| Author | Message | ||
     Froggy |
Here is a quick bit posted today, no new news, but it is good to see more articles being posted http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/columns /0114_eriks_sweet_surprise_cooks_corner/ | ||
| Swamp2 |
Well, I didn't care for the ripping on the Buell models with "heavily tweaked Sportster engines" which I personally rather enjoy, but I agree, the more press coverage for EBR, the better... | ||
| Ratbuell |
In reality though...that's exactly what they were. Objectively, to the press, they weren't true sport bikes just because they were "different in every sense". We see that as a badge of honor. Moto-press sees it as a detriment. That said, I get as much joy out of my air cooled bikes as my 1125. I can't wait to throw a leg over a new one and see how addictive they are  | ||
| Jdugger |
The air-cooled bikes were a niche product at best. | ||
| Classax |
They were/are great handling bikes though. I truly hope the RX delivers the goods and is well refined and sorted. Had it been released in 2010 it would have given the 999/1098/1198 crowd fits, but in 2014 it already seems a step behind in a class of bikes that require electronic rider aids in order mere mortals to fully access them. Buells have always had terrible timing either being ahead or behind their time. Either way I still cant't help but enjoy them. (Message edited by classax on November 26, 2013) | ||
| Swamp2 |
Well, I have a CR too but I have to say my XB9R with it's old-tech motor is the most fun bike I've ever ridden. I think that motor has wonderful character. There's more to fun than just having a balls-out motor. Anyway, I know I'm I preaching to the choir here, and I applaud EBR for what they're doing. But, it annoys me a bit that the older models weren't appreciated more for their well rounded excellence and uniqueness - at least by the mainstream press. For Mr. Cook to imply they weren't good, well - that's just plain wrong. | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
"Those had promising chassis with powerplants you can only say were "better than they should have been." Don't confuse that with good." The man's being honest. If I'm honest, that's why I never even considered buying a Buell before the 1125R, although I was always a cheerleader.I was always carrying the water for Buells while knowing in my heart I'd rather have an SV650. Because of the tweaked Sportster engine. The one I rode felt exactly that- "Better than it should have been." And that's coming from a former SV1K and Sportster owner. If anyone would understand the appeal it's me. Dirt track? Sure. Uly? Why not? Focussed sportbike? Nope. As sportbikes go? They're overweight and severely underpowered, nowhere near "good". Defend them if you like, but understand you're in the minority. they make a really cool "muscle bike", but then they're too techy to appeal to that crowd. I think they're a cool alternative streetbike, but "good" when compared to other sportbikes? No. The market reflects that, and unfortunately that's where they were competing. I do love the whole Ully concept- but again not really a sportbike. If you just look at them as a standard, upright motorcycle like a UJM, they're fantastic. But they're not compared to UJM's, they're compared to sportbikes. None of which was really Erik's fault, he wanted to go water cooled since the 80's. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I can only speak to my experience. An XB9S (much less an XB12S) would kick an SV-650's ass six ways to sunday. I've ridden both. Handling better, power better, brakes better, you name it. The SV was probably more reliable than the 12, though I bet it is less reliable than the 9. I know I fixed more things on my buddies "from new" SV650 in 30k miles than I fixed on my "from new" 05 XB9SX in 30k miles. I consider chain replacement and valve adjustments a preventative repair, not "normal maintenance". The SV handles different... you set a lean and it just holds it (while the XB is configured to snap out of a turn when you stop pushing it down). I prefer the XB character, but it's a preference thing. | ||
| Jdugger |
> An XB9S (much less an XB12S) would kick an > SV-650's ass six ways to sunday. At least at the local club level, that's not turned out to be even remotely close to true. The SV dominates the lightweight twins classes and Formula-2. There's a couple of odd-ball, air-cooled, Ducati "frankenbikes" that have done well, too, but not any Buells in recent memory. | ||
| Mikeyp |
Classax: The new RX has traction control and 185 hp (claimed), so i feel it is right on par with the offerings from Asia and Europe. It also looks sexy as well. I think EBR got it together. | ||
| Reepicheep |
With stock suspension and engine Jdugger? Having ridden both bikes, I find that very surprising. | ||
| Classax |
