| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
Nope... the rule did NOT clearly state "not to complete more than ten laps before pitting." It CLEARLY said "MUST change machine at the END of lap 9 or 10." This past weekend's race was brought to you by the Number 11. | ||
| Jaimec |
Even HONDA admits that Lorenzo is the most complete rider on the grid at the moment. They've made it clear that it's not YAMAHA that's beaten them in six races this season... it was Lorenzo. | ||
| Simond |
I love the quote from Colin Edwards! He clearly defines a mathematician as someone who can count beyond ten.... | ||
| Jaimec |
I'm just wondering: So which organization is guilty of the biggest Screw-Up in motorcycle racing? AMA/DMG for the "Safety Car" fiasco at Laguna Seca a few years ago... or Dorna for NOT testing at Philip Island when they KNEW the track was being resurfaced AND a series they control (World Superbikes) already complained of tire issues earlier this year and coming up with this hare-brained scheme to work around that? | ||
| Pwnzor |
In normal circumstances First time ever requiring a pit stop, clearly the circumstances were not normal. I'm pissed off at the team, they are the ones who TOLD Marquez when to pit. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Honda can say what they like. Rossi has not shown me at any time this season he is not the racer he use to be. In fact the opposite is more accurate as an appraisal of his riding. No one can say Rossi is not as fast as he was from whenever. The stat's show he is capable of racing at the front and winning every race. He just hasn't got the machine under him right now. Lorenzo on the other hand has. If Lorenzo presents the closest benchmark to Rossi we have, I've seen nothing from Lorenzo this season any different from previous. Given that Rossi was the man for Lorenzo to beat once upon a time, I don't see that Lorenzo has improved noticeably since nor Rossi lost some of his magic since. That leaves the Yamaha. When I look at the Yamaha there is one thing that stands out every race and that is how much further in front Lorenzo's is to the other three, and in that how closer to the Tech Yam's are to Rossi's. Now if you or anyone else is going to tell me Rossi is closer to the Tech Yam's because he's lost some of his magic, I'd have to ask what you're smoking! I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but come on, it's obvious the Lorenzo bike is overall faster than Rossi's by around 200th of a second per lap every race. That kind of finite consistency is not down to Lorenzo being that little bit better than Rossi. It's down to the bike as it is the hard physical constant in the equation. Rocket in England | ||
| Jaimec |
Yamaha has been building the Yamaha around Lorenzo's riding style for the past two years. It now favors Lorenzo's style of early braking and high corner speeds. Rossi is more of a "Late Braker" and has a very different riding style. When Yamaha built the bike around him, no one could touch him... but now he has to figure out essentially how to ride Lorenzo's bike and he's been having difficulty adapting. He also was NEVER good at getting the hole shot. He was always better at picking riders off one at a time and managing tires at the end of the race. By the time Rossi gets into his groove, Lorenzo and Pedrosa have long ago checked out at the front. And by the way, even before Rossi broke his leg in Mugello, it was obvious even then that Lorenzo had his number and was likely to beat him head-to-head that year on the Yamaha even if he'd remained healthy all year. | ||
| Trojan |
I don't see that Lorenzo has improved noticeably since nor Rossi lost some of his magic since. Lorenzo has improved hugely since Rossi went to Ducati. The problem for us mere mortals is that we can't see the improvements when sat in front of the TV. Cal Crutchlow has said that he is in awe of Jorge when he looks at the data traces, and that if he tried to ride the same way he would crash without doubt. Lorenzo is so smooth that he never looks like he is trying hard, when in fact he rides much harder and takes more risks in the early laps than anyone else. That is why he is so much quicker at the start of the race with a full fuel load. Also, as Jaimec so rightly says, Yamaha have been building the bike to suit Lorenzo for 3 years now, so Rossi/Crutchlow/Smith have to either alter their riding style (very hard to do) or try to set the bike up to suit their style which inevitably makes the bike worse than Lorenzo's. Lastly, and this is a point that has been raised more than once this year, Lorenzo is lighter than Rossi and Cal, so can go further or faster for the same amount of fuel. Both Rossi and Cal have run out of fuel onmore than one occasion on the slow down lap (last lap in Japan for Cal last year). Lorenzo hasn't come close to running out of fuel yet, despite being faster than the other Yamaha pilots. It is surely only a matter of time before DORNA amend the rules to fit in with every other GP class, and have a sensible combined weight rather than the current structure which suits definitely pint sized jockeys better than full grown men. Yamaha have definitely fallen behind in the power stuggle with Honda this year. You only have to look at the minor places to see that Bautista and Bradl are getting much better results than they did at the start of the year. I have a sneaky feeling that we will see Lorenzo on a Repsol bike alongside Marquez within 2 years unless yamaha can catch up pretty quickly. Now that would cause some stress in the garage! | ||
| Jaimec |
