| Author | Message | ||
     Hughlysses |
Confirmed here and elsewhere: http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/614/17212/Motorcycle -Article/2014-EBR-1190RX-First-Look.aspx Discuss. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Wow! | ||
| M2typhoon |
Mr Geoff May will be as well. Confirmed on a lonely FB post yesterday afternoon. Congrats to Geoff. No one deserves it more than he does. | ||
| Trojan |
Don't they have to build at least 1000 bikes (or whatever the current homologation fugure is) before a WSB manufacturer entry is accepted (or have they already?). They need to get into WSB under the new cost saving EVO rules next year, and before Honda and Ducati arrive with their rumoured mega buck US$150,000 homologation specials (unless DORNA do the right thing and change rules to prevent these ultra expensive low volume bikes becoming fact), as once that happens nobody else will get a look in, including Kawasaki, BMW, Aprilia and all. Honda are apaprently looking at homologating theri proposed new MotoGP RCV based superbike for WSB and Ducati the new Panigale Superleggera, both of which would ride rough shod through the spirit if not the letter of the new rules designed to save money, and make current WSB bikes pretty redundant. .  (Message edited by trojan on October 17, 2013) | ||
| Xb1125r |
congrats to Geoff and EBR. now hopefully SBK will get their act together next year with a tv network. or if we can buy internet package, i would rather watch it now with EBR then motogp. | ||
| Rasta_dog |
 | ||
| Bads1 |
That means he will have a team mate??? Wonder who??? Also who replaces May in AMA?? | ||
| Riohondohank |
Probably will not be an AMA team. | ||
| M2typhoon |
You're right Hank. I would assume there will be teams fielding an EBR in AMA possibly but EBR would be over extended with WSBK and AMA factory teams. I hope Aaron goes with May. I think they are on the same wave legnth as far as riding style is concerned. | ||
| Trojan |
EBR would do well to get a rider who has experience of WSB tracks and paddocks rather than taking an American just for the sake of it. Being a new team in the series will be hard enough, so having a rider who knows the tracks and the system could be very beneficial. Chaz Davies would be a good match  | ||
| Hughlysses |
Here's Geoff's "official" announcement (posted to the EBR sub-forum by Bads1): | ||
| Reepicheep |
Very cool. Geoff is a real professional and a great representative for the company and the country. | ||
| Riohondohank |
Probably would be best to have someone with experience on the WSBK tracks, but I would bet it would be difficult to get Davies to go on a untried bike that is going to require a lot of development before it is competitive. Everyone here should know who I am pulling for but I am not holding my breath. He does have a bit of European experience, be t 10 yrs ago. BTW he never had the proper help with the setup of his suspension this year until the last race and you see what happened. I do know that RSR will not field EBRs next year. It would take a big sponsor to step up for there be a team to field EBR's in the AMA and with the current condition of AMA racing I think that is unlikely. If EBR does not have a presence in AMA they do need some other promotional effort in the US with the coming of the RX and the other models to follow. | ||
| Rasta_dog |
PLEASE let it be Chaz Davies. | ||
| Trojan |
I think the biggest shock that EBR will get will be the sheer size and professionalism of the WSB paddock compared to AMA racing. Some of the bigger teams will have more pure data technicians than the whole EBR crew, and enough transporters to fit the entire EBR factory inside. Having at least some crew accustomed to WSB competition will be vital if they are to make progress. New teams always say that they are treating the first year as a 'learning year' but press and spectators can be very unforgiving. They expect results immdiately or else EBR should at least be beating the slower privateer teams such as Pedercini immediately, and on the back of the semi-factory customer teams if they are to have any impact as a factory team. The new WSB rules 'should' help new teams coming in, but I think they will be up against it with a twin cylinder machine next year against the IL4's (which is the reson KTM never went into WSB with their RC8R). Ducati won't be sitting around over the winter and will probably turn up with a much improved Panigale next season too, with experienced riders on board (Ben Spies & Leon Camier are the latest rumour, although Chaz Davies is in the frame for the factory Ducati ride too. 2015 could see Honda bring their RCV based road bike into the series, which will probably move the goal posts completely for everyone else involved, so 2014 could be the best chance EBR have to make an impression. One thing is for sure though, the pay packet required will have to be pretty large to attract an experienced WSB rider onto an unknown bike and team. Hopefully EBR have their sponsors lined up with cheque books open and at the ready | ||
| Court |
>>>>Some of the bigger teams will have more pure data technicians than the whole EBR crew I'm, frankly, impressed that you know how big the EBR crew is going to be. That's cool . . . and I thought I was tapped into the pipeline. | ||
