| Author | Message | ||
     The4ork |
so my s1 /w xb wheels has been eating wheel bearings, specifically the one on the caliper bracket side. also, on that side, the bearing doesnt sit in their loose, but it definately doesnt need a press to get it in/out. i can tap a new bearing in with taps from a mallet, and get it out the same way. Im trying to figure out if I have a issue with spacing (since i have to use spacers to use the xb wheel), too much/little torque on the axle, bearing not seating tight enough, or a combination of these. I havent been using any specific tq on the axle, just 'pretty tight' best guess since its all custom back there anyways. any thoughts? (Message edited by the4ork on December 10, 2013) | ||
| Totalnutah |
use a torque wrench...near enough is not good enough...if you have the ali spacer in the back wheel & you have over tightened it will be like a trumpet each end | ||
| Two_seasons |
There is a hub spacer, aluminum, that goes between the rotor side and pulley side inner bearings/inner race. That spacer has to be snug, not tight, in the LONG direction, but still loose enough in the LAT direction so it can be moved with your finger. Pushing the bearings in too tight can crush the spacer into the inner race of those bearings. If you installing your bearings with a mallet/socket, that may be where the problem starts. Then, when placing and torquing the rear axle, so may be over torquing it by the "pretty tight" method. The trick is to get the rotor bearing and the inner bearing on the pulley side to just touch the AL hub spacer in the LONG direction. There is a little play in the wheel hub spacing for the bearings that can allow the bearings to set hard against that AL hub spacer (in other words, the factory machining has a little +/- in that dimension), so you have to be extra careful here. The Factory Service Manual, also known as FSM, does not explain that! If you do not have a vertical press, you may want to seek professional help, eg; a dealer. (Message edited by two_seasons on December 10, 2013) | ||
| Two_seasons |
I hope Al from American Sport Bike will chime in here. This site really needs to make DIY stickies to explain these things. Each of us could contribute our experiences in those stickies. Just venting...  | ||
| The4ork |
I'm not sure what spacer your referring to. This is an xb wheel so I'm running custom spacers that both space the wheel in the swing arm width wise, as well as take up the gap from the smaller tuber axel in the inner race. It's a custom setup so that's why I'm guessing with the tq. The first time i went with the stock tq method (xb manual) and ate a bearing up in about 400miles. the second time i want to say the tq was 60 or 65 lbs, I wanted to be on the tight side vs the loose side since there are more components to tq and take up tolerances with the added spacers. The axle lasted longer but still failed with only 2300 miles or so. Just wondering why I'm getting bearing failure so often, and just on the one side | ||
| Totalnutah |
inside the xb rear wheel,between the inner bearing faces , is an aluminum tube spacer .. ..part#7 in the picture https://www.ironmachine.com/content/images/thumbs/ 0000628_03_10_buell_xb_series_oem_buell_rear_wheel _bearing_spacer_g032302a8_.jpeg | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
That's where I'd be looking too. There needs to be a spacer between the inner faces of both bearings inner races (#7). Thus when you tighten the spindle the bearings are taking the lateral support along all the spacers to the swing arm, keeping the wheel upright and aligned. If there is no inner spacer (#7) then the wheel becomes reliant on the outer races of both bearings for lateral support. Without a central spacer the effect will be, as the bike leans the load on the bearing from the outer spacers loading the inner races, and the force of the wheel leaning on the outer races, this pushes the bearing into the hub. I can tell you from experience it will eat your hub / bearings very quickly. Note also, the bearings do need to be seated in the hub correctly in relation to the inner spacer or the wheel will attempt to move laterally on the outer rim face of the bearings. Rocket in England | ||
| The4ork |
I do not have this spacer. Must be my problem! Now the question is do I use the s1 spacer? Since I'm using the s1 axle... Or the XB spacer since I'm using the XB wheel? The XB diameter will be the wrong size for the axle however. Suggestions? | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Yes. You need to measure the distance between the bearing inner race, inner face sides, when both bearings are seated in the wheels. The distance between the bearings is the length your inner spacer needs to be. You of course need to make this measurement for both wheels to determine if the spacers are different lengths or not. The correct length is the one which suits your XB wheel if they are different measurements for both wheels, seeing as you are using the XB wheel. Or you could just find out the length of the XB spacer and have a spacer turned up this length but which accommodates the S1 spindle diameter. This way you KNOW the spacer length is correct for the XB wheel and bearing location. Rocket in England | ||