Mikeyp:The new RX has traction control and 185 hp (claimed), so i feel it is right on par with the offerings from Asia and Europe. It also looks sexy as well. I think EBR got it together. I think its got to be more than just about the spec sheets this time. On paper the 1125r was a monster for its day, but the reality proved much less so. Worse yet the push to get them out on HD timetable saw them release with too many gremlins for the press to ignore. I test rode MV Agusta's new F3 800 which is the other bike competing for my $$$ this season. The dash was near useless as were the mirrors and while it has riding modes and adjustable electronic near everything, I had a very hard time coming to grips, as it were with the ultra light feel of the ride by wire throttle. It would take me a great deal of time to get used to it. Other than that and the fact that the clutch cover was SCORCHING hot(right by my right thigh/knee) by the end of the ride, It's not a bad buy at all. In the RX EBR is taking a mechanical approach to performance levels that everyone save Honda(sorry KTM isn't at that level, yet) has attacked with software. Last time Buell was not ready for or competitive with the market because of HD, this time its all on EB of EBR. So I agree on the RX specs and looks but I'm optimistically agnostic on whether it will be fully sorted at delivery. Still I can hardly wait to see for myself. | ||
| Swamp2 |
Well, although I couldn't be rooting more for Erik and EBR - I'm not in line to buy an 1190RX. I still like my old anachronistic air cooled Buells. But I hope the RX totally kicks butt! Erik deserves it. (Message edited by swamp2 on December 03, 2013) | ||
| Ezblast |
An XBRR would be nice but HD is too dumb to produce that. EZ | ||
| Hootowl |
Shame they killed the turbo XB9 simply because HD insisted on developing their own turbo in house and failed. I think that would have been a great bike. | ||
| Firstbuell |
wazzit the XB9 or the XB12 that was to be factory turbo-ed? | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
"With stock suspension and engine Jdugger? Having ridden both bikes, I find that very surprising." Apparently, you've never done a track day. There will be a thousand I-4's, six or eight liter twins- (SV1k/Superhawk/Ducati/RC51 etc), a smattering of SV650's and one or two Buells, if any. Accept for a very few, very talented riders (which I've never actually seen) the air cooled Buell will be about the slowest thing out there, while SV650's eating up Gixxer thous in the corners is a "thing". Short-track day? All the liters go home and the SV's swarm out like hornets. Check VIR's half mile road course on any given Sunday. The SV650 built it's rep on racetracks, not as a commuter. That's why SV people are so rabid about them... poor man's Ducati. Which is funny, because on paper, they're not racey at all. That's why the Gladius doesn't sell. They went totally comuter and screwed up the chassis, it doesn't handle, and nobody wants to track them. Suzuki even changed the name this year from gladius to S650-V or somesuch- to no avail. I never actually raced, but Dugger's gotta be right on that one. Hell, I don't even recall air cooled Buells doing that well in Moto-ST. Any rider you put on a bike with a cruiser engine that weighs significantly more than anything else in it's class and has ZERO overrev will be at an instant disadvantage. It's just that simple. Speaking of MotoST, this is from Motorcyclist in 2008, the guy's running a MotoST race with the James Gang Buell team. The first lap provided plenty of excitement, hurtling three- and four-wide around the notoriously fast Road America circuit mixed in such a diverse group of bikes. In practice, quite frankly, I was lost on the Buell, struggling to break the 2:45 lap-time mark on a track where I've turned high 2:30s on the less-powerful Team MS Racing Suzuki SV650 I'm accustomed to racing. Scrappy was set up for owner Paul James-Harley-Davidson/Buell Communication Manager and the 2006 CCS SuperTwins Regional Champion. I wasn't comfortable enough on the unfamiliar bike to match James' corner speeds, which made the bike seem over-geared and dreadfully slow out of corners. Yes, that DOES say 15 seconds slower on the more powerful Buell, and that's how most people feel when they ride one. Which is why they never sold that well, or enjoyed mainstream racing successs outside of a few specific clases. The fact that they could compete at all is tastament to Erik Buell's genius. I've chased a few air cooled Buells on the street and been eaten up by them. (And thought it was fantastic!) But being fast on a back road and fast on a track are two completly different things. It's probably not in the cards but i hope EBR eventually offers something like an SV650 as an entry level model down the road. (Message edited by sir_wadsalot on December 06, 2013) (Message edited by sir_wadsalot on December 06, 2013) | ||
| Reepicheep |
