| Author | Message | ||
     Hughlysses |
I wonder if bikes have started rolling off the production line yet? Production was supposed to start in early December. That's actually a pretty exciting thought- there hasn't been a true production line in that East Troy building in close to 4 years now. (This was in a post of mine in the "something wicked" thread but I figured the topic was worthy of its own thread.) | ||
| Classax |
I hope they make a big deal out of it, because it IS. Imagine, the first Prescription could be headed to final QC right now... | ||
| Satori |
I'm guessing yes it has, my local dealer told me he expected bikes in by the end of the year. Including his demo...  | ||
| Ljm |
Either it is well under way or they plan to have no Christmas in East Troy. 40 dealers listed so far, I seem to recall they have to buy 3 to start, that's 120 of them to head out the door in the next week or two or three. And I am sure that the 3 each is going to be an underestimate. | ||
| Satori |
When I talked to my dealer, he was getting 4 Rx's and 2 RS's. and he was disappointed he could only get 6 on his first order. But there are a fair amount of well to do young microsofties around here though. | ||
| D_adams |
 | ||
| Classax |
Either it is well under way or they plan to have no Christmas in East Troy. 40 dealers listed so far, I seem to recall they have to buy 3 to start, that's 120 of them to head out the door in the next week or two or three. And I am sure that the 3 each is going to be an underestimate. If they are going to homologate and have bikes ready to race for WSBK(4) they need to ship closer to 150 by the end of the year. I'm sure there will be a few sent used as test mules, quality control, sent to magazines and VIPs to. Uhg the waiting is always the hardest part, but they're wrenching on superbike hearts in the USA! Awesome Go EBR! | ||
| Reepicheep |
+1! | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
Dealer closest to me told me today that it could be January or it could be june. Just have to wait and see. I was planning on trading in the BMW but they won't give me anything for it. $11,000 for a 2013 s1000rr. I might be waiting another year now. Maybe then dealers will be more interested in a reasonable trade in. Plus there might be a chance all the new intro kinks will be worked out by then. Pretty disappointed about that trade in offer. They aren't being very eager to deal. I might be better off trying to trade in the cr, but I hate to get rid of that. I'll contact some other dealers and see if its the same all over. | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
By the way. The dealers have already had the test bikes and returned them according to the guy I talked to today. | ||
| Rex |
The EBR Motors. Are the parts all coming in in pieces from Rotax? and then, they are assembled in East Troy? Or... do the lower ends come in complete, and they only build up the top ends in East Troy? Just curious. Or are the motors, rotax anymore? | ||
| Hughlysses |
The EBR Motors. Are the parts all coming in in pieces from Rotax? and then, they are assembled in East Troy? Or... do the lower ends come in complete, and they only build up the top ends in East Troy? Just curious. Or are the motors, rotax anymore? According to info previously posted here and elsewhere: The engines are ET V2's; "ET" stands for East Troy. There may be some Rotax parts in them, but they are not Rotax engines. Parts are sourced from the U.S. and elsewhere and the engines are completely assembled in-house at EBR. | ||
| Ducbsa |
I'm sure this has been posted here before, but enjoy anyway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQPKYnM3jfI | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
This is encouraging. http://www.teammcc.com/new_vehicle_inventory.asp?s id=0057522X12K12K2013J9I41I49JAMQ1932R0&category=0 &mfg=7632&ModelYearFrom=1900&ModelYearThru=2014&Pr iceFrom=0&PriceThru=999999999&ModelSearch=&submit= Search | ||
| Hughlysses |
This is encouraging. Absolutely. That certainly appears to be an 1190RX sitting in that dealer's showroom, available for sale to the public. | ||
| Satori |
The EBR Motors. Are the parts all coming in in pieces from Rotax? and then, they are assembled in East Troy? Or... do the lower ends come in complete, and they only build up the top ends in East Troy? Just curious. Or are the motors, rotax anymore? When I talked to my local dealer (we had almost a 3 hour conversation) He told me that Rotax is a SUPPLIER they are not building/assembling. To his knowledge they were supplying the case, and possibly the cylinders. The head is a EBR part, and he didn't think that they were casting it. The other interesting factoid is that the parts distribution to dealers etc is being handled by parts-unlimited.com The EBR by the way has a higher percentage of Made in the USA parts, than HD. | ||
| Finedaddy1 |
