| Author | Message | ||
     Bads1 |
Looks like Indy has taken measures to take care of the Motogp riders dislikes and needs. http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/indianapolis-m otor-speedway-revising-infield-road-course-for-ind ycar-and-motogp/#.Uk3Pe0RNo6M.facebook | ||
| Davegess |
Marc needs to figure out that the championship is his to lose and that a big crash that sees him sitting out a race could cost him the title. He is riding like what he is; a fabulous rider who at 21 hasn't figured out that he should not take chances in the position he is in. He wants to win every race. Great fun to watch. Love him. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I'm pretty much in agreement with you there Dave. ps, did you catch my history topic on the QB? Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
But Sean there was the day when electronics were not on the bikes and they were 200 plus HP.... violent and on inferior tires that we have today. They may be wrestling more HP but racing and the bikes are much much more safer then yesteryear. And we have a rookie rider showing the exuberance of youth, perhaps pushing just a little bit too hard. Let's not forget. His riding last weekend cost him another mistake which he recovered from quickly. Blame it on Honda for not having a back up sensor or not, after all it's likely a freak incident to snap a wire in a minor touch type collision, but the fact remains, Marquez's over exuberance has cost Pedrosa any chance of a title. Some slender chance all be it. But not so slender had Pedrosa garnered 20 points. A DNF from Marquez in one or more of the next four rounds would have put Perdosa right back in it. There's not a chance of that happening now regardless. Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
The problem with the view that 'you are riding too close to another rider' is that there is no objective measurement of what is a 'safe' gap. if you are going to set up an overtake on a bike that is identical to your own (possibly with a lighter rider on board) then you need to be as close as you can possibly get to have any chance at all of pulling it off. If you legislate against this then instead of racing we will have a boring convoy of bikes that can never quite get close enough to overtake, so start and finish in pretty much grid order......Or F1 if you like  Racing has always been close, and it has taken exceptional riders in each generation to make it faster and closer. Now that the machines are electroncially regulated the racing can only get clser because the top machines are just so equal in terms of performance. Marquez should not be penalised in this instance for a racing incident. Honda made the mistake by siting the wire in a place it could be broken and by not having a back up sensor. THAT was the cause of the crash, not the actual contact between the two bikes. On the subject of Marquez riding to preserve his championship lead? I don't think we will see that. he knows only one speed, and that is flat out. In 125 we saw that he didn't need to win the last races to win the series, but that didn't stop him trying. I doubt he will act any differently now. If Honda wanted Pedrosa to win the title they really should have reined in Marquez at the start of the season and told him in no uncertain terms that he was the second tier rider and shoud defer to Dani. They didn't do that so we have to accept that they will race each other for the win, with inevitable consequences occasionally because they are so equal in machinery. Take the gloves off and lets see them race to the end of the year. Pedrosa has said that he can ride dirty too recently. I doubt that he can to be honest, but I'd like to see if he can beat Marquez or Lorenzo by trying. I can't help but think that Dani would come off worse in both encounters. | ||
| Jaimec |
He said that, did he? Refer to the article I linked earlier: http://www.bikeme.tv/index.php/dani-pedrosa-motogp s-biggest-parasite/ | ||
| Trojan |
I did read hat article, which I thought hardly objective and a bit rich coming from an obviously Aussie supporter of Stoner, who was without any doubt more miserable and unwilling to support either the media or fans during his tenure in MotoGP than Pedrosa has ever been  Pedrosa is quoted as saying regarding the 'incident' : "The ones who have been warning about this over the years, like Jorge (Lorenzo) or me, also know how to race over the limit, and everything is fine." If that isn't a threat to race dirty I don't know what is. However Pedrosa has always come off a poor second in fairing bashing battles in the past (except against Lorenzo in one race this year - Brno?) and I don't excpect Marquez to lose any sleep over threats from Dani. he is probably far more worried about being stabbed in the back in a dark alley by Alberto Puig! | ||
| Jaimec |
I do have to laugh at the irony. When Pedrosa took out Hayden in 2006, Nicky was LEADING the title fight. Pedrosa, who although mathematically still capable of winning the title, realistically had NO shot at all. Yet Spooge was happy to point out it was "good" because Dani was fighting for the title and Nicky was "too slow" in the turn. In this case, Pedrosa was in the same situation (mathematically possible, but realistically no shot at all) but it was Marquez who just brushed by him. I'm betting Dani never even felt any kind of an "impact." Yet Spooge and Pedrosa are all over Marquez for riding dangerously?? How about lambasting Honda for such a poor design in their traction control system?? Karma. She's a BITCH, isn't she?  | ||
| Bads1 |