| Bads1 |
Court, I think you are misunderstanding Matt entirely. | ||
| Reepicheep |
How can you misunderstand somebody claiming that a company that can product the 1190 RX, and a racer like Geoff May, aren't bright enough to do a little basic research about what it takes to go racing in WSB before they announce they are going to go racing in WSB? General people no doubt would be surprised. To say EBR would be surprised is a bit patronizing and reeks of euro elitist snobbery against us poor ignorant colonials. | ||
| Bads1 |
I think you are also Bill. And Geoff is a great racer and has been beneficial to development but is he WSB caliber?? Umm no... maybe back in the pack. We'll have to see as it unfolds as to their entire plans. | ||
| Reepicheep |
EBR didn't say they were going to win it, they said they are going to race it. Matt's post said "...the biggest shock that EBR will get..." If he had said "EBR Fans", or heck, "Bill", instead of "EBR", then I would agree with him 100%. But I'm guessing that EBR, at this point, knows what they want to accomplish racing WSBK, and I bet they have a reasonable back of the napkin estimate on how much it will cost, and I bet that estimate is a pretty good one. | ||
| Bads1 |
Bill like Matt said the media,the race fans and potential buyers want to see immediate results in which they did ok in AMA given the time. Btw I don't think any company says they are going to win it.... they race to achieve it. Nobody said here that they said it either. Like I said we shall see what EBR's intentions will be in the coming months ahead for this level of racing. I'm very interested to see the level of electronics and the changes the bike will go through to race at this level. They will for sure have to have more HP. | ||
| Court |
EBR will make an impressive appearance and much better than many people would ever imagine. They have, at their disposal and on their payroll, some of the most seasoned personnel there are. One of the benefits of having the world's largest manufacture of 2 wheeled vehicles as your partner. Spending $500,000,000 on advertising and promotion a year probably doesn't hurt either. Look at it this way . . . if they decide they need more resources they can buy Ducati (usually for sale every couple years) and Aprillia with about 2 days of revenue. They may not be on the podium the first year but I suspect between Erik Buell's experience as a racer and his steely resolve combined with Pawan's passion and HERO's experience in big time sports (Cricket is much larger than WSBK racing) I'd wager they're not planning on going in underfunded and lacking resources to get bitch slapped. In fact . . to be . . is seems quite apparent that this is an integral part of a much larger plan. But . . hey, it could just be me and I confess I know damn near nothing about racing, I am however, damn good at running businesses, teams and building and carrying out strategic plans. I suspect they are much better. The GREAT news is we don't have to guess what it would be like if EBR were in World Superbike Racing . . . we're gonna know. I was there, as recent as a year ago, when smart folks who know a lot about racing declared it would never be possible. fools be they. | ||
| Jima4media |
I would like to say for the record that I really like the EBR 1190RX, and the price that it came out at. It is half the price of last years model. That said, going into WSBK with that bike is going to be difficult at best. Geoff May is a great racer, but he is going to need a team mate to compete at the World level. Ben Spies? Colin Edwards? Nicky Hayden? Those are racers with MotoGP and WSBK experience and plenty of time on Twins. Remember the Honda RC51 in 2000? It was winning races with 185HP. Now if EBR can get the 1190 race bike up to 220-240HP to compete with the likes of Honda, Yamaha, Aprilia, BMW, and Kawasaki, with an A-list rider, then they can be competitive in World Superbike. Jim | ||
| Mcgiver |
Court's last post, is possibly the best I've seen on this site in years. I was laughing my ass off for five minutes. You are a noble man Court! | ||
| 2kx1 |
I think that that Hero might have an engineer or two that would like to see and learn about what happens at a racetrack. | ||
| Trojan |
euro elitist snobbery against us poor ignorant colonials. That, as we say in Euro Elitist language, is just plain bollocks! I have absolutely no preference for whatever nationality a bike or team may be. Most teams are very international in flavour these days and you'd be pushed to find a purely English, French or Italian team in WSB these days. British, Irish, French, Spanish etc riders race for Spanish teams using Japanese motorcycles and Italian teams racing German bikes, so thinking that nationality comes into it at all is just ridiculous. EBR no doubt have done their homework on WSB and have realistic goals set. However to think that they will land in WSB with no knowledge of tracks and a rider that has not ridden there before, and be immediately competitive is asking a lot. I'm, frankly, impressed that you know how big the EBR crew is going to be. I don't, but I would still wager that it will be nowhere near what Kawasaki and Aprilia turn up with every week. There were probably more Aprilia personnel