Four years ago I would have never though things would unfold the way it has. Turned out better than I predicted, I just knew he would be building bikes for another manufacture. I'm happy to see things turned out different. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Yikes, I hope the part about Parts Unlimited isn't true- you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than at PU (which is appropriate because they stink!). I learned years ago not to do business with them, and it would be just like PU to sucker EBR in and then turn around and require all EBR dealers to sign up as PU customers (with their $10,000 new dealer minimum stocking order). Just makes me sick to my stomach... | ||
| Firstbuell |
dunno about PU business dealings I do know that 10 yrs ago, I worked for an online metric cruiser/chopper store, checking daily incoming PU parts orders & then ordering new PU parts each afternoon. over 3 month period, EVERYTHING ordered was delivered - ZERO errors on PU's side I was, & remain, very impressed | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
PU abides by the "Mafioso Strong-arm" business model which is extremely punitive and un-friendly to dealers. For example, if PU ships a dealer the wrong part they will not issue an RGA Label- the dealer must pay return shipping even if it was PU's error. I experienced this policy first-hand several years ago when working at a Suzuki dealership... when talking with the PU CSR about the part they sent in error she hung up on me after saying "I have more important things to do than explain our policies to you, you can either pay to ship it back or keep it." (click) Next, PU strong-arms manufacturers into signing exclusive distribution contracts, which allows PU to set prices and forces dealers to sign up with PU as the only means of obtaining their brands- even removing the dealers' ability to purchase directly from the manufacturer. Ah, and the final insult... when I opened my shop almost three years ago I signed up with most all of the well-known distributors- Tucker Rocky, Western Power Sports, Sullivan's, Helmet House, Lockhart Phillips. etc. The average first stocking order minimum ranged from $600-$1,000. Every one of these companies has provided superior customer service, generous return/exchange policies, and pays return shipping on any items sent in error- it has been a pleasure dealing with all of them. PU has a $10,000 first stocking order minimum with a $7,500 once-a-year single order minimum every year after that. They also still institute the "keep it or pay to ship it back even if we screwed up" policy. There's just no excuse for PU's attitude or behavior, but they succeed by continuing their mafia tactics. I've got many more examples if you'd like me to continue- directly from the mouths of manufacturers who wished they hadn't signed their deal with the PU devil, as well as hope-inspiring stories from OEMs who have escaped the clutches of PU. Oh, and PU is only Beelzebub compared to the full-blown Satan that is Parts Canada- you'd be amazed at what Canadian dealers will do to avoid dealing with PC. Bottom line: I'm sad to hear EBR has entangled themselves with PU, and it distresses me to know that EBR dealers are going to be forced to do business with PU in order to carry the EBR brand. It just sucks- the last thing Erik needs is another badly-run, customer no-service conglomerate to be associated with. Pisses me off, actually. | ||
| Court |
You were doing fine . . . . expressing opinion . . . . until you got to "distresses me to know". Unless I'm missing something . . . I'm not sure any of us "knows" anything . . . we've taken bits and pieces, rumors and internet chat and spun them into a woven blanket of speculation. I know the folks pulling the levers . . . this is not their Freshman year in the motorcycle business. Just my opinion . . | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Correction: It would thrill me to no end to "know" EBR wasn't entangled with PU, and that EBR dealers wouldn't be forced to deal with PU. Thank you for the clarity, Court | ||
| Firstbuell |
well, considering that PU does a pretty good job of distribution..... mebbe it's good that EBR's using PU's nearby facilities, shipment & other demonstrated knowhow, rather than merely accepting PU's normal business practices PU's also big in yurrip, a key market for EBR as Court says, wadda we know? | ||
| Court |
I . . personally . . (and let me qualify this by saying it's no more than a guess) . . . can see, absent any instant knowledge of or dealings with PU. . . a case whereby EBR could benefit from an established distribution network and the support services concomitant with it. I doubt the customer, again merely a guess, would ever see the back room ops. . but it could save reinventing a wheel that would consume inordinate resources. Many have heard me say, over the past 21 years, that when you get a well developed, excellent motorcycle ready for market you are 3% of the way toward having a motorcycle company. Having a great motorcycle, even though it's tons of work, won't do it. You can pretty well bet that any firm not yet consumed and spat out by the marketplace, has the product. I'm among the religiously loyal Buell brigade but I'm not unaware that