| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
For full copy of the rules (interesting bed time reading for insomniacs) go to http://www.worldsbk.com/images/stories/documents/2 014_Rules_for_Superbike_EVO_2608013.pdf EVO can be summarised as having Superbike chassis rules (which allows extensive modification) and Superstock engine rules (which does not allow much modification). All EVo bikes will have to run 'kit' electronics available to buy from manufacturers, but the rules do not yet specify a spec ECU. The rules will be more like AMA or BSB EVO rules than the old WSB rules, but will still differ in allowing a lot more chassis development than the current AMA rulings I believe. EVO bikes for 2014 will be allowed LESS engines than full factory superbikes (6 engines instead of 8 I think) which is a bit different to the MotoGP model. Though engine modifications are as limited as they are in Superstock, the exhaust systems can be full Superbike systems, rather than the more restricted Superstock homologated systems. Clutches are similarly unregulated, with the same ability to replace the stock unit with modified or specialist racing clutches. Gearbox rules are in the middle of the new WSBK and existing Superstock rules. A team running an EVO bike are free to select their own gear ratios, but they are only allowed a single set of ratios, which they must use all year. Primary drive ratios must remain as standard. The advantage is that EVO bikes are not stuck with the standard gear ratios, but once they have selected a set of gear ratios, they are stuck with them, and can only modify gearing by changing the final drive sprockets and chains. The electronics remain as they are in Superstock, limited to either the standard ECU with modified software, or a manufacturer-approved kit ECU with a price cap. The price cap is slightly more generous than the Superstock rules. Data logging is also less restricted than Superstock, with 10 channels allowed rather than 7, but not as free as in WSBK, where there are no restrictions on how many channels can be logged. As with so many other items, the data logging system is price capped, in this case to 1000 euros. clear as mud..... | ||
| Court |
>>>clear as mud..... It's a damn good start and you'll save me some time. Thanks for your help, Court | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
The only other way to get MotoGP is to subscribe to their own online channel at motogp.com (although this is more expensive than BT) The issue is Kingston Communications supply my area Matt. I have to have their phone line and their broadband, and KC don't have BT Sport in their portfolio anyway. Thus only Sky is available to me for BT Sport, which means having to subscribe to one of the more expensive of their viewing bundles to gain access. I'm liking the sound of Moto GP channel though. Will check it out thanks. It might be the least expensive option available to me given the more usual alternatives for my area. But then I still don't get to see EBR in WSBK  Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
Seems I was wrong in assuming WSB teams would test at Jerez in pre season testing this week (don't know where that came from initially!) and won't go to Jerez until the first week of February, with only Kawasaki (KRT) and Pata Honda so far being the only leading teams officially listed as attending that particular test.. Most teams are testing at Almeria and Portimao later in the week, so EBR may get to share track time with some of the leading teams in the series after all, although they are not listed as being present at any of the published tests sadly. Here is the list of teams and riders testing at Portimao, Almeria and Jerez: AIA, Portimao (Portugal) January 2014 16-18th Pata Honda: Rea, Haslam; vd Mark, Zanetti Ten Kate Racing Products: Praia (STK tester) 17-20th Ducati: Giugliano, Davies 18-20th Aprilia: Melandri, Hofmann (tester) 19-20th Voltcom Suzuki: Laverty, A. Lowes MV Agusta YMS: Corti; Cluzel, Leonov Mahi Kawasaki: Foret (TBC); Sofuoglu PTR Honda: Kennedy, Perez; Wilairot DMC Lorenzini: Coughlan, Ivanov Circuito de Almeria (Spain) January 2014 16-17th Kawasaki Racing Team: Sykes, Baz; D. Salom (EVO tester) Voltcom Suzuki: Laverty, A. Lowes Team Puccetti: Tamburini (until Jan, 21st) Circuito de Jerez (Spain) February 2014 5-6th Kawasaki Racing Team: Sykes, Baz; D. Salom (EVO tester) Pata Honda: Rea, Haslam; vd Mark, Zanetti Team Pedercini: Andreozzi (EVO), Aitchison (EVO tester TBC); Savadori, Lanousse, Nemeth (STK) | ||
