| Author | Message | ||
     Davegess |
Yeah Colin is very sad,riding some of th \e coolest bikes on the planet with the best riders in the world and getting paid for it. I can't understand why he doesn't just quit. Oh yeah he is having a blast! | ||
| Trojan |
Vale is done, he will be done after this season cause no factory team will take him. and hopefully he will not become so desperate to end up like collin edwards riding slow bikes and getting beat by guys half his age yawnnnn!! next post please. | ||
| Blake |
>>> Vale is done, he will be done after this season cause no factory team will take him. I'm no gambling man, and I'd wager my entire net worth against the veracity of that moronic assertion. | ||
| Jaimec |
If Vale leaves after the 2014 season, it'll be on HIS terms, not because Yamaha doesn't want him any more. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Given the Burgess issue, if Rossi believes he still has 'it' at the end of his Yamaha contract, it would not now surprise me to see him on a Honda 2015.Providing it's still the dominant bike of course. Rocket in England | ||
| Jaimec |
If Rossi isn't a regular visitor to the podium in 2014, then I believe he will willingly retire. He's already seen what the M1 is capable of in Lorenzo's hands. Considering that the reason he left Honda in the first place was to prove it was HIS skills and NOT the machinery that made the difference, I doubt he'd go back to them simply because they had the better machine. I also believe that his frustration at Ducati was not so much the equipment, but in the way the Ducati team responded to his input (the same way they responded to Stoner, Hayden, Dovi, Melandri et al; they DIDN'T). So now Rossi is on a machine he KNOWS is capable of winning. Next year he'll have a new engineer, one apparently more familiar with "bits and bytes" than Jeremy. If that doesn't work, then he'll KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that HE is the missing piece. Once (IF) that realization sits in, he'll stop racing and just go on to being a team manager or something. That is MY prediction, any way. | ||
| Trojan |
I agree with jaimec and think that unless Rossi can pose a serious regular podium threat next year then he will retire. However....Yamaha are still VERY keen to keep Rossi in the camp for as long as they possibly can, even if he is no longer winning races on a regular basis. Why is that? Because he is the best advertising material that they (or any other brand) has in its possession. Take a look at even the most recent Yamaha advertising and promotional work and it is Ropssi that features, not Lorenzo. Whether it is for the R25 250cc sports bike or the tarted up MT09 at the Milan show, it was Rossi they chose to sit on the bike. Lorenzo was shuffled off onto more mundane transport on the edge of the stage. Likewise, Dorna know that Rossi is the 'bridge' between motorcycle savvy spectators and casual watchers of MotoGP. Even if you know nothing about bike racing you know Rossi abd that sells tickets, boosts TV audiences and therefore sells TV advertising time. When he leaves the series they will be wondering where their next cash cow will come form, and even Marquez doesn't have the media attraction that Rossi has generated in his career. Even if Rossi hangs up his leathers at the end of 2014 (which I doubt) I think we'll see him in the paddock and as a Yamaha ambassador in future, like we see Agostini these days (and occasionally Phil Read, who seems to be back on Yamahas Christmas card list after years of being shunned by the company). | ||
| Glitch |
I think Matt and Jaime should do a Moto Racing Blog together, I'd bet it'd be informative and entertaining. I get more from y'alls conversations here than I do from the "professional moto-news" guys. | ||
| Jaimec |
I'd add "...outside of Spain."  | ||
| Bads1 |
But Im thinking with the right amount thought they could come up with a way to get the fans to love him if his PR do it right?? Maybe use a urinal after a win?? Go kiss a pretty girl in the stands?? You know the same type of stuff Rossi did to win the hearts of all. | ||
| Jaimec |
That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me today... :-) | ||
| Davegess |
Matt, you have that exactly right. Rossi is Elvis, bigger than the sport. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