And we have a rookie rider showing the exuberance of youth, perhaps pushing just a little bit too hard THe same could be said in 1978 about Rookie name Kenny Roberts | ||
| Davegess |
Rocket, I did. I have yet to study it in detail but i plan to print it out and add it to the archives. I get to see both RW750 race bikes every day so the story really hit home. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Pleased about that Dave. I hope when you read it there's something 'new' for you. I'd like to know who the Yorkshire Ferret is. Coincidentally, a friend told me just this week he knows of a Sparton in my home town. Will let you know more if I find.... On topic. Well I don't know as I'm arguing about anything other than the cause of the wire snap. There's no point criticising Marquez as he is what he is. A phenomenon! I wouldn't however have objected to some punishment for that incident as it would have opened up the championship possibly. I'd have no problem seeing such as fair as Marquez has had some race win advantages bestowed upon him this season due to Pedrosa and Lorenzo injuries, in which case had they have raced the hunt would be likely wide (ok wider) open right now. And yes I get the argument it's Honda's fault and I understand Honda and the team order scenario, but that would not have been a concern at season start. A point in argument supported by the points deficit between the two Honda riders helped by Pedrosa's race misses. But the reality is, Marquez would still be out in front as he is now so what's the point. Hail Marquez the marauder. The new Caesar of Moto GP! Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
Gino Rea gets a decent break at last  http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/gino-rea-to-ri de-for-agr-moto2-team-at-sepang-motegi-and-phillip -island/ Hope he grabs it with both hands and lands a decent team for next year. He certainly deserves it. | ||
| Bads1 |
Rumor is Nicky may announce his direction after this race. By what I'm reading it sound like he'll be on a Customer Honda and Honda US is helping to back him. | ||
| Trojan |
By what I'm reading it sound like he'll be on a Customer Honda and Honda US is helping to back him. Therre seem to be two equally strong runmopurs around regarding Nicky, although both are with the same team. Aspar were supposed to be 100% dedicated to the Aprilia ART prject for next year and were rumoured to have Hayden and Eugen Laverty on board 'factory' Aprilia bikes (although running as non factory to get the better fuel limit of course). However, the latest rumour of Honda power comes as a result of the other hot rumour, that Gigi Dall'Igna will move from Aprilia to Ducati. if that happens then the Aprilia option looks less attractive to Aspar. Add to this Honda's inability to sell their privateer 'production' GP bike to enough teams (Only Gresini and Cardion are currently comitted to buying these), and the alleged last minute bargain price being offered to Aspar to run these bikes, and the ART deal starts to look shaky. US Honda had apparently given up on finding enough cash to finance Hayden on a production Honda, but if HRC are offering Aspar a cut price deal they could just be able to do it. Personally I think they would be much better off staying as the lead team with the ART project, which has proved to be very competitive already. Aprilia would pay the riders and provide factory mechanics, so it is amuch better deal than production Hondas running as yet untried software. One thing is for sure, the production Honda will certainly not be allowed to be quicker than either the Repsol bikes or the gresini/LCR prototypes, so that leaves them very much as a third string Honda. Surely better to have the first string Aprilia? The last brick in the wall of course is sponsorship money. Aspar have just lost their title sponsor, so maybe a combination of cheap Hondas and US Honda money will be the deciding factor, although where they find the money to run a second rider is anyones guess. I'm sure we will find out more this weekend...... | ||
| Trojan |
It is confirmed.......Gigi Dall'Igna will be moving from Aprilia to Ducati for next year, replacing Bernard Gobmeier who returns to germany to work at VW. http://www.motomatters.com/press_release/2013/10/1 0/ducati_press_release_gigi_dall_igna_to_r.html Implications are huge becaue it has a bearing on the choice of machines used by Aspar in MotoGP as well as the Ducati and Aprilia WSB projects. It will be very interesting to see what happens to the Aprilia ART MotoGP bike now too, as it looks like at least some teams currently planning on using it next year will now move to the Honda production bike. PBM could benefit by becoming the lead ART team and working directly with the Aprilia factory if Aspar jumps ship, which would benefit Alex Lowes (if rumours are true of course) & Michael Laverty next year hopefully. | ||
| Jaimec |
Wow! That's HUGE. Just saw this myself at Asphalt & Rubber but you beat me to it, Matt! | ||
| Jaimec |
So they've decided to penalize Marquez after all. WTF?? If Honda didn't have such a LOUSY traction control design, no one would've even known there WAS an incident other than Marquez running off the track in order to avoid hitting his team mate. That is a lot better judgment shown on Marquez part than his team mate exhibited in 2006 and he didn't get dinged at all. Talk about the "Teflon Rider!" But the GOOD news is, Honda got dinged even harder for their stupid design. SOME "karma" any way. | ||
| Trojan |