| Court |
World Superbike Testing Resumes January 16 In Spain | ||
| Xb1125r |
so here is my prediction for 2014 Tom Sykes will win the championship again. | ||
| Trojan |
Tom Sykes will win the championship again. Go on, go out on a limb with a crazy prediction  To be honest, Sykes will have to do something pretty silly to lose it this year I think. Other than Melandri and Guintoli I can't see anyone else challenging for the title. Chaz Davies will probably need time to get the Ducati the way he wants it (and the team still need to get the bike fully competitive), Alex Lowes and Eugene Laverty will probably ride the GSXR harder than ever but won't be able to overcome its age, and Rea and Haslam are both still struggling to get the Honda electonics to work properly. Everyone else is pretty much an also ran expect for brief individual flashes of brilliance maybe. Over the course of a whole season it is hard to see Tom losing. | ||
| Simond |
It'll be interesting to see how the new engine rules affect the competitiveness of the Aprilia. I doubt anyone is offering decent odds on Tom Sykes though. I can imagine there being quite a battle between the similarly competitive/(uncompetitive!) Hondas and Suzukis. They're being ridden by four pretty combative guys who know each other well and all have a point to prove. Alex Lowes winning the BSB title on a Honda against Shakey's Kawasaki was an indication of what a difference he can make...........if he learns the tracks quickly who knows? I see a Rea/Lowes ding dong at Assen. | ||
| Trojan |
It'll be interesting to see how the new engine rules affect the competitiveness of the Aprilia. My thoughts exactly, and even more so for next year. When Biaggi was there there were stories of Aprilia going through 30+ engines in a season, so they must have worked hard on engine life for this season! I think you need to look at who is competitive in Superstock racing to see who will be good under next years EVO rules, and kawasaki seem to be pretty good everywhere. hard to see anyone beating them if it all goes to plan. I think Lowes is definitely the dark horse and could spring a few surprises on the Suzuki, although not enough to affect the final result. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Geoff May just posted this on Facebook:
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| Riohondohank |
EBR ready for FIM inspectors. http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/dorna-wsbk-iss ues-statement-on-possible-bimota-homologation-ebr- says-they-are-ready-to-go/ | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I'm delighted EBR will do the testing both in Spain and Australia venues.. It shows so much commitment and effort. Forgive me for bringing it up. It shows the naysayers EBR mean business. Without a testing commitment I fear some this side of the ocean would think it half cocked. Not now though. I suspect some who wouldn't have, will now sit up and watch. Rocket in England | ||
| Simond |
I couldn't agree more. While it is a shame that Brands Hatch is no longer on the calendar I'm sure I'll be at Donington and/or the UKBeg event at the Lincolnshire Aviation Heritage Centre (at which EBR will be present) the following Monday. | ||
| Trojan |
I'm not surprised that the FIM/Dorna will move the homologation goalposts for Bimota. After all they have done it before. However they don't seem to learn from this mistake, as each time it fails. Bimotas, Benelli and Petronas have all been given special dispensation over the years to race with less than the stipulated homologated machines inplace, and every single one of them has failed to produce productions bikes or stayed in teh series long enough to justify the rule bending that went on. if you have a homologation rule then they should stick to it to the letter. If Bimota can't build enough bikes then they should stay in Moto2 or another prototype class. Great news that EBR will be testing at east twice before the first round. It certainly isn't being a naysayer to be worried that a new team will turn up to a world class event with an untested team, regardless of manufacturer name or persoanl loyalties. EBR face a stiff challenge ahead of them this year and they need every minute of testing and experience they can possibly get before the season starts in order to show the world what they are capable of. I for one do not want to see them (or any new team) fail for lack of preparation when the potential is so huge. | ||