I've done two track days, but only in the Novice class. And I've ridden a couple different SV650's (though on the track, not on the street). There were SV's there, but in the novice class it is all about the rider. To me both stock SV650's that I rode felt like a stock XB9 with a little less top end HP, a lot less low end HP, and a little less precise handling. Don't get me wrong, the SV was a great bike and I liked it. Just not as much as an XB9 S. It could be me. That stupid tank flare on the SV was engineered for somebody substantially less than 6'2". It is too far back and it makes me ride spread legged. I'm also pretty heavy, and it is possible my weight was simply too far outside the stock SV suspension envelope. | ||
| Nik |
I know in WERA LWTSB Buells have to be at super sport spec to compete against the super bike sv650s. So the sv650s can dramatically improve their (old school damper rod conventional fork) suspension. Not quite apples to apples. | ||
| Jdugger |
Typical super-stock mods for both the XB9R and SV650 would be shock replacement and fork internals upgrades. It's also not uncommon to graft a Gixxer front end onto the SV650 chassis and run it in Superbike classes. The SV has been a staple of lightweight racing since I got involved. It's a good machine. | ||
| Blake |
The comparison at the track is bogus. SVs completely overwhelm the class and as a result enjoy availability vast surplus of racing kit. Buell XB9's were few. Stock bikes? The SV is left for dead on the track versus an XB9. That's just simple fact. Add new suspension and kit the SV's engine, the situation reverses. Ed Key had/has the ultimate kitted SV race bike. It's darn near MotoGP in levels of exotic alloy hardware and lightening rework. He was routinely besting even the XB12s in thunder bike classes. Great fun. The SVs are good, cheap, reliable, sound great, and have plentifully available racing kit. In club racing, that pretty much means dominance. It says little about the stock machine performance. You get what you pay for. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"The SVs are good, cheap, reliable, sound great, and have plentifully available racing kit. In club racing, that pretty much means dominance. It says little about the stock machine performance." agreed. its like E30 bimmers or hondas - stock they arent that crazy, but with the availability of them and the low price its easy to get involved with them, that and the combinations have been tried countless times so it takes a lot of guess work out of it. | ||
| Court |
The SV650 was almost a perfect "made for the little guy to take to the track" bike. Out of the box . . . it wouldn't even stay in the shadow of an XB. But the plethora of available . . downright cheap . . upgrades . . . made it a mainstay and legendary in getting folks (Like Henrik) on the track who would otherwise not have been able to. I've never ridden an SV650 but have tons of respect for what it did for the industry. | ||
| Ronbob43 |
My steps 1988 Honda Hawk GT 2002 Suzuki SV 650 2009 XB9SX Good-Better-Best | ||
| Firstbuell |
oh Ronrob, youse got dat V-fever - BAD !! (Message edited by firstbuell on December 07, 2013) | ||
| Slaughter |
I raced BOTH the XB9 and SV650. With the SV using GSXR front end and Penske rear and minor engine work, both the XB and SV were pretty equal. The XB was more finicky to setup but once they were both setup, my lap times were identical. I even had back-to-back races where they'd allow my pit crew to have the one bike leaned up on the hot pit wall, idling and I'd roll in, do a "pony express" change of machines and roll out for warmup on the other. It was about as back to back as you could get. That's just my own experience. I do know there was a HUGE amount of motor left in the SV that I never explored. | ||
| Bsanorton |
The conversation between the SV and XB I've read in interest. I'm a novice track day rider and have been thinking about getting a track bike. Have done track days on a tube frame X1 and a Triumph 955. to tell you the truth, although the 955 was smooth as glass, I didn't think I could wring out the benefits on a track with many turns (Jennings GP). I preferred using the X1. I was going to buy an older 600 or SV650 setup for the track, now you have me thinking about a XB9. Any thoughts? Is there a class for the XB9 in WERA or more for the SV650 (in case I decided to go further and race it)? But I am really more interested in vintage racing and was going to a buy 'modern' track bike to hone my skills and get my license on. Want to keep my options open | ||
| Reepicheep |
Don't get me wrong, if you did want to do a lot of track days, the SV would probably be the better choice, just because there are so many nice donor partsfalling off the street bikes of testosterone poisoned 18 year old boys every spring. Tons of SV "how to make it work on the track" knowledge as well. The XB would be a bit more interesting though, and for me interesting is entertaining, so I would personally consider that route. I went with a KDX-200 instead. My motorcycle play time is in the woods. Lots cheaper than track days. | ||
| Bsanorton |
I do like interesting and I love Buells! |