Ducati, BMW, KTM, and especially Triumph have offerings I'd write a check for without the blink of an eye Funny thing . . . I've bought 3 guitars in the last month and my primary reason for buying was the firm I deal with. They get me what I want, when I want it and how I want it. The day after one of them was delivered, I got a call from the fellow who owns the company (they're huge) making certain everything went well and that I was pleased. His call likely insured I'd continue fighting my constant affliction with GAS (guitar acquisition syndrome). EBR needs to have a Customer Service Component that is like nothing the industry has ever seen. I've sketched up and outlined what I'd do, based on prior Buell experience, and I'm hoping someone currently in the mix is doing the same thing. I dream of buying a bike that comes with an iPad Mini complete with all the paperwork, service and parts manuals that are always up today, a service reminder/log that is linked to my Smartpho-date . . order parts would be a matter of finding the picture of the part, tapping on it and selecting the "to dealer or to door" option . .(dealer gets his cut and does nothing which he;d love and the customer would love) . . I'd get pop up reminders on my laptop along with accessories compatibility suggestions. . . . the mapping function would always display, on the unit if not on the instrument display, the closest dealer along with 24/7 emergency contact information . . there'd be linked to YouTube videos for all service tasks typically done by owners and I'd look forward to the monthly "peek behind the curtain" where I could tune into a 5 minute "Live from the Factory Floor" session ONLY for folks with that iPad. Yeah . . I'd make any price difference between me and any perceived competition fodder for laughter. I'd win the technical battle but I'd trounce the competition based on how I delivered and stood behind the product. That PU connection could be a key component in such an arrangement. Again, I've no clue what they're up to . . . but I've got an 8' white board with a diagram that would change the entire ownership experience. The folks at EBR are seasoned veterans, augmented by some of the best young talent and some new seasoned veterans from within the industry from around the globe. I'm really . . . hahahaha, it may show . . . excited about what's about to happen. | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
Wow that is something. I hope you are telling us what's coming disguised as one of your dreams. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Where did the info come from about the alleged involvement of Parts Unlimited? Redbuelljunkie's post says he hopes that part is not true, but where did the info come from? I don't see it in this thread. | ||
| Satori |
Hughlysses, The PU info came from me. It was part of my 3 hour conversation with my local dealer. The owner Mike, was very transparent with me on information. He told me the PU connection when he mentioned that he wasn't required to carry any parts per his dealer agreement. nor he said was there any special tools he was required to buy. Now given that he's not required to carry any parts, I don't see how PU could require the dealer to place such a large order(I could be wrong) But the owner wasn't at all upset about the PU connection. I did question him about it and could not find any uneasy feelings about it. We even talked about the dealer agreement I joked with him about my employment agreement being about 3x longer than his agreement (mine is 15 pages of single space 7 point font). We even talked about the markup percentage. Which I will not talk about, its just not fair to the fine dealers who have come on board. They deserve to make some money and make EBR a success. I can tell you that he was extremely excited about EBR, and he planned on keeping one from his first order for himself, and will possibly find a good rider to race for him. As a side note, I hope Court's "dream" has a basis in fact, heck GM has been doing vehicle communication with maintenance needs etc for years with their onstar. I don't know why something like that couldn't be adapted to a cycle. | ||
| Ducbsa |
This engine arrangement is interesting. It is almost as if Rotax's original role was design finalization, initial component parts supply management, and 1125 assembly, with full information to BMC, that Erik was allowed to keep. The last piece wouldn't have been a major item for the HD lawyers to concede, since they don't want high HP motors (/sarc). Could Erik have anticipated this turn of events as a possibility and negotiated this issue in his contract with HD well before 2009? Court talks about Erik's vision, so maybe. Good for us fans and all sportbike riders! | ||
| Court |
