| Author | Message | ||
     Prof_stack |
I used to tell my family that I didn't want to die in a hospital bed wasting away. I "joked" that I would prefer to go head-on into a Peterbilt truck. Quick and painless. BUT, after seeing these photos, I realize how selfish and stupid an idea that was. My family and friends would have a real mess in grieving not to mention the crew cleaning up my remains. So, thanks for posting the photos. | ||
| Blake |
It seems that some of the photos have been reversed. The top one is correct as the "E" on the man's T-shirt shows. The rest seem to be reversed. It does appear that the impact tool place in the left-hand lane. We shouldn't judge the cause of the accident or if it was avoidable. For all we know he was punted from behind by another vehicle sending him into the oncoming lane. Or maybe he had a blow out. Or an out of control tank slapper. Or oil blowing on the rear tire... | ||
| M1combat |
I have plans to place a sticker that says "The Pace" on my side of my windscreen. I won't place these pics there, but from now on the term "The Pace" will remind me of these and continue to remind me of the man that died last year at the torque fest. That happened just before I took delivery of my 12. I almost canceled the order... | ||
| Racerboy |
Charlotte, I am very sorry you had to witness something like this in person...You have all of our sympathy... Ferris, good job with the re-titel... Hey, gals and guys, did any of the rest of you have to sit through a very disturbing film in high school while in drivers ed...We did...There must be some value in this kind of exposure...Only sick if one goes looking for it... See Ya! Bob | ||
| Court |
>>>i have altered the thread title again Thank you. | ||
| Whatever |
Racerboy, Fortunately I was not riding with Victor that day... (I was on the back of his Harley with him a few days before)... but he did have a huge chunk of his brain removed after a young gal blindsided him... worst part was he suffered for ten weeks in a very very very de-humanizing coma... it was really quite painful for me to see and I almost quit riding... Funny thing is if we ride long enough we all end up having someone close to us we have lost this way, so I don't really understand the point intended in posting grizzly pictures of complete strangers on a public board myself... seems sort of ignorant if you ask me. Char  | ||
| Xb9er |
Is it commonplace in some countries for Police, Fire, and EMT to leave accident victims uncovered, as in these pics? Then to allow traffic to continue on by? Not saying it's right or wrong, just curious if it is common practice and why? | ||
| Ferris |
...so I don't really understand the point intended in posting grizzly pictures of complete strangers on a public board myself... me either Charlotte, not at all. i just went back and read all the posts up to this point, and again the majority of folks who have responded have said that these pix have been a positive thing for them, or at least have been fairly "neutral" in their response (i.e. they haven't come right out and said that this stuff shouldn't be here). i've asked several times now why these pix were posted in the first place, and all i got in response was that i was warned. well, i wasn't warned very effin' good, IMO, as the word "nasty" doesn't conjure up images for me of what's posted above. if the intent was to educate us, why were there no specific details of the accident posted, or a link to the accident report, so that we could know the details of the crash and learn from these details. instead, all we got were a multitude of extremely graphic images from about every conceivable angle with a fairly ambiguous opening comment about a truck, motorcycle, and "chicken match". i hope these pix weren't meant to be some sort of perverse "entertainment", because if i ever get that impression in the slightest this thread will disappear in an instant. FB | ||
| M1combat |
No entertainment on my part... I load the page with the scroll bar under the mouse cursor and as soon as I can scroll down. Too bad I have a photographic memory... Xb9er - I hear in Japan that at the entrance to many towns they take the worst wreck they have had so far (most fatalities) and hang the vehicle from a "billboard". If they can't get the bodies out, the bodies stay. They also list the number of accidents, injuries and fatalities on that billboard. I heard this from a US soldier that was stationed there during Viet-Nam. | ||
| Cj_xb |
When I saw the subject line it had the word nasty in it, and I've learned on this board it's something I KNOW I don't want to see !! So I waited long enough for the posts to add up to the point I could read them without worry of the pics popping up !! I've seen a few graphic pictures in some threads where I NEVER expected them, so I did appreciate the heading although from what you guys have posted it wasn't enough warning, but enough for me !! I think though I may be overly sensitive sometimes, as like you said Ferris most of the posts indicate it wasn't so bad !! But I had to put my 2 cents worth in and say I don't see the need for it on a public board like this either !! We all know what can happen, and if I wanted to see graphic reminders I wouldn't look for them here !! And while I didn't see them, if it's as you say a lot of the same pics from every angle imaginable, what is the point ????? Why wouldn't one or two suffice, and what purpose does it serve once you get the idea of what happened ??? And was the accident bad enough, like I've seen a few posts saying protective gear wouldn't have helped ??? If that's the case then I for sure have to wonder what the purpose was ?? To make us reconsider riding because we could die in a crash, although we could just as easily in a car ?? Just wondering ?? But I've gotten into enough debates over graphic pictures on this site, so I will do my best to avoid them or comment on them, but oops I failed again !!!!  Oh well !! CJ edited by cj xb on March 02, 2004 | ||
