THAT is the weak link, at least to me. I am not an engineer, but I don't see the point in putting it there, it weakens that side of the machined part. |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 04:23 pm: |
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Yeah whatever. |
Brother_in_buells
| | Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 04:32 pm: |
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Do you have or ever used a FST on a Buell bike?
Yep i have one!
it was already a used-one when i got it and had no grease on/in it at all.
And i also did see ,when you do not turn the nut to tension the small spring ,the spring does noting at all. |
Rbuck53
| | Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 04:38 pm: |
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I think from the earlier posts, and the posted photos, we can confidently say that the failures are occurring at the point where the split pin has been inserted into the surround of the pivot bolt. The question is why is the metal failing here?
When answering, keep in mind, some of the units like mine, have logged thousands of trouble free miles already and still appear to be in excellent condition.
Is it due to poor design?
Is it because of metal fatigue?
Is it because of steady wear of the aluminum bore to the point of breakage?
Is it due to improper installation?
Is it due to intercession of a foreign object?
Is it due to improper adjustment?
Or any combination of the above? |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 04:49 pm: |
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"it was already a used-one when i got it and had no grease on/in it at all". So is that a design fault or that of the past owner IE Like any other used part can be. Mine were new, fine and never failed. If you use a used part then you have no or little idea of how they have been used.
"the spring does noting at all". Yes it does and is explained in the paperwork that comes with the FST as does the maintenance, fitting and setup of this device. |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 04:53 pm: |
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OK so just dont Fecking buy one. End of for me. Go buy a Honda. |
Ftd
| | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 07:14 am: |
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I have had a FST on my 06 ULY for a handful of yrs and maybe 15000 miles. No issues. Definitely relieves some of the tension on the belt. How can that be a bad thing?
At the very least it looks cool.
I have never broke a belt but when I went to the 2010 wheel I went to the newest edition belt too so original belt only had 25000 miles on it before becoming a spare.
YMMV
Frank |
Trojan
| | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 07:49 am: |
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we can confidently say that the failures are occurring at the point where the split pin has been inserted into the surround of the pivot bolt.
I think we need to intorduce a bit of scale here. We have sold hundreds of FST belt tensioners since 2003. Other retailers have sold just as many I am sure, so there are probably thousands of them out there by now (The majority of UK Buell XB's has one fitted by now I would think, and they are THE recommended accessory on UKBEG).
The total number of failures that I have heard of is around 5. Some of these have ben caused by a complete and utter lack of maintenance(this is a moving part and should at least be kept free enough of crud to keep it moving!), another was caused when the owner decided to strip it to powder coat it, then assembled it incorrectly and overtightened the pivot point. There was a small batch in around 2004 that had been overtorqued at manufacture, and these were recalled and fixed either by us or by Free Spirits. It may be that one or two of these missed the recall and ultimately broke, but I can't say for sure.
The bottom line is that the failure rate for these parts is tiny compared to the amount sold and used. I'm sure that there are more failures of stock belt tensioner bearings/rear wheel bearings/belts caused by NOT having an FST than actual FST failures. I don't have statistical evidence but based on comments and conversations with many many owners over the last 12 years I have a lot of experience to base this on.
At the end of the day the choice is with the owner, they aren't compulsory  |
Rbuck53
| | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 10:22 am: |
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Trojan,
Quite frankly my FS Tensioner is on my bike to stay. It is serving me very well, thank you.
In a few of the earlier posts FS stated that this tensioner was revised/updated. But when asked about that revision, and what exactly had been revised on the tensioner, no particular answer was given. I am sure that the revision was instituted because some part of the tensioner was deemed as needing improvement. What was this change..and why? Can the owners of this product tell if we have the earlier or the later version of the tensioner? Thanks! |
Trojan
| | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 11:43 am: |
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In a few of the earlier posts FS stated that this tensioner was revised/updated. But when asked about that revision, and what exactly had been revised on the tensioner, no particular answer was given.
The tensioner has not changed in design or manufacturer since it was introduced back in 2003. The only change at all is that the bevel on the rear side was made slightly deeper to fit later models exhaust mount. Other than that it is the same as ever.
I think there is some confusion sometimes over the name sometimes used as 'modified belt tensioner'. It hasn't actually been modified since inception but is simply modified in comparison with the stock unit. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 03:07 pm: |
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Matt, can you elaborate on the service life of the individual parts? Wasn't there also a specified bearing or spring life that turned it into a service item?
Not that my opinion should carry any special weight, I am just giving it to show I'm not just throwing stones, I'm just trying to describe the actual total costs of ownership for the device.
I am not for or against the tensioner. I originally thought it was snake oil (because I had a 9sx that clearly didn't need it), but after I felt the new to me Uly wallow and bind up over a bump, I changed my opinion to "it is one of a couple ways to solve a real problem that occurs on some but not all bikes". And the coolest looking approach for sure.
(Message edited by reepicheep on January 27, 2014) |
Arcticktm
| | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 05:20 pm: |
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I have no real opinion on the FST (my '06 Uly is stock, 2 rear bearing failures and now a '10 rear wheel, no belt failures yet in 30k miles), but if you really want to get a feel for how the belt gets tighter and/or looser as the suspension goes through its travel, why not do the old dirt bike standby to see how much chain slack is needed on a given bike:
Disconnect one end of (or remove) rear shock with bike on a stand.
Move your suspension up and down and see what happens to belt tension as you do.
Then you can make your own decision.
Maybe I'll do this before spring if I get curious enough.
I recall some older KTM manuals telling you to do this to verify how much slack was needed to keep the chain from binding and limiting your suspension travel (and putting bad loads on your chain and bearings).
The (short lived) BMW dirt bike avoided this problem by making the swingarm pivot and the countershaft sprocket coaxial. That had it's own complexities with replacing the sprocket, though. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 05:09 am: |
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Matt, can you elaborate on the service life of the individual parts? Wasn't there also a specified bearing or spring life that turned it into a service item?
There is no hard and faast rule for service life, so we receommned just cleaning and inspecting at service intervals. If something seems worn or loose then inspect and if necessary replace (we cna get spare parts).
We do say that the spring really should be replaced at around 5-6000 miles and we keep these in stock at GBP5 each.
This runs in probably the dirtiest areas on the bike so keeping it clean and lubricated is the best advice we can give  |
Rbuck53
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 10:16 am: |
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About every 1k miles or so I wipe my tensioner off thoroughly with a clean rag then apply "dry" Teflon lubricant to all moving parts, including the pivot. This is a penetrating lubricant and does indeed dry after application and does not act as a dirt magnet like oil or grease. I purchase the lube at my local bike shop. It is a Dupont product marketed as dry chain lube. |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 10:57 am: |
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"This runs in probably the dirtiest areas on the bike so keeping it clean and lubricated is the best advice". I would say that this is true as you only have to check the idle wheel to see how much dirt gets into that area.
At the end of the day if you do not look after your bike then that is not the fault of the product. |
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