Nothing I have conveyed here is fact. It is no more than my personal opinion. My opinion is based on riding Buells since about 1988, having ridden with and met Buell owners in 44 states, years of studying customer service and amassing quite a library and my current involvement/exposure to a high end car manufacturer. I also think I have a fairly keen sense of the Elf mindset and the trajectory things are on. Beyond that it's pure speculation as to what I might be pursuing if I were in there shoes. Frankly, in this day and age, if I buy a product and have a question or concern and can't talk to a knowledgeable person in less than 4 rings . . . the system is begging for improvement. Buell, over the yeas, was severely handicapped, in terms of customer service, by their association with Harley-Davidson. There were good elements but there were bad, including some folks within the HD ranks who simply had an axe to grind with Erik and actively sabotaged certain areas of Buell Customer Service. Erik hired me and I spent a couple years at the factory basically doing "stop gap" customer service, taking on the unusual and special cases. I got a bit of a reputation, good with many customers and as a maverick at HD, for doing things like delivering new bikes to customers or flying in with a load of parts and a factory R&D tech to straighten out a bike that dealer service personnel couldn't. Those days were fun. The days of trying to connect a laptop with a 5" monochrome monitor to a hotel room phone with a sponge acoustic coupler. But the little secret mission I got sent on at M.I.T. imbued me with a sense, even back in 1997, of what is possible. Many other companies, such as GM. Ford and Porsche, have done what Buell was on the cusp of doing years ago, before they had ever dreamed of it, and wasn't allowed to. We now have the technology and the knowledge of how to effectively manage the customer experience, make it a "reason to buy" and to make it a profitable and important part of the ownership experience. I don't want folks to "want" to buy and EBR product . . . I want them salivating to become part of something great. There are, I suspect, the proper people in place at EBR and. . . . again just guessing . . . I am betting they will reset the paradigm of the motorcycle ownership experience. Things have progressed a long way since Jennifer, Jonaie (now back as an EBR employee) and I sat in the back room using flipped over S2 fuel cell boxes as desks . . .and the folks at HD threatening me for my "on the road" S3 rolling saddlebag service program. I expect the team at EBR to do amazing things . . .it's time. Hell. . . .I may start tiding again. | ||
| Gemini |
Like | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I don't want folks to "want" to buy and EBR product . . . I want them salivating to become part of something great. Might work for the domestic market that is America, though elsewhere people already salivate for KTM's, Ducati, MV, BMW, and the more common place mass producers. I suspect in EBR's case, EBR need to build a quality product which delivers to its intended purpose reliably, and most essentially it must have WOW factor which can't be overlooked in the looks department. The Ducati and MV superbikes are it's fair to say, the Louis Vuitton's and the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance pastiches of the mass produced motorcycle world. This is the target, at least outside of the US, EBR are up against. Whilst an EBR might look good, or even great, they are not Ducati or MV great in style, so they will absolutely have to deliver on performance, reliability, and price, or they will always be considered somewhat inferior to the European style gurus! The after sales care. A techno fest of hook ups back to factory HQ. Technicians helicoptered or jetted in to problem solve. Or a cool leather document wallet resplendent with whatever catchy gimmick or trinket. Non of these are important to motorcycles until the motorcycle is important enough to warrant them. EBR bikes have to achieve what their image says of them, and in no small part too what their efforts to be in WSBK racing suggests of their bikes has to be a relative success. If not the image and the racing will tarnish the sales if either of these not so small commitments fail. I suspect EBR, or more likely Erik, knows this. I also suspect the get out clause, not that one be necessary, is based upon a completely different motorcycle, the purpose of which is to sell and sell well. This motorcycle will be more mainstream and less Buell racer pedigree me thinks. In other words, this time around Erik is going back to his roots and starting right at the top like just before. Building a race bike to compete in a premier race series right from the very start. Given that Erik has entered into WSBK, it wouldn't be too much of an embellishment to say he's already succeeded seeing as the RW750 didn't make it to the track so to speak. Rocket in England | ||
| Classax |