| Cowboy |
Att. Bikers.......This looks like a good place to jump in again. I see in todays paper that Mr. janklow (you remember him) has apealed his senence It seams the bastard thinks a 100 day senence is to much. Let watch what some judges have to say on that. | ||
| Pdxs3t |
Pictures like the ones posted above does nothing to help make me a better rider. I find them offensive and disturbing and by no means a way of educating riders. I know the risks of riding and understand the consequence if something horribly goes wrong that is out of my control. I don’t think there is a need to show such graphic carnage like what was posted above. The best way to avoid a possible situation like the one above is to take one of the many riding courses that are offered to us riders and to ride responsibly. JC | ||
| Mikej |
Funny thing about appeals, sometimes they lead to longer and stiffer sentences, rarely, but sometimes. And just perhaps his arrogance will place him into the general population this time 'cause we all know that there are a fair number of bikers spending time in the general pop's. (No comment on the rest of this thread.) | ||
| Whatever |
In my opinion... there are two kinds of people in the world, destructive and creative... it is very rare for one to change from the former to the latter... I don't associate with destructive people anymore as far as I can help it... The only reason I became a better rider after Vic died is because I CHOSE TO, it was a conscious decision on my part... it was not motivated by fear... there are also plenty of his friends who still ride without helmets, over the speed limit at very close distances to each other... that is their choice. I just don't ride with them anymore, ever. Also, CJ, I am glad you didn't see those pictures. That was one of the first things I thought when I saw them... that I really hoped you hadn't made the same mistake I did. Charlotte  | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Whether its in a car, bike, walking down the street. We all can and will die someday its just a matter of time. But the decisions we make can help extend that time. I knew a guy a few years ago that slipped on ice going into his basement, struck his head when he fell and was dead on the spot. I knew of another guy (Glen from Texas knows this one) who was on his way home one winter evening and died when his car left the road less than 1 mile from his house. So it really don't matter, once your time is up, your going. You can't live in fear waiting for that time. Those pictures are pretty graphic!!!!!! Maybe they should be removed. Anyone else agree!! | ||
| Bigdaddy |
I can think of no reasonable explanation to put such images on this site. No need to attack me either -- just IMHO Greg | ||
| Ferris |
Newf, we've got enough posts now that the pix have archived, so anyone wishing to see them HAS to want to go there, as the pix don't come up automatically on this page now when the thread is opened. that, in combination with the majority of the opinions expressed so far as being "pro", probably dictates that the pix remain where they are. good question, tho, and as polarizing as this subject matter is, i, like you, am interested in ongoing feedback. also, i ask again: why were these pix posted? FB | ||
| M1combat |
I don't think they should be removed at this point as they are in the archive and you'll only see them if you go looking. I'll say this though, I was headed home last night from my friends house and took a left onto another road. My intention when I took the corner was to got on it and have a little fun... I remembered these pics and didn't. That's not to say I'll never have any fun on a bike again, but that wasn't a good spot to do it. See, I wouldn't mind too much ending up like those guys in the pic (except for the friends/family thing that have to deal with it). It looked like there wasn't much suffering. What I don't want is to end up in a bed/chair/not on my bike for the rest of my life. | ||
| Ferris |
Greg, if the intent was legitimately to educate, then mayyyyyyyyyybe the pix were a good thing. i emphasize the word "maybe" because i am not at all convinced, but i AM trying to keep an open mind. as i've said a coupla times so far, more of the responses have been "for" than have been "against", altho it's getting closer. if, on the other hand, the pix were meant as "entertainment", well, that's an entirely different matter, and i would remove the pix in a heartbeat if that proved to be the case. FB | ||
| Cj_xb |
Also, CJ, I am glad you didn't see those pictures. Thanks Char, sorry you had to see them !! As far as any graphic pics being educational, I don't see it that way, like Pdxs said you wanna be educated the best way is to take one of the many riding courses that are offered to us riders and to ride responsibly. I never saw the pics and I learned the same thing anyone else learned viewing them !! You can be killed, maimed, and dismembered, even with protective gear on (or not), if you are involved in a really bad accident especially one involving a big truck !! Now tell me how seeing the pics educated anyone more than me and what more you got out of it than I did because I didn't view them !! And I'll NEVER believe the best way to educate anyone in any subject matter is by using nasty, graphic pics to show them what can happen or does !! Most people aren't stupid !!! CJ | ||