So you think Repsol will drop Honda and sponsor Yamaha, then?  | ||
| Trojan |
Ha ha ha....that'll be the day. Lorenzo is more likely to drop Yamaha and defect to Honda though. he was tempted last year and admitted that he probably signed for Yamaha too early, so I expect him to be even more sorely tempted next year by a fat pay cheque and a fast bike. That would leave Yamaha with Pol Espagaro and maybe Rossi if he decides to stay put for another couple of years, so it could be a long period of Honda domination (again)................Unless of course Gigi Dall'Igna really can walk on water and turn the Ducati donkey into a race horse. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I accept that Lorenzo is less of a hot head these days which adds to his consistency but that does not tell me he is faster than Rossi per se. Has Crutchlow mentioned Rossi's data traces? As for the hole shot. Rossi has improved his grid position during the latter part of this season and he is getting off the line in the leading group though quickly dispatched by the factory Honda's, and Lorenzo's Yamaha. Maybe that is the weight thing right there. Riding styles and bikes built around certain riders, to a degree yes, but Rossi has got the Yamaha much better now than in the early races, but the last few milliseconds gap lap for lap between Rossi and Lorenzo does not ring true to me as it being Lorenzo that millisecond per lap quicker every lap by his skill. Weight then, it seems to me is favouring Lorenzo just enough to keep him faster than the other Yamaha's and closer to the Honda's where no other Yamaha can get. Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
Weight is a factor but not the whole story. Add that to the other reasons and a fraction of a second turns into 10ths and then whole seconds difference over race distance. Lorenzo puts in more laps than anyone else in testing, and is almost always one of the first out in practice and immediately up to speed. Sonce Rossi broke his leg he has seemed more hesitant, and his style has changed very slightly but visibly. At times on the Ducati it looked like someone else riding in his leathers! he is not getting any younger now either and knows that time is not on his side. Lorenzo has matured and is now at the age that Rossi was at the height of his powers, so is now just plain faster than Vale | ||
| Xb1125r |
Lorenzo was amazing, best race of the year. Lorenzo showed how experience, FOCUS is needed to win. | ||
| Trojan |
Lorenzo was amazing, best race of the year. Would he have won of Marquez was not conveniently black flagged? As for 'best race of the year' it may have added to the TV spectacle but it certainly wasn't the best race I've seen. It could qualify for 'biggest •••• up of the year' though. | ||
| Jaimec |
The biggest difference between Rossi and Lorenzo is in the opening laps. NO ONE pushes as hard from the beginning than Lorenzo. Not even Pedrosa, who was the first to use his light weight and lightning starts to win races. Lorenzo is very good at identifying his own weaknesses and working on them HARD. There were reports that for Philip Island he was seen working with his pit crew practicing jumping off one bike and onto another over and over. At the beginning of his career he also used to get buried at the start of the races and had to work his way up. He worked on that so that now in damn near every race he's first through the first turn (whether he started on the first or second row it doesn't seem to matter). By the way, Lorenzo may be lighter than Rossi, but he is considerably bigger than both Marquez and Pedrosa. I believe he just works HARDER on his "weaknesses" than anyone else currently on the grid. He's become the master of knowing when to hit like a hammer, or be as smooth as butter... | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Regarding the Rossi debate. This season he's shown he's still as fast and skillful as he always was. He's got up to speed and race consistency, and to a point where if he were on a bike capable of consistently winning it certainly looks like he would be fighting for wins. I don't see Lorenzo is so minutely faster time wise with such consistency every race that it's his ability and skill which makes him so, and a convincing argument I've yet to hear to support such. No rider is a swiss watch. Looking at motorcycle racing fitness, Moto GP could be forgiven for being seen as the number one fit club for young boys who spend all day in a gym, when listening to some speaking of the new young guns coming up. There are motorcycle racing disciplines the world over which show that older racers in their 30's and even 40's are the ones to beat. The tough world of SuperBike racing and pure Road Racing shows often and not just freak periods where old guys win. If Rossi were racing the Island, much much much harder on the body than a Moto GP's paltry 40 odd minutes racing around a smooth race track, there would be none of this nonsense that Rossi's age is against him. Tell that to Joey Dunlop, John McGuinness, Mike Hailwood, Steve Hislop (who at 41 was looking to get his BSB career back on track before he was killed in a helicopter crash), Dave Molyneux who at age 42 was still the man to beat on three wheels. Notables from SuperBike, Biaggi and Checa. Such comparables present the argument, is Rossi physically weaker than these old blokes? I don't think so and I've yet to see the signs which suggest otherwise. Rocket in England | ||
| Jaimec |