Court I think that the customer service piece of the purchase must far exceed that of similar price point competition. Ducati and Aprilia to be honest have loyal fan following that create a certain lifestyle, but they are both very difficult to work with when you have a problem. The big 4 are event worse at dealing with customers post sale unless you have a terrific dealer. So far EBR has returned every email I have sent them with questions with in 24 hours. I don't even own a bike (YET). I am sure they are getting tons of inquiries but their CSM's are answering them all. I don't get that kind of response from the other manufacturers I have spent more than $20 k USD with. If your musings Court are even partially adopted, that would make the EBR experience more than worth the price of admission. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Court, *you* were doing fine until you said "IPad Mini".  It should be an Android (something like a Nexus 7 or an HP Slate) preloaded with documentation, and that includes a bluetooth dongle already integrated into the bike that connects to a modified version of something like the "Torque" app from the android store. You put it in your jacket, turn on logging, and go ride for an hour. The log file automatically goes back to EBR tier three support when you get to any WiFi. The factory plays it back and analyzes it (using a good mix of onshore and offshore gearheads) and makes suggestions. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
No, Court was right on with the Apple products! Every company wants to build a quality product and have the same customer service reputation as Apple has! Apple's sales and loyalty to their product is exactly what EBR is looking for. | ||
| Reepicheep |
My experience with Apple customer support has been fairly poor, but this is the wrong thread for that. The Android would be cool because it already supports a $15 bluetooth canbus dongle where the Apple (because of a proprietary and crap bluetooth stack) won't. It is also far far cheaper but every bit as capable for a dedicated device for documentation and remote diagnostics. | ||
| Jdugger |
Gawd I hope they don't do anything like Apple does... every time I bolt on a part, I'll have to buy a whole new complement of overpriced adaptors! | ||
| Coolice |
Just like at the North Pole, the Elves in ET are VERY busy...... | ||
| Classax |
Well this gent would be quite grateful to have the Elves in East Troy, who seem quite a bit taller than the ones in the north Pole, coordinate with Santa to leave a Galactic Black RX in my stocking. That would prove it's a wonderful life indeed. | ||
| Johndb |
MCC is my local dealer, and I went in about a week ago after seeing the listing on their website. The RX was not on the showroom floor, and although I did not ask about it, I assume it was there for advertising/ photographic purposes only. Maybe someone scored a test ride. | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
Yeh I called them and it was a test bike provided to them to determine if they wanted to sell them. They put it on the floor, took lots of pics and put it on their website, presumably to see how much interest it would generate. They dont have one and are getting 6. Must be the magic number. | ||
| Classax |
http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_13012_erik_buel l_talks_about_world_superbike_plans/ Hmm let's talk about time lines. The first race is Feb 23 2014, homologation inspection is to take place 30 days prior to the first race or by January 31st. EBR must certify that it has shipped or has bills of ladings for 125 motorcycles by January 23rd or no later than the 31st. 41 Dealers at present at 6 machines each means they have a back log of 246 machines. Production began last week, and you figure they are closed the week of Christmas as well as a few days for New Years, and weekends, that means they've got 34 days to build enough bikes. That means assembling, testing and QC roughly 3-4 bikes a day. That's quite a few for machines that are effectively hand built. | ||
| 46champ |
Do you think they are going to take the whole week of Christmas off. I see them taking Christmas day off and New Years day off maybe. The employees know what is at stake here. | ||
| M2typhoon |
Interesting that they still have plans for AMA. | ||
| Classax |
46champ, "...the workers know what's at stake here." True but the last thing they want to do is rush their debut machine out the door with minor mistakes that can so easily happen when the Elves are tired, unhappy, distracted or just generally not completely focused. The 1125r was rushed out and go panned. Under no circumstances can EBR afford to repeat that mistake. No matter how much this paying customer begs them to ship by Christmas. | ||
| Jdugger |
> The 1125r was rushed out and go panned. My perception is the issues that "plagued" the 1125 were ones not really detected until the bike was left in the hands of commuters, in-town riders, and so on. I don't see the RX (or RS) being tested like that at all. Let's hope the lessons learned on the 1125 translated and the design matured to handle these conditions a little better. | ||
| Hootowl |
Some of the "issues" perceived with the 1125 were encountered by a group of motojournalists riding preproduction test bikes. The first moto rag articles were based on their experiences with those bikes. They influenced a lot of people. | ||
| Classax |