| Mikej |
I believe the logic goes something like: Some people need a baseball bat upside the head to learn, others just need a light tap on the shoulder. Most people are in the light tap category. Janklow is at the other end of the spectrum. | ||
| Bigdaddy |
CJ, Excellent point(s) and I believe you're spot on! Viewing violent events, pre, post, or concurrent, only leads to nightmares and lingering fear. IMHLO YMMV Greg | ||
| Blake |
There must be something to say for the effect of such grizzly pictures of vehicular fatalities. The images I was shown in my High School driver's education class were no less graphic than those posted at the start of this thread. I think such images can be a very sobering reminder of the risks associated with our beloved form of recreation. Who knows, maybe the images will convince a fellow BadWeBer to ride with less abandon. Might actually save a life. That said, in such cases where we might wish to post disturbingly graphic images, the title of the thread should be VERY clear as to the content within. Personally, I'm pretty numb to such images. My belief that the spirit lives on has a lot to do with that. It is an interesting comment about the bodies not being covered. Possibly the photos were taken upon immediate arrival at the scene. Or possibly the photos are for Police documentation/evidence and somehow made their way to the public domain. Neither would surprise me. | ||
| Socoken |
It is somewhat surprising to me to see all the posts with such strong opinions about how terrible they are, and how there is nothing to gain. i too, am one of those people who are somewhat numb to that sort of thing, mostly because of what i have done and seen. truth is, it does happen, and knowing and seeing it can should make you think more when riding or driving, if even for short term. Let me propose this question, suppose you arrive on a scene like that, and the other vehicle was a car, and they are wounded and in need of immediate attention and help. Can you really provide that if you are too awe stricken or in shock of the scene? Maybe its just me, but i take it upon myself to learn to get over that in order to best accomplish any tasks that a situation like that might present to me. I guess there will always be people that are offended by, or even insulted by such images, but rest assured, they serve a purpose, if not to you, then to others. Remember, no one FORCED you to look at them, and if you are so against them, and thinking about them, then why continue to post on this thread and continue to dwell on them? | ||
| Xbduck |
O.K., I'll take a try at how they are educational. If you had just seen the picture of the truck and maybe one of the larger view pictures you could say that there was certainly an issue around speed. I say that because I have welded on a few bumpers for big trucks and for that damage to have occured the bike was moving more like a missle. Were they speeding? None of us thus far can answer that, we don't have enough information. In some places in this world there are no posted speed limits. You are only limited by your personal judgement. It does seem however that the original poster was going for a shock value because I haven't seen a reply to the question Ferris asked "why were these pix posted?". They do make you think about it and that is a good thing. I don't understand the need for the closer more graphic pictures though. | ||
| Ferris |
Ken, "we" continue to post because we have strong reactions, emotions, and opinions, whether "in favor" of such images or "against", and the fact that we're having an intelligent, thoughtful, and adult conversation here is a GOOD thing, irrespectful of one's stance on the subject matter. did you see the original title of this thread? it did a LOUSY job of preparing for what was ahead, and it's my opinion that that's a courtesy that should be provided considering the images. a lot of folks have stated they are "numb" to this stuff, for various reasons, and i'm ok with that. if i were "in the business", i.e. cop, firefighter, paramedic, etc., i'm sure i would be numb, too. what i DON'T understand is how anyone could think that even tho THEY may be numb to images such as this, that there aren't people who are equally NOT numb to this. i fall into the latter category. we're not talking about somebody lying on the ground with a broken leg or a mild case of road rash, we're talking about charred human corpses exploded into multiple pieces, in living color, viewed from every conceivable vantage point, and i am STILL not convinced that these pix were posted with the best intentions. Blackbelt, if i'm wrong about that last statement i'll be the very first to apologize, but as of yet my question continues to go unanswered. Ken, the overall tone of your last sentence baffles me. | ||
| Dino |