| The4ork |
well if i remember correctly, the inner spacer has nothing to do with the axle correct? i mean the axle does not come in contact with the inner spacer at all, and there is a gap between the two... is this correct? If thats the case, the S1 axle is a smaller diameter than the XB axle, and therefore if i use the factory XB spacer, and an even smaller diameter axle then all should be well. ? | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
If the xb inner spacer stays in the center ,there would no problem! But why not making a complete new spacer with the inner dia like the (s1)tuber axle and the outer dia for seating against the inner xb bearing cone. Maybe it could be done the same way as the custom spacers are (but with a smaller edge that stays in the inner bearing cone),so the axle stays in the center the whole time even when the axle is removed. Or does this sounds to easy? | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I can't speak for the safety of the axle load if you decided to go thinner in diameter. What I can say is yes you are correct the spacer has a gap but you don't want the 'gap' to be too great or the spacer will apply more load to the lower part of the face side of the bearings inner races when the axle is tightened. Thus you want the spacer to be positioned central inside the hub so its loading is distributed around the bearings equally. That said, it's not like we're talking a big gap so it will be obvious to you if there is too much between the axle and the spacer when you look at where the spacer needs to contact the bearings. Rocket in England | ||
| Two_seasons |
The4ork: You absolutely have to make sure that the hub spacer ID is slightly larger than your axle. Then you have to determine the length you need for that hub spacer. The hub spacer must touch the inner race of the bearings evenly across the inner race, once the bearings are installed. You DO NOT want this dimension too long, or too short, as you'll destroy the bearings in short order. In the LONG direction, you should have ZERO movement once the bearings are set against the hub spacer. You should, however, be able to move the hub spacer in the LAT direction slightly. Also, the hub spacer must be the same diameter of the inner race, applying the load evenly across the bearing inner race. | ||
| Al_lighton |
The spacer tube dimensions for the XB/1125 wheels, as well as bearing installation info, can be found in a thread here: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/474350.html#POST1504686 It's been copied to several other threads as well, so you might find the same stuff elsewhere. Once the wheel and it's bearings/spacers are properly built, it's important that the inner races are being held with a certain amount of preload once the axle is torqued. With the XB axle, the spec is to torque it to 50 foot-lbs, back off two turns, and then re-torque to 50 ft-lbs. The back-off is just to clear/lube the threads to reduce thread friction so that much torque, for that axle/thread size, equals a certain amount of preload on the inner races. If you are using an XB axle, you would use the same torque. But if it is a different axle size/thread size, the torque value would be different to achieve the same preload. Al | ||
| The4ork |
I'm so confused on what you guys are saying lol. First things first... Does the internal lateral spacer need to be custom? As far as I know the S1 axle is smaller in OD than the XB axle. So the S1 axle fits inside the XB internal spacer with room to spare. Now also, I'm using XB bearings. The only difference is the spacers seen below. These spacers space the wheel inside the swing arm, as well as fit into the inner races of the bearings to take up the extra room the smaller S1 axle can't fill. So the wheel is now spaced correctly and the axle is now large enough to fit the bearings. <a href="http://s71.photobucket.com/albums/i142/the4ork/Lightning%20rebuild/?action=view¤t=8CB2326F-13F7-4B17-B80C-4BB475E0EB2E.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i142/the4ork/Lightning%20rebuild/8CB2326F-13F7-4B17-B80C-4BB475E0EB2E.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a> So why can't I use all stock XB wheel, bearings, and internal spacer, whilst using these spacers and tuber swing arm? (Message edited by The4ork on December 17, 2013) (Message edited by The4ork on December 17, 2013) | ||