>My perception is the issues that "plagued" the 1125 were ones not really detected until the bike was left in the hands of commuters, in-town riders, and so on. I don't see the RX (or RS) being tested like that at all. Let's hope the lessons learned on the 1125 translated and the design matured to handle these conditions a little better. I deffer to Jdugger who races and owns the 1125r which I never did, but my perception is that many of issues that plagued the 1125r were fixed and not present in th 1125cr. I base this on the collective knowledge of the Badweatherbikers journals of their trials with the bikes. Either way we shall soon find out, as the count down has begun in earnest. | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
I've brought up the pre-production moto-journo track day myself, and I think it seriously hurt the 1125R's launch. This absolutely cannot be repeated, and is IMO the biggest reason for all the hush-hush regarding the bikes. They were released two months ago, and still no siginifigant media. Which I'm fine with. I mean I'm antsy to see it rail, but I get it. As far as the engine, I think Court told me in another thread, that EBR will start casting the engines themselves, in house, sometime this year. Court? Care to expound on that? | ||
| Jdugger |
It's hard to imagine casting motor parts themselves makes sense knowing what goes into a foundry. I would totally expect EBR to be assembling motors themselves, but I would personally be surprised to see them casting them. It's also kind of a lousy time to launch a bike, at least in North America. Where would you have the track day? Homestead? I guess one test EBR *could* do that would expose a lot of the ills from the 1125 era would be just to let the damn thing idle a couple of tanks of gas in the parking lot in Arizona or somewhere like that. I personally never had the fuel jerkeyness, or the 'noid, or the stator problems, but seems like that's all I ever heard about the first year or two. And, to my knowledge, the CR suffered every bit as bad as the R. They are basically the same bike other than plastic work, after all. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Seems like the early problem reports with the 2008 1125R's related to (1) poor fueling and (2) dead batteries. These were both corrected with ECM flash updates. Then the 2009's came along, with a larger alternator, and started frying stators. I always figured when the dead battery issues started turning up on the early 2008's, Buell must immediately launched a project to upgrade the alternator, which they later found out was unnecessary, by which time it was too late to stop. Later, problems showed up with leaking clutch slave cylinders. I don't know if HD ever released a permanent fix for this (I know they tried a couple of times), but EBR did fix it. At any rate, fueling hasn't been a problem with subsequent 1125 models or the 1190, the rotor issue has been sorted, and the slave cylinder issue has been sorted as well. The 1190RX is introducing new electronics, including the display and traction control, but hopefully they've been put through the wringer before the bike was introduced. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Maybe they aren't going to cast them. Maybe they're going to carve them out of billet, or even 3D print them! Rocket in England | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
No, I said basically the same as Dugger, and Court pretty much told me they're "EBR engines not Rotax", I'll try to find the post.... OK it wasn't Court who said the casting thing, it was Badgerbueller1125, supposedly quoting an intern at EBR, from a thread on XB.com. It does jibe with Court's statement though, and I like the sound of it so thats what I believe. Much like with Santa Clause. Seriously. From BuellXB.com posted by "cgreenwalt" who apparently works for EBR based on other posts he has made. "Its an EBR based engine that is simply cast by rotax. The engine assembly happens at EBR and we can expect the casting to be done in the U.S. in the near future as well. EBR owns 100% of this design, not just the rights to call it what we want. " "Design Engineer Intern for Erik Buell Racing" So if that's accurate and they'll be casting in house- (I hope so, it'll give them more flexibility) then they really are EBR engines. But I say again, in the the name of intellectual honesty and internet knowitallery, if Rotax is shipping them cases etc. and they're assembling them, then that's a Rotax engine. I guess you could say Rotax is producing EBR engines too though.....Media's saying things like "heavily reworked Rotax design"...Not that it matters mind you, I just like to be precise, purely academic curiosity. Court, care to weigh in? You're the trusted source here......Does anybody else actually know, aside from third hand info? | ||
| Classax |
Its the same as any other outsourcing procurement strategy. The motor design is EBR's spec perhaps with consultation from Rotax followed by parts manufacturing. EBR is very unlikely to cast in house but there are a number of domestic foundries that could easily handle the task and welcome the opportunity. I suspect they would be close to completing a chassis by now. | ||