standing on the pit wall to celebrate Eugene Laverty winning yesterday than employed by EBR in total (OK maybe a slight exageration but you know what I mean). Just because they have a big bankroll from India behind then means very little unfortunately. Lets face it, Hero have no racing knowledge (or engineers with that knowledge as far as I know) or history to help them with, just money. Being a big money sponsor of Cricket (the worlds most boring 'sport') is going to give them absolutely no advantage in bike racing of any description (unless they want a knock about in the paddock of course). What they need is knowledge and experience of WSB. They can get that either by hiring/employing experienced riders/team personnel or by grafting it out for a few seasons to learn the hard way. I hope they do well of course, but I'm not expecting miracles especially in the first season. lastly, the performance of the EBR 1190 in AMA was behind Suzuki and Yamaha. In WSB Suzuki are a long way behind Aprilia, Kawasaki and BMW. EBR will need a significant performance increase to run with the big boys at the front of WSB (as would both Ducati and KTM), even with the new rules coming into play. Honda will eventually get their act together ith the Fireblade or enter the proposed RCV1000 road bike, and Yamaha are rumoured to be re-entering WSB with a new R1 soon. Some tracks may favour the twins but others (the majority) will either favour the 4 cylinder bikes or have no distinct favour either way. This is NOT a criticism of EBR in any way. I am stoked that they are going to WSB and I wish them every success. I am sure that they know what they are doing and have done their homework. It is the readers of this forum that I am aiming my comments at mostly, because I believe the task ahead of EBR in WSb will be a lot harder than some people here seem to think. Wrapping yourself in the stars and stripes and accusing anyone who offers the slightest cricism of being euro elitist snobs isn't going to be much help to the team. | ||
| Blake |
I'm still just shocked by the news. Amazing. The key to success in the sport bike market is meaningful development towards improved performance. Some said the ZTL style front wheel/brake wouldn't work in superbike racing. Continued development has it working very well. The WSBK rules allow more engine modification, so increased engine performance is likely for the EBR entry in that series. But WSBK does handicap twin cylinder machines with added weight, just like AMA Pro racing does. What a shame. | ||
| Trojan |
But WSBK does handicap twin cylinder machines with added weight, just like AMA Pro racing does. WSB rule makers constantly review the weight/intake restrictor handicaps for twin cylinder machines and are able to amend them mid season if required. They use some form of complicated formula to work out when and if the handicap needs to be changed, but it generally simplifies as......If Ducati are winning add weight, if Ducati are losing take off weight. Given the dire performance of the Panigale this year it would not surprise me to see quite a bit of the handicap taken away for next year (preceded by lots of latin arm waving and threats by Ducati to withdraw as usual of course). Any change meant to benefit Ducati would of course help EBR too. I really don't know how the new rules will work out in practice, but judging by the BSB EVo rules that have been in place for a couple of years now, the biggest losers have unfortunately been the twin cylinder bikes and Ducati in particular. WSB rules will of course be different to BSB/AMA so it is anyones guess as to who will be the winners and losers in the rules shakeup yet. Winter testing will probably throw up some dark horses and some blatant odds on favourites though as usual. I think it will be VERY hard for anyone to challenge Kawasaki next year, but apart from them the field could be a lot more level. BMW are now out (privateer teams will continue though with some factory suport), Aprilia have lost their guru, and Honda are all at sea with electronics still. Yamaha may/may not enter the new R1, MV Agusta will be there with their superbike as yet untested in competition, and who knows what Suzuki will do. It will be an interesting season for sure | ||
| Simond |
Great news. I find it hard to believe that EBR would have made this announcement without significant discussions with the FIM about the position next year. I too thought that it would make sense to take a rider with WSB experience but the kind of rider that would go for a new unproven twin cylinder machine would most likely be someone trying to delay his exit from WSB and pick up a big cheque on the way. That or a young hopeful with little experience.... so why not go with a rider with who knows the team and bike? .......after all the first year will be a learning experience for all. I can't wait to see EBR on the grid. | ||
| Bads1 |
Great post Matt and Honest. WSB is a whole other world. As far as Blakes comment on the Brakes?? Your right but also remember they put a scoop on because they were having issues with over heating. Now lets add 30-40 RWP and track setting and see if the brake is still up to the task?? I don't know Im hoping it works but the boost in HP also can offset the brake performance also. |