I think the penalty against Marquez was just a very gentle reminder and not even a penalty really given only a few rounds left. Would he suffer from a back of the grid penalty? probably not. I must admit I liked Lorenzo's comment at the press conference.... Lorenzo added a touch of irony to proceedings with his view on Marquez’s penalty point: “The Jerez action was a great show, and Silverstone, and Laguna when he passed Valentino outside of the track was a great show, so I think they should encourage that type of action to make an example to the young riders…I think they are wrong (about the one penalty point). They have too many penalties. They should have given him one more point in the championship!” The penalty against Honda is much more sensible and about time. I'm surprised they didn't go further on what clearly a safety issue and take away ALL manufacturer points from Aragon. Taking away 25 and then giving 14 back (for Bautistas finish in 4th) isn't really much punishment | ||
| Jaimec |
Now that I think about it, you're right. It's not like Bautista's bike had a safer traction control system, after all. They ALL have the same stupid design. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Rocket said.... But let's be truthful here. The wire snapping on Pedrosa's bike only happened, not because Marquez was fairing bashing, but because he went in way to hot and had to go around the outside to avoid taking Pedrosa out. In doing so he 'brushed' I think was the word they used in MCN, Pedrosa's bike. In my book that is clearly Marquez riding too wild, which is not the same as aggressive fairing bashing. in this instance it wasn't a case of him braking late or missing a braking point. He overcooked it big time. I love hard racing and fairing bashing, but this incident that corner, Marquez is showing some impatience and a willingness to take a chance where he didn't really need to. He was likely afraid Lorenzo would run away again. He needed to calm it down and not rush it through those first laps, and use the great racing head he's been gifted with 100% of the time. He will be the complete package, just like Rossi! What's his rush knowing what he already knows..... as spectators we have come to enjoy his seemingly heroic antics wrestling a 250bhp GP motorcycle around a track nothing like what we've been use to seeing before during this current era of bike, so we are captivated and forgiving. In that viewing enjoyment though is a mask. A mask which we all know is covering (forgiving) a somewhat risky approach to Marquez's riding. He takes no prisoners and shows little to no regard for other riders (yet) in his quest to win. Right now he's a little like that line in Top Gun which Iceman delivers to Maverick which I can't quote word for word but it goes something like "yes you are good, but right now you're dangerous". Perhaps this explains what I too were getting at. To quote Mike Webb, Race Director in this weeks MCN... "It is quite obvious to us looking down the list of incidents the name Marquez crops up a number of times. Marc is supremely talented and very brave. But he is extremely close to the limit and because of that we have had some heart-in-the-mouth moments throughout the year and this time it has resulted in contact, albeit very light contact. Contact like that in a Moto2 race would have gone unnoticed and in fact it did between (Scott) Redding and (Pol) Espargaro. But there is some precedent in this because we have warned Marc about how close he is to other riders. We want to make sure these things don't happen to other riders. We want to make sure these things don't continue to happen. It was seen as a racing incident but it could quite possibly be worthy of a warning because we have seen the same sort of things happen before. If that was the first time Marc had contact with any rider it would have been declared a racing incident and we would have left it at that." "There is no doubt that he has the talent and intelligence to know exactly what he was doing in exploring the limits. But I would prefer his finding the limits never involved contact with another rider or even a crash by himself. I'd rather he took it on board a bit quicker but having spoke to him several times he is very aware of what he is doing on a motorcycle. And clearly he recalls what he is doing and he offers a logical explanation for why he is that close at a particular time. It is not like he is an out-of-control lunatic. He is exploring the limits but he needs to respect the space around him a little more." For me this leaves only one question unanswered. Are other riders capable of riding similar to Marquez (and they choose not to)? Of course, there's likely only four bikes on the grid that we could see such riding applied upon that would make such a style worthwhile, currently, perhaps. Maybe not. Rocket in England | ||
| Jaimec |
On the BadWeather Biker's board, they have a poll regarding the incident. There are a lot of votes for "I'd pay $21 for the onboard camera view of Marquez starting from the last row..." Lorenzo may have a point. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Starting on the back row will hardly hinder Marquez for a high points finish. We've seen it often enough in MotoGP to know it's a farce in this particular case if all it serves to do is prevent the winning of the top trophy and another notch for the history books. Other than that it won't open up the title challenge nor hinder Marquez winning the title seeing as he's already got both hands on the top trophy anyway. Had they have said start from the back row for the remaining races, now that might have made the young marauder sit-up and pay attention to his slapped wrist. As it is he's likely thinking he's going to dazzle us with more heroics just to piss off the punishers and those enforcing the rules, and he'll probably try to win it anyway in the very style we've come to enjoy him for. The same style he's at the back for then. That'd be sideways, sliding, and somewhat recklessly in control. Rocket in England | ||