| 2kx1 |
I would think they would have S&S do the casting as they have the facilities nearby and have been doing it for a while. | ||
| Ducbsa |
If they do want to stay within WI, there is also Kohler and B&S, just to stay with engine manufacturers. Iron and steel casting seems to be more the target of the EPA than aluminum casting, so there are plenty of US sources for EBR. The dies must have also been Erik's property, not Rotax's. | ||
| M2typhoon |
EBR... Empire of Badass Racers. I can only hope to actually call it this some day. They seem to be on the right track though. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
The only time I dealt with EBR was a few years ago during a "Homecoming" event where I bought a tire. They ended up shipping it to a house across the street and I was lucky enough that the neighbor let me know it had arrived. At that time I had EBR's phone number but have lost that along the way. If their website has a way of actually calling them then I sure can't find it. If you want to buy one of their parts and have a question then it seems you are out of luck. | ||
| Classax |
Well the last time I emailed the Italians for help about a year ago they never responded. EBR gets back to me within hours. I had held out hope for a December delivery but its looking more like early FEBRUARY before we will have a privately owned RX in the Lone Star State. The wait is KILLING me. Especially with all the great end of year deals being made. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
I shot off an email to EBR asking them about the upcoming Chicago IMS and received an answer the next day. | ||
| Ourdee |
Hell. . . .I may start tiding again.Hell. . . .I may start riding again.There, I fixed that for you. You need to! | ||
| Hughlysses |
From EBR's Facebook page this morning:
 Interesting- notice that the fabrication on the header pipes has been changed from the bikes shown in Orlando in October. | ||
| D_adams |
 ?? What's changed? | ||
| Hughlysses |
The pipe on the prototype appears to be a round tube, split down the middle, with a flat section welded in to give a flat-oval tube. The pipe on the production bikes has an outlet transition at the head that connects to a large diameter round pipe. The pipe appears to have been slightly flattened near the inlet and transitions to a round pipe by the time it makes the first bend. Here's a larger pic:  | ||
| D_adams |
Looks like the same spec pipe to me, but with less welding involved. The one on the yellow bike may have been a pre-production unit built to spec for dimensions, the later production piece is just a simplified version and easier to produce in mass quantities. It would require a press to do it, but if you're building 1000+ of them, it would be a worthwhile investment. Setting up the jigs and dies would be the expensive startup costs, I investigated it. A lot. | ||
| Ducbsa |
Those are big pipes, but should be for the higher revs than from my mighty XB12S.  | ||
| Court |
Yes | ||
| Firstbuell |
thanks, Court I'll interpret that news as East Troy's --------HAPPY NEW YEAR--------- | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
Theres probably going to be alot of engineering changes from the initial prototypes. That has been my experience with new product introductions. | ||
| Sparky |
I hear what you are saying, Fig, but I would think that changes from the initial prototypes are going to be more for producibility and cost reduction than engineering deviations from the original design unless, of course, running changes improve the overall specs.  | ||
| Hughlysses |
Another production update from EBR's FB page a few minutes ago:
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| Reepicheep |
The 1190RX, it was born doing a wheelie! | ||
| Hootowl |
I noticed that. Too funny. | ||
| Satori |
That is a beautiful sight. I talked to my dealer in Bellevue Friday, and they said they should have theirs the last half of this month. I know I will be getting a call when they are in. I'm thinking I will have to take one for a ride. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
So grass roots and very much hands on. What a delight to see motorcycles built by hand with simple but very effective techniques. How many per day? Rocket in England | ||
| Satori |
Rocket, good question. If my memory serves in their best years, Buell built 10-12k bikes a year. I am sure Froggy could give us accurate numbers. 10,000 bikes a year would be 50 a day, if you figure they would say stop building current model year in October. Yes I know its an assumption. Figuring that EBR needs to build 1,000 RX's that would be 5 a day. Erik knows how to build bikes in quantity. Judging by the look in the last photo I would guess they are doing at least the 4-5 a day. | ||
| Classax |
They have to have no less 125 ready for inspection by the end of January. I wouldn't be surprised if they were only completing 3 or 4 a day. They assemble the motors and then hang the rest off it(hmmm they have a bike from Italy like that). I'll take the over on a start to finish time of 15 hours per bike. What say you? | ||