He's already seen what the M1 is capable of in Lorenzo's hands. Considering that the reason he left Honda in the first place was to prove it was HIS skills and NOT the machinery that made the difference, I doubt he'd go back to them simply because they had the better machine. Rossi states in his biography he left Honda as he wanted more input with bike and team which Honda were not willing to give. Rossi met secretly for an informal meeting with a handful of Yamaha's people, Burgess accompanying Rossi. Yamaha at this meeting offered Rossi an open book to do as he pleased if he'd join them. More a case of Rossi had taken the V5 as far as he felt had fulfilled his ambitions. The Yamaha deal offered a pretty exciting new challenge for him as it really was the underdog bike at that time. I don't believe in 2003 Rossi had to prove to anyone it was he and not the Honda that were allowing him to win so consistently. We might see before the end of his career Rossi will ride any bike he can win on and I do not agree that the Yamaha is a winning bike. It is more of a winning bike when the circumstances inhibit the Honda for whatever reason. If we look at the wins of Lorenzo this season it's pretty clear it's not a winning bike despite Lorenzo's eight wins. Qatar, Losail. First race of the new season. Rossi pushed hard to get 2nd, with new to Moto GP, Marquez securing 3rd. Not what I would call an emphatic Yamaha win. Italy, Mugello. Grip a big problem for both Honda and Yamaha all weekend. Marquez fell in every practice, the last being the near flat out 200mph off. He fell out of the race too after passing Pedrosa. Not what I would call an emphatic Yamaha win. Spain, Catalunya. Lorenzo's home circuit and an emphatic Lorenzo win. Britain, Silverstone. Lorenzo wins by 81 thousandths of a second from Marquez. Thrilling race with Lorenzo contacting Marquez, both exchanging the lead between one another in the final laps. Another Lorenzo win and one that could have gone to Marquez by a mere fraction of a second. Again not an emphatic Yamaha win. Italy, San Marino. Lorenzo made a lightning quick start heading off with a 2 second gap within a few laps. Lap 5 Marquez made a costly mistake on the brakes trying to passing Pedrosa, allowing Rossi through into 3rd. Marquez fights back but settles for 2nd place. More Marquez's loss than Yamaha's win. Australia, Philip Island. Marquez and the infamous black flag incident. Enough said! Japan, Motegi. Lorenzo again gets the holeshot. Marquez gives chase ultimately settling for a secure 2nd place knowing Lorenzo has only a slim chance of the title at the last round. A Lorenzo win making the best of what was very limited track time all weekend due to adverse weather conditions. Not a Yamaha win so much. Valencia, Spain. Lorenzo aggressive over Pedrosa knowing he has to win to have a chance of the title, Marquez sits back and watches from a safe and title securing 3rd place. Just my take on it. Rocket in England (Message edited by rocket_in_uk on November 21, 2013) | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I agree with jaimec and think that unless Rossi can pose a serious regular podium threat next year then he will retire..... Even if Rossi hangs up his leathers at the end of 2014 (which I doubt) So Matt, you think Rossi will retire if he isn't a serious podium threat next year, yet you doubt he will hang up his leathers at the end of 2014. I'd say that's you keeping the faith, lol. Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
Not what I would call an emphatic Yamaha win Any win is emphatic, even if it is by a hairs breadth. The Yamaha is certainly an inferior machine to the Honda this year, so any win by Lorenzo (or Rossi) must be seen as going against the grain and considered emphatic. To win 8 of them (and Rossi 1) is more than emphatic regardless of the actual circumstances, as in racing there will always be some circumstances making it much less clear cut. Marquez ccrashed out at Mugello because he was trying too hard, as was Lorenzo and Pedrosa when they both injured themselves this year. That just proves how close to the edge the leading riders are now, and how the whole championship balances on outside influences such as injury and weather just as much as on bikes or rider ability. So Matt, you think Rossi will retire if he isn't a serious podium threat next year, yet you doubt he will hang up his leathers at the end of 2014. I think that if he doesn't pose a regular podium trheat next year then he will retire from MotoGp as a rider. I really don'ty think he will go back to Tavullia with pipe and slippers though, and can see him being a regular feature of MotoGP for years to come, either as a team owner, Yamaha ambassador, commentator or even pit lane pundit. Whatever it is I don't think we've seen anywhere near the last of him, regardless of his riding status. He may of course decide to move across to WSB once he finishes with MotoGP, especially once Yamaha have a new R1 to race. He has mentioned it more than once before and the attraction of winning another championship must be quite appealing to him  | ||