| Court |
Exciting | ||
| Bigblock |
Fun times ahead! | ||
| Classax |
I for one, would love for Bimota to participate, but I don't like the idea of anything less than 1000 bikes per year for sale to the public as a homologation model. Duck's Supperlaggra is a perfect example of why less than 1000 is bad for the market and sport. With the new EVO rules coming into play, the competition and value for the fans both on and off track is exciting! (Message edited by Classax on January 19, 2014) | ||
| 46champ |
I have to agree with something like the 1000 bike rule. If you make the # too small we have bikes being raced that no one will ever be able to buy. 500 may be too little. Matt the rules say 125 by Feb 1 or there abouts and 500 by about July 1. 1000 by Dec 1. What happens if the 125 get built the 500 are on time but the 1000 are not. The racing season is over by a couple of months. Do they void your efforts or not let you race the next year. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
There exists rules which allow for small volume manufacturers like Bimota, otherwise they'd never be able to compete and that would be a loss to the sport and the motorcycling public at large. Companies like Bimota need to be in racing as it gives them authenticity to their product if they're producing 'racing specials'. To have them in WSBK is good for the series. What will be interesting is if a company like Bimota can beat their obvious rivals like MV and EBR. After all, what good is the racing if you've no one to beat. I suspect EBR will relish the chance to be racing against the likes of Bimota. Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
There exists rules which allow for small volume manufacturers like Bimota, otherwise they'd never be able to compete and that would be a loss to the sport and the motorcycling public at large. There 'used' to be rules for smaller companies, but then the smaller companies took p*ss and didn't even build the reduced number of bikes required to compete. The big manufacturers complained and the rules were evened up a few years ago. As it stands now the rules are the ame for everyone and you have to build 1000 bikes by the end of the first season of racing, with inspection intervals as mentioned by 46 champ earlier. This may stop small manufacturers racing in WSb but that is very point and essence of WSB in the first place - to race production based bikes that you can actually buy and ride on the road. WSB got egg on their faces in the past by allowing bikes to race that were in fact never built or sold to the public at all, let alone in sufficient numbers (Foggy Petronas anyone?), and we all know the H-D VR1000 fiasco that allowed them to race in AMA by selling bikes in Poland allegedly. While I want to see Bimota racing I do not want a loop hole big enough that Honda and Ducati can drive a fully laden race transporter through it, which will allow them to race thinly disguised MotoGP bikes built in stupidly small numbers just to win WSB (again). Bimota is already in Moto2 racing, and that is a great showcase for a company that only build chassis and uses other peoples engines. if they can't build the required number of bikes for WSb then they shoudl stay away and stick to Moto 2 in my view, much as I want to see Christian Iddon race in WSB as he deserves. | ||
| Trojan |
First time that we have seen multiple teams testing together this pre -season, and Suzuki have helpfully provided some times (all unofficial). It may be no coincidence that their man is at the top of the timesheet then  I'm sure Eugene will be privately ecstatic to be ahead of Melandri (who stole his factory Aprilia ride despite Laverty beating him in the series last year)even if it is only testing and we don't know the spec of the bikes/tyres etc. MV seem a mile off at the moment, although they are at their first test of course. To put these times into context, Tom Sykes did a 1'41" last year at the same track, although conditions were better. 1. Eugene Laverty (Voltcom Suzuki) 1'43.4 2. Marco Melandri (Factory Aprilia) 1'43.6 3. Davide Giugliano (Factory Ducati) 1'43.7 4. Alex Lowes (Voltcom Suzuki) 1'43.7 5. Chaz Davies (Factory Ducati) 1'43.8 6. Jonathan Rea (Pata Honda) 1'43.9 7. Leon Haslam (Pata Honda) 1'44.4 8. Sylvain Barrier (BMW Evo) 1'45.1 9. Jeremy Guarnoni (Kawasaki Evo) 1'45.6 10. Alex Hoffmann (Aprilia, tester) 1'45.7 11. Claudio Corti (MV Agusta) 1'46.0 | ||