| Pash |
Your inter bearing spacer needs to be concentric with the bearings. The outer spacers need to centralise the inter bearing spacer by protruding maybe 1/4" beyond the bearing. | ||
| S1owner |
Rick Look at this page http://www.purpony.net/xb-fork--wheel-conversion.h tml If you still have issues get ahold of purpony on this site he can guide you through all you need to know | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I can't speak of the exactness of which components you are using, but if there is no interference from other parts that would affect the fitting of a spacer this is what the spacer might look like. If so, if you make the four measurements in the drawing, your spacer should be a perfect fit.  Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
In view of the S1owners post and info from the link. A custom inner spacer SHOULD be used which is a slack but still snug fit over the axle. Thus it needs to be a fraction larger in internal diameter than the axle diameter is, so it slides over and around the axle quite free but not rocks around all over it. The spacers outside diameter needs to be exactly the same as the bearings inner race outer diameter. I would suggest you need to have it this way as the info from the link suggests you're going to have a wall thickness of around 2.5mm on the outer spacer where it passes through the bearings inner race to take up the axle and align it correct. Thus you don't want the inner spacer to be a bit baggy where it doesn't sit nicely on the bearings inner race face. You want it nice and snug so as when torquing it up it will align nice and true in all aspects and load bear where and only where it needs to. Rocket in England | ||
| Buellistic |
May "i" mention the inner wheel spacers ??? IF YOU OVER TIGHTEN(AS IN NOT USING PROPER TORQUE'ING OF) THE AXLE NUTS(FRONT/REAR)IT WILL CRUSH THESE SPACERS AND CAUSE YOUR WHEEL BEARINGS TO SELF DESTRUCT !!! | ||
| The4ork |
 These are the spacers I have, sorry forgot the pic in my above post | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
So why can't I use all stock XB wheel, bearings, and internal spacer, whilst using these spacers and tuber swing arm? In answer to your question and looking at the above pic of the spacers you have.... If your spacers fit the requirements I've shown the measurements for in the diagram I posted, and bear in mind there's a caliper mount to include on one side, then they will work fine. If the measurements you have don't fulfill the diagram as I explained it, then no they will not do. What you have to determine if using the XB inner spacer.... Is its length correct between both bearings inner faces. Does it sit on the S1 spindle central enough to seat on both bearings inner race faces. If you're struggling to grasp, with respect, what is simple enough in explanation here, you should have a professional sort it out for you. Or at the very least, someone who does know what they are doing. Rocket in England | ||
| S1owner |
Have you contacted Purpony? Do a search hear for his name and pm him I am sure he can help you. That is your easiest method for sorting this out he is an excellent builder and a machinist not to mention sorted this out a long time ago. If you are not willing to ask him for help I have nothing to offer | ||
| Purpony |
Im no expert by any means but I can tell you what my setup is and that its been bullet proof for the last couple years. When i did the conversion i first installed new bearings from Al along WITH the XB tub spacer that goes inside the wheel and between the bearings. Also using the custom spacers/reducers and the X1 axle torqued to X1 specs. I would say the missing spacer is your main issue, but incorrect load (axle tq) is also a concern. (Message edited by purpony on December 18, 2013) | ||
| The4ork |
are the bearings your using the stock xb bearings? i got mine from the dealership, but i remember coming across a thread a while back saying the stockers are garbage and a cross ref. # of the stock bearings at a bearing store (forgot the manufacturer they were speaking of) were superior in quality, and possibly i remember them being cheaper as well. again dont quote me on this, i could be thinking of an entirely different vehicle. Also, Purpony, do your spacers look similar to the ones i posed above. Space + reducer for axle? and last question, are you going by the XB tq procedure or the S1 procedure? | ||
| Purpony |
Buell used to use a black bearing that had issues and updated them to an orange bearing. Im using the oem orange bearings. Bought them from American Sport Bike. Yes, the spacers/reducers I made look just like the ones u pictured. I am using X1 axle torque specs. | ||
| Purpony |
Double post (Message edited by purpony on December 22, 2013) |