| Jaimec |
It would also make him possibly the FIRST "World Champion" in both series; an opportunity Nicky passed on this year. | ||
| Jaimec |
Crashing statistics for 2013: http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Nov/131122u.ht m Interesting statistic regarding Indianapolis, too. Sounds like all the complaints about that track are just a bunch of whiny little cry babies. Makes sense, because the person who used to complain the loudest Casey "The Moaner" Stoner. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Yes they're emphatic wins in that sense Matt, though the reality remains likely six of those wins were as you say down to circumstance much less clear cut. It's like I said before. If Rossi and Lorenzo were on Hondas this year too, there would have been four title contenders regardless of the less clear cut circumstances. What Lorenzo did this season was good, but c'mon, he had some luck (Marquez black flag) and a less combative Marquez (securing his points tally) letting him win the last couple. If it were not for the black flag Marquez would have won that race and likely the next two knowing he'd wrapped the title up. Lorenzo's 8 wins do not really paint the picture of the season he really raced. Rocket in England | ||
| Jaimec |
You call Lorenzo shattering his collar bone not once, but TWICE (out of three crashes ALL season) "Lucky?" Lucky is the kid who crashed FIFTEEN TIMES and walked away from each and every one and claimed the title. THAT'S lucky. (Message edited by jaimec on November 23, 2013) | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
The difference is Jamie, I'm not slating Lorenzo. Nor am I championing his efforts this season. I'm merely pointing out once Marquez settled in to the Moto GP house, it was only ever his title to lose. But he didn't. He won it, and won it easily and he didn't need any LUCK to do so. On the other hand, Lorenzo had a fair bit of LUCK to claim eight wins. Had that LUCK not started with Marquez's black flag, that would have been another win for him and the title safe. Knowing so he would have raced the wheels off that Honda and won the last two too. You know it. I know it. Everyone with half a brain knows it. For some reason though, you seem to believe Lorenzo could have won it on a Yamaha entirely reliant on his brilliant abilty. That Jamie is delusional if you believe it coz it was never gonna happen without a fair bit of LUCK. Rocket in England | ||
| Jaimec |
<rolling_eyes_and_just_walking_away> | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I just wonder what races some people watch. End of the day I am not satisfied. We should be watching a sport that's competitive by many riders and many bikes. We are not. I refuse to be sold that the sport is as competitive as it should be when witnessed by Lorenzo's efforts on a Yamaha. Dorna have a lot to answer for. Quite frankly it's a four person race series on two bikes campaigned by one manufacturer with likely one of the two winning unless by "LUCK" or "some circumstances less clear cut" one of the other two riders on one of the bikes from the other manufacturer picks up the pieces, which despite Lorenzo's valiant effort all season was exactly where he was at. Not good enough! Rocket in England (Message edited by rocket_in_uk on November 24, 2013) | ||
| Jaimec |
Apparently ONLY Yamaha and Honda have the funds to finance the R&D required to build winning bikes AND afford to pay the truly talented riders. Everyone else picks up the scraps. So much for Dorna making the series affordable. OTOH, DMG tried to level the playing field in AMA SBK, because everyone was growing tired of the "Ben & Mat Show" week in and week out. So after all of their efforts, we end up with the "Josh & Josh" show instead. The more things change... At least MotoGP has more than just two riders fighting at the front. World Superbike SEEMED to have the correct formula, but it looks like Dorna is doing everything they can to sabotage that series next. | ||
| Trojan |