Nobody (other than maybe X1125R or Vagelis46) would question Rossi's ability. It's just that the three Spaniards ahead of him are currently at a whole 'nother level. I also think Vale is a little rusty from two years of riding pure crap. With luck, things will be better for him in 2014. | ||
| Trojan |
No rider is a swiss watch Lorenzo is more like a digital watch (He doesn't need winding up!). If all of other Yamaha riders are in awe of his skills, and Rossi has admitted that Lorenzo is faster than him, then I would tend to go with that argument. Age is relative and physically Rossi is still relatively young, although he doesn't train anywhere near as hard as some other riders. I know that I don't bounce as well as I did when I was 25, and I'm sure he has aches and pains after every race now that weren't there in his teens! Mentally I really don't think he appears to be as tough as he was before he broke his leg, but I may be wrong on that score. He certainly seems to be enjopying his racing as much as ever, and so long as that continues good luck to him  | ||
| Gaesati |
When Lorenzo wins it is usually because he pushes his way to the front on the first lap. He then tries for at least a half second gap and voila! A clear track, no one to fight with and his 250 style and metronomic consistency take over even with an inferior bike. If Rossi could break through to the front he could probably do the same. In a dogfight with Bautista, Bradl smith and Crutchlow he will often as not come out on top. However by the time he does that Marques, Pedrosa and Lorenzo are long gone. If Rossi wants to win races again he has to learn to break clear at the start. On another note, Bautista's tyres had disintegrated by the end of 10 laps in practice and that was what finally motivated the ruling about tyres. There were enough bad falls in moto 2 and 3 that I personally saw to justify doing something about the track surface and the tyres. | ||
| Trojan |
There were enough bad falls in moto 2 and 3 that I personally saw to justify doing something about the track surface and the tyres. I don't think the organisers had much choice but to do something about the situation. However, the mere fact that neither Bridgestone nor Dunlop didn't bother to test at the circuit following resurfacing and then only brought tyres that could cope with a limited heat rangeis pretty unforgiveable. Even after the event they offered no apology or explanation as to why they didn't test there. Looking at the state of some tyres after 10 just laps it was amazing anyone lasted that long without a big crash, and was still a very serious safety issue even with the pit stops and shortened races. It was obvious that nobody actually knew how long the tyres would last before falling to pieces, and just guessed that 10 laps would be the maximum distance they would allow. They were just lucky that nobody was injured by a disintegrating tyre after 8 or 9 laps. Personally I think they should have cancelled the event and nullified the points from every class at this round, but of course that would upset paying spectators and TV companies  | ||
| Blake |
Why, why, why doesn't MotoGP go to a two race per venue/event scheme? (Message edited by blake on October 23, 2013) | ||
| Trojan |
Why, why, why doesn't MotoGP go to a two race per venue/event scheme? TV scheduling. Because they have Moto3 and Moto2 to televise as well. They spread the timing so that if there is a hold up or stoppage then the TV schedule ins't too badly affected and is easy to get back on track. With just three races all day that isn't too difficult, but if you had two MotoGp races and there was a long delay in Moto2/3 it could mean TV coverage would be shortened or even mean the meeting run out of daylight at some tracks. WSb has suffered in the past from this where TV coverage of race two has been shortened or cancelled completely because fo hold ups in supporting races. Another main reason is that with increasingly miserly engine and fuel limits, Dorna have backed themselves into a bit of a corner in terms of being able to change format. To allow 2 races would mean having to change the rules in order to give teams a lot more engines. lastly...If Honda wanted to do 2 races then it would probably be made to happen. They don't so it probably won't | ||
| Trojan |
Another good article by Mat Oxley on the debale of Philip Island http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/motogp-race /a-grand-farce-at-phillip-island/ | ||
| Xb1125r |
phillips island was the most exiting race i have seen in a while. there should be a mandatory one stop in all races. so much fun to see the guys switch bikes, miss the lap to go in. lorenzo head bunting his mechanic at the stop. pedrosa almost going over his bike | ||
| Trojan |
phillips island was the most exiting race i have seen in a while. there should be a mandatory one stop in all races. so much fun to see the guys switch bikes, miss the lap to go in. lorenzo head bunting his mechanic at the stop. pedrosa almost going over his bike AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  | ||
| Jaimec |
It WAS an exiting (sic) race, Matt. People were heading to the exits scratching their heads and wondering "WTF did I just watch??" | ||
| Pwnzor |
Would he have won of Marquez was not conveniently black flagged? Marc was closing in on him. | ||
| Jaimec |
This article makes me want to giggle like a little girl... | ||
| Jaimec |
More interesting reading on how next year's rules may play out: http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/817/17274/Motorcycle -Article/MotoGP--When-is-a-CRT-Bike-Not-a-CRT-Bike -.aspx | ||
| Xb1125r |
jaime I guess I am an expert too, since I predicted the CRT would be a joke |