While I can't say I'm numb to such photos, neither do I find them particularly offensive. (I should also note that the warning had been added to the thread title before I opened it, so I wasn't caught off-guard.) I do, however, believe that what educational value they have could have been satisfactorily delivered without posting all of the photos. I would never go looking for images like that, but being reminded on occasion of the dangers of our sport in a manner that cannot be easily swept aside is probably worthwhile. Sure, we all understand the dangers on an intellectual level...so none of us has ever done anything foolish or unnecessarily dangerous while riding, right? Yeah, right. The photos would certainly have had more educational value if details of the accident had been available. The thread title should certainly have been explicit from the start. Ferris - While I share your concern (to put it mildly) that anyone could actually enjoy viewing such images, I'm not certain that the intent of the original poster is the correct criteria for making a decision relative to keeping or scrapping the images. Rather, the decision should be based on the effect, or lack thereof, of the images on our collective concern with our safety and that of our passengers and our riding buddies. | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Adam, Please answer Ferris's Question????? I did too have a real good look at the pictures and sickly enough kept looking not at the bodies but the parts the bike was in and the damage it caused to the truck. That was one hell of an impact to cause that damage. I know I will take shit for this comment but its a known fact that over the years and even now driving I always see the 'single under 25 male operator' taking the chance, driving more aggressively, involved in more accidents, than any other demographic out there. I do not have the actual numbers to back it up but think about it, next time you in your car going where ever and a car buzzes by, or you see one driving erratic take a good look and 80% of the time it will be that person driving. I'd be curious to know how old the operator of that bike was. I can also think of two incidents that occurred over 10 years ago where excessive speed was involved. Both occasions were bike riders around 19-20 years old and on both occasions were killed by a vehicle leaving a driveway. Had the kids been travelling at the posted 30mph speed limit they would have had the time to react to the vehicle or the vehicle operator would have seen the bikes and not proceeded. In both separate incidents witnesses told police the bikes were estimated to be travelling in excess of 90mph. I have seen many accidents over the years (being an ex accident investigator/adjuster) and am pretty numb to the shots. Only last season on a ride back across the island myself and a fellow biker came across a car that had struck a moose. Had we never made a rest stop we would have been at that point in time where the car hit it. I guess lucky for us, not so for the passenger. If you are familiar with moose-vehicle accidents they are pretty bad. First of all those suckers tower well over the hood of a car, second when a car hits one you break its legs sending it into the windshield, add to that the average moose here weighs 1000lbs and its not a pretty sight. The passenger in the vehicle was seriously injured and stuck in the car. By the time we got there the ambulance had not arrived and we actually used my bike for light while a nurse was tending to the injuries. Unfortunately the person never made it and I believe died on the way to the hospital. Fact of the matter is that no one shot any pictures. After seeing that accident and viewing the pictures here it will not stop me from driving at night or riding my bike. If you were to stop doing things because there were risks involved you'd have a very boring life style. | ||
| Cj_xb |
There must be something to say for the effect of such grizzly pictures of vehicular fatalities. The images I was shown in my High School driver's education class We're not children anymore, and personally I never agreed with that either !! But then again you are a hard person !! There were lots of things back in those days they believed in doing, and they don't practice them today as we've hopefully learned better !! CJ | ||
| Ferris |
The photos would certainly have had more educational value if details of the accident had been available. agreed. The thread title should certainly have been explicit from the start. also agree, but in fairness to Blackbelt perhaps he felt the original title WAS enough warning (to which i would disagree). Ferris - While I share your concern (to put it mildly) that anyone could actually enjoy viewing such images, I'm not certain that the intent of the original poster is the correct criteria for making a decision relative to keeping or scrapping the images. Rather, the decision should be based on the effect, or lack thereof, of the images on our collective concern with our safety and that of our passengers and our riding buddies. you make a good point, Dino. i guess to your second comment i would say that that's exactly what has transpired here so far. the majority of posters have voiced varying degrees of "approval" of these pix, for the educational impact, and as such the thread still exists, and is sparking some spirited and thoughtful discussion, which is always a great thing. re: your first sentence, your point is well-taken, but i'm not yet convinced that i wouldn't immediately vaporize this deal if i found out the whole idea was "entertainment" or "shock value." i'm assuming Blackbelt's silence is because he is away from his computer, and i'll take the high road here and also assume the pix were posted with good intentions. subject to ongoing review. FB |