| Classax |
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/kawasaki-rider s-complete-first-2014-pre-season-test-at-almeria/ Unless I'm reading the team Kawi numbers with a severe case of dyslexia, 1'34.0(Sykes) and 1'34.5, the whole field is way off. A 1'43.0 seems more like real race pace to me, but you never know with team green. Anyone got predictions on where the EBR's will run? I'll go out on a limb and say May does a 1'44.0 and Yates a 1'45.1 (No clue why, just a swag) Anyone else? | ||
| Trojan |
Unless I'm reading the team Kawi numbers with a severe case of dyslexia, 1'34.0(Sykes) and 1'34.5, The Kawasaki times were from Almeria and the others are from Portimao, so different tracks. if there really was a 9 second difference I think the other teams would just go home and save some money! The kawasakis have run at Portimao last year and the best time by Sykes was 1'41" (in better conditions). Tom is already faster this year at every test so I think he would be in at least the 1'42" area under current conditions at Portimao....in other words still significantly quicker than the rest of the field so far. It is a complete guess as to how EBR will fare at portimao as nobody has run the bike there and neither rider has seen the place before now either. Alex Lowes (Suzuki) has never run at Portimao before this test and was only 0.3 seconds behind Laverty, so it can be done by a rookie | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
While I want to see Bimota racing I do not want a loop hole big enough that Honda and Ducati can drive a fully laden race transporter through it, which will allow them to race thinly disguised MotoGP bikes built in stupidly small numbers just to win WSB (again). I think the rules should allow small volume, like Foggy Petronas, but enforce the rules properly is all. Bimota should absolutely be in WSBK as one of these low volume producers as they are in the production street bike business. Not sure which Ducati's you're suggesting were Moto GP bikes in disguise Matt. As far as I ever looked when the 916 bikes were winning there were production streetbikes available in their basic 'special' form. Can you elaborate on the Ducatis you're referring to Matt? Rocket in England | ||
| Classax |
The Ducati superlaggra is a perfect example. Its a special edition offered for sale to 100 select customers only. As much as I welcome the idea of Bimota, we've been down this path with that other Italian B bike builder. The series is better off with every one being held at the same standard. | ||
| Trojan |
Not sure which Ducati's you're suggesting were Moto GP bikes in disguise Matt. Ducati have for years played the Superbike rules like an accordian to suit themselves. They have released loads of 'special edition' or 'RS' models in order to qualify parts for WSB. If the rules were relaxed then they have the Desmosedicci that they could enter into WSB, which is nothing less than a MotoGP copy. However they have also developed he Superleggara as Classax says, which is way beyond the WSB ethos and rulebook. if they don't have to build a minimum quantity they WILL do everything they can up to and evebn beyond the rule ceiling. Honda already have plans for an RCV1000 street bike that will cost around GBP45000 (hardly what a normal person would call a 'production street bike') and they would undoubtedly enter than in WSB in a heartbeat if they were allowed to do so. Allowing small volume manufacturers into the series is one thing, but they must still build 'affordable' street bikes from which the race bikes are based. Otherwise it will be the equivalent of letting Ferrari race in British Touring Cars or Nascar? Relaxing the rules will also suit the bigger manufacturers much more, and you can bet a paound to a pinch of sh*t that they will take full advanatge of any weakness on the part of the rule makers. On a more positive note.......Alex Lowes set the fastest time of the Portimao test in a very impressive time indeed.. 1 22 Alex Lowes Voltcom Suzuki 1:42.5 2 50 Eugene Laverty Voltcom Suzuki 1:42.6 3 65 Jonathan Rea Pata Honda 1:42.9 4 34 Davide Giugliano Factory Ducati 1:42.9 5 33 Marco Melandri Factory Aprilia 1:43.1 6 7 Chaz Davies Factory Ducati 1:43.2 7 91 Leon Haslam Pata Honda 1:43.3 8 20 Sylvain Barrier BMW Evo 1:44.0 9 71 Claudio Corti MV Agusta 1:44.5 10 66 Alex Hofmann Aprilia, 1:45.0 11 11 Jeremy Guarnoni Kawasaki Evo 1:45.3 What coulde be alarming to some teams is that Alex Lowes set his fastest time on a hard race tyre at the end of a long run race simulation. His time would have beaten Jules Cluzel's superpole time from laast year on the same bike, so I think he could be the dark horse this year. (Message edited by trojan on January 21, 2014) | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