| Bads1 |
You are looking at one line. There is other lines. | ||
| Bads1 |
Court did a lot of workers return or is there also a lot of new faces?? I'm sure some found great jobs and have not come back. Just curious?? | ||
| Classax |
You are looking at one line. There is other lines. Really I thought Erik adopted the rolling station method. Where there is one line, and the bikes move from station to station for various operation to be completed before being rolled to the next. | ||
| Midknyte |
>...10,000 bikes a year would be 50 a day... At one of the open houses before the shutdown I think it was mentioned that they were putting out an average of 40 a day with a capability of 80 at the time | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
If they're currently making more than one per day I'd say that's a huge achievement since the demise of Buell. I sincerely hope they can build many more in a day anytime soon. Whatever Erik Buell is in the motorcycle industry, his maverick approach ranks him as one of the most respected individuals in the industry. EBR has a bright future if past success is anything to go by. Rocket in England | ||
| Court |
10,000 a year is entirely possible in terms of available personnel and facilities. The talent is readily available in the East Troy area and the balance of the business park or largely empty. Vendors have been vetted and selected on a number of criteria . . scalability being one of them. The key now is overcoming the predicable start up "chokes" and prevent having to build a hospital. No reason why all the looming benchmarks can't be met successfully. Totally a guess. . . . but I have a pretty good sense of how a model start up flows. | ||
| Reepicheep |
And there is the real mark of someone who "has done this before"... Scalability is the biggest obstacle to a startup, so it is the first thing to get chucked when the fog of war sets in. And lack of scalability is the biggest obstacle to "escaping" startupnessood and becoming a big company. That's not to say there won't be scalability challenges, it is just to say that you have a fighting chance to win them. Kudo's to EBR. | ||
| Court |
>>>>That's not to say there won't be scalability challenges There presently are. The instant situation . . . PURELY GUESSING . . . is akin to holding balloons under water in a bathtub. Two resolved . . .one results. But . . . .the key is not trying to envision a company in which they don't exist, they are a fact of manufacturing life, but rather to have a process to predict and handle them. EBR has a secret weapon. Elves. Yep . . . . some Elves were lost in the shuffle (Triumph got a super talented CEO and Zero one of the world's best CTO's) but some, in fact many, of the most talented in the motorcycle industry have come to East Troy from a couple different continents to form the nucleus of what I'm predicting will be a team as amazing as the resulting product. I'm not new to this. The manufacturing is the domain of folks much smarter than I. The team building in what I've always excelled at. I'm not involved in any way, shape or form . . . my day is long past. But the folks who are . . in my mind . . are the most impressive team ever assembled. This is going to be fun to watch. Court P.S. - my contribution may be limited to coining the term "Elves". :-) | ||
| Bads1 |
Thanks Court. Many line people I met there over the years whether it was homecomings or gatherings motorcycle minded... I just wondered if many came back. They were all very nice people. | ||
| Coolice |
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| Classax |
This came in from one of the dealers in Texas "Looking like late Feb for RX release I'm paraphrasing what I learned today Production mid-February with shipping starting the last week in February. They were very confident in that new timeframe. Apparently, they are waiting on a couple suppliers to get their production parts to EBR. In the meantime they said it is allowing them to put extra time on the prototypes which is going make the production bikes better than expected. No details given. No one ever said building a brand new bike company was easy. At least its a very short delay unlike some other startup brands that havent produced anything yet. I wonder how that will affect homologation inspections? Will they be granted a waiver? Ugh the waiting is killing me. | ||
| Hughlysses |
On a related note, Cory West posted this to Facebook yesterday:
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| Court |
>>>I wonder how that will affect homologation inspections? If they weren't done long ago . . . there's a problem. Where Derek when you need him? | ||
| Firstbuell |
Court, didja forget? "Derek is Eric"..... | ||
| 1313 |
Court, didja forget? "Derek is Eric"..... I'm pretty sure Court got it right. Derek handled homologation - back in the day. Oh, those were the days... But I have a feeling that the EBR days will be at a completely different level! 1313 |