Had that LUCK not started with Marquez's black flag, that would have been another win for him and the title safe. I think there was a fair amount of luck (both good and bad) on both sides. Marquez definitely benefitted from Lorenzo and Pedrosa getting hurt, while Lorenzo obviously gained from Marquez crashing at Mugello and then getting black flagged in Australia. They probably end up cancelling each other out and are just a part of the racing season after all. I think in the end the best rider on the best bike won the series this year, and that is how it should be. Next year I think we will unfortunately see a much bigger performance gap between Honda and Yamaha, and until they scrap the stupid fuel limits and engine rules the gap will only get wider between them, and between the factory bikes and the 'also rans' that make up the bulk of the field. Ducati and Suzuki are unlikely to even get close to the top two factories under the current rules so we have more of the same to look forward to for at least the next 2 years methinks  Moto2 may be 'dumbed down' racing adn people don't like the spec engine rules, but you have to admit it provides some of the best racing we have seen in the last few years and throws up different winners from different teams time and again. Of course there are the usual suspects at or near the front but also get much more variety on the podium and much more entertaining racing. What should be do with MotoGP to make it better? get rid of fuel limits (or at least make them achieveable by private teams), increase engine allocation, ban seamless transmission (or allow DCT technolgy to make it cheaper), ban pneumatic valves to make a start. If the manufacturers don't like it then are free to leave (which they won't in the end despite the noises they continue to make every year). | ||
| Trojan |
There is some justice in the biek racing world after all! Gino Rea has announced that he will do a full season moto2 next year for a Texas based team (AGT). For those that don't know, Gino lost his place when the team he signed for folded before the start of the 2013 season. He then privately financed his own wild card rides (in a shoestring budget) on an FTR by getting supporters to send money, and at the last round of the year qualified just 0.5 seconds off pole and finished 13th. A true privateer effort and he has got his just rewards for it. http://www.bikesportnews.com/news-detail.cfm?newst itle=Gino-Rea-set-for-full-Moto2-season-in-2014&ne wsid=10972 | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Marquez definitely benefitted from Lorenzo and Pedrosa getting hurt, while Lorenzo obviously gained from Marquez crashing at Mugello and then getting black flagged in Australia. They probably end up cancelling each other out and are just a part of the racing season after all. No doubt Matt. But come on. Marquez would have took the last two in storming style had he not have received the black flag. That would put Lorenzo's tally down to 5 wins. A much more representative tally for his season of hard trying when compared to what would have been 9 to Marquez. Lorenzo 8 Marquez 6 should have been Marquez 9 Lorenzo 5. That's the real tell tale of the season. Rocket in England | ||
| Smoke |
the results are the results. shoulda, woulda, and coulda have no bearing. Marquez put himself into the position of being able to be in protect mode for the final races so there was no major challenging for the lead to step up both of the leader's paces or possibly push past existing grip. Congrats to Mark Marquez on his season. remarkable racer! | ||
| Trojan |
I agree smoky If Lorenzo had a lead to defend at the last few rounds he would hacve ridden for points too, that is the way it works. Lorenzo pulled some stellar rides out of the bag in 2013, notably at Silverstone and while injured at Assen, but from the start of the year it was pretty obvious that Honda were better and Marquez was the real deal. I hope next year can live up to this season, but I have a sneaking feeling that Honda may move the goalposts even further away with teh new fuel limits At leaast we'll have the new rookies and new 'open class bikes' to cheer on in midfield while Marquez disapears at the front I suppose | ||
| Trojan |
I think Matt and Jaime should do a Moto Racing Blog together, I'd bet it'd be informative and entertaining. I get more from y'alls conversations here than I do from the "professional moto-news" guys. Missed that post until now, so a belated thank you from me too Our new web site will launch in December to replace our current 3 webs sites. This will have a blog page so everyone is welcome there too, We'll feature bike builds, new products, news and just things that look interesting in the bike world generally. The new site will replace the current www.twinshack.com site hopefully around 20 December and will include outr Buell and Harley products in addition to Triumph and all the metrics under one roof for the firswt time. | ||
| Jaimec |
Marquez is just lucky he's still young with flexible bones. If Pedrosa crashed as often as he did this season, he'd be out of racing by now. Same holds true for Lorenzo and DEFINITELY for Rossi. |