There is little point in arguing but it's unfair to criticise Ducati for playing the rules when their main rivals have done exactly the same but on a much greater scale. The four cylinder bikes have had rules changed to suit them for years in an effort to give them a chance against the all conquering Ducatis. Look at the fiasco over capacity limits when the V twin 998cc engine reached the peak of its development. The rules still favour the fours. I mean let's face it, 'they' wouldn't want a Ducati whitewash again would they. Can you blame Ducati for the Superleggara when after all it was Ducati that made the series what it is today. One of the top two in the world! Obviously Ducati see it as their series to lose. Not have taken away by the rule book before the racing starts. I'm very much for small volume manufacturers participating and taking the fight to the big four. Basing their right to enter on volume produced, such needs to reflect the size of individual companies on a sliding scale. And if it means some favourable rules to make it happen, I have no problem with that providing the rules are balanced to make the competition fair for ALL manufacturers. The rules target should be to get streetbike manufacturers on the grid. Not exempt them. Rocket in England | ||
| Classax |
I'm very much for small volume manufacturers participating and taking the fight to the big four. Basing their right to enter on volume produced, such needs to reflect the size of individual companies on a sliding scale. And if it means some favourable rules to make it happen, I have no problem with that providing the rules are balanced to make the competition fair for ALL manufacturers. The rules target should be to get streetbike manufacturers on the grid. Not exempt them. Fair enough. I think everyone is in agreement about wanting to see the smaller MFG's on the grid. Its the how to get them there that's the problem. A sliding scale would be tough to do because Honda for example, as a percentage of total revenue sells a minute number of Fireblades compared to say EBR at 100% RX's at the moment. How do you set up the slide to prevent Honda from building just enough CBR/RC/RR's to sell to perspective race teams which are considered part of the "public". Ducati's Superlaggra is basically a race team only machine. At least the 100 EBR RS can be bought by anyone who had the cash to plop down, for Duc you have to be on the invite list. I think the 1k per year mark is consistent with a legitimate superbike MFG, but I'd settle for a middle weight too so how about a 750 a year compromise? | ||
| Trojan |
It is simpe really. keep the rules exactly as they are and have NO exceptions. If a manufactruer cannot make the required number of bikes then they cannot race, simples On previous evidence, as soon as they make exceptions to the rules and start giving people dispensation it all goes to pot and you get complaints, cheating and all sorts of rubbish going on. Either Bimota (or any other small company)can make enough to qualify for WSB or they can't. if they can't then they need to go and race in another series that doesn't require any homologation or minimum numbers to be built. The four cylinder bikes have had rules changed to suit them for years in an effort to give them a chance against the all conquering Ducatis. You have to remember that Ducati had the rules pretty much written for them for many years too, back when 4 cylinder bikes were limited to 750cc. One set of rules to suit everyone is all that is needed. If you cannot meet the rules don't race, just like every other competiton in the world. Back in 2006 when I was running the UK Thunderbike championship I used to get calls every week from people asking if their bike, which did not meet the rules or criteria for Thunderbike, could be entered as a special case or if the rules could be changed. My answer was always the same "The rules are there for everyone to follow, so you need to race a bike that fits the rules of the competition you want to race in, not the other way around". | ||
| Gaesati |
Did Aprilia and BMW have the requisite number of bikes built when they entered the competition? |