| Simond |
As above, the Marquez/Pedrosa incident (and the Pedrosa/Hayden one for that matter) was a racing incident. Bloody silly and an example of a young rider pushing too hard at the wrong time but nevertheless a racing incident. However, two of the scariest incidents in recent years involved Marquez. Firstly when he crashed into Wilairot at full chat after the end of a practice session at Philp Island giving him serious and arguably career ending injuries and secondly the practice crash under yellow flags when he came close to taking out Crutchlow and a group of marshals. Neither of these were sufficiently punished. The daft thing is that Danny Rivas was given a two race ban for a causing a collision while not looking where he was going on the cooling down lap after a practice session at Silverstone this year. The penalty for Honda is just plain silly. What about all those exposed brake lines coming out of the front of every fairing. One day they could clipped by a handlebar..........what about all those hot exhausts someone might burn themselves in a close manoeuvre one day..... | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I believe if you read the comment I posted from Mike Webb, isn't he saying the incidents you mention and not so much the Pedrosa one, are indeed why they are punishing (are they?) Marquez this next race. That's how I read it anyway. In which case the punishment doesn't really fit the crime. Not in the sense it will have Marquez reflecting on his so called wrong way of racing. All I see is it being a token gesture from race direction to cover their own raison d'etre rather than it saying or doing anything to Marquez, which is rather sad (and a weak conclusion) when Mike Webb appears to talk a lot of sense regarding Marquez's alleged lack of caution. Given it's his rookie year, and he's been gifted some easier wins (taking nothing away from his obvious talent) race direction could have deducted points and given him back row starts for the remaining races. If they were really smart they could have made the punishment fit the points tally in such a way his points advantage were reduced enough to make him fight to win the title he's already running away with. That would have been racing. Would have been spectacular for all to see. Would have been controversial. As it is now it's a one race spectacle that Marquez will control. He'll either try to win it and laugh in their faces as he continues with his usual approach to racing. Or he'll cruise round midfield in a boring manner as if to say "is this what you prefer of me?" I mean, why would he comply. He's young dumb and full of racing cum! Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
Are other riders capable of riding similar to Marquez (and they choose not to)? If you get a chance to watch any of the mid pack battles in Moto3 and Moto2 you'd see that Marquez has actually matured and rides a lot more sensibly than they do. As David Emmet so eruditely points out on his Motomatters web site, if they want to set an example to younger riders they should start by punishing them at the time for dangerous riding, not waiting until they get to MotoGP. Lorenzo was as dangerous, if not more, during his 250 days and early MotoGP races, as were a number of other riders. It is easy for him now to criticise young riders but he needs to remember what he was like at their age and experience levels. The penalty for Honda is just plain silly. What about all those exposed brake lines coming out of the front of every fairing. One day they could clipped by a handlebar..........what about all those hot exhausts someone might burn themselves in a close manoeuvre one day..... I think the big difference here is that the sensor cablewasn't the main issue. The big issue was what happened in the event of a cable failure/breakage. Honda had failed to set their electronics so that they defaulted to 'safe' mode in the event of damage. Instead they relied on a small dashboard light to tell the rider that his TC was suddenly and unexpectedly switched off, with no electronics aids available and the bike in constant full power mode. That would be OK if the cable broke while the rider was going in a nice straight line with time to see the light and make adjustments to his riding. However, it is almost inevitable that the cable would only break mid corner following contact, and as we saw last week the rider was in no position to see the light let alone change his riding in the time available. Honda deserved the lions share of the punishment in this instance and really should have lost more points than they did. I agree that marquez should probably have been punished harder for his crash with Willairot (+ other close calls in Moto2 with Pol Espagaro and others) and also for Silverstone. However they didn't, and cannot be expected to increase punishment now for errors already dealt with. The irony to me is that if you start Marquez (or any top rider) from the back of the grid you are actually creating the situation for more crashes, aas they will have to overtake a lot of slower riders in the first few laps. This will lead to more risks and potentially more crashes. Just look what happened last year when Dani had to start at the back? He lasted less than a full lap before being punted off by Barbera, a rider he would normally never see during a race. | ||
| Jaimec |
Hence the popularity of the "I'd pay $21 to watch the onboard footage of Marquez starting from the back row" choice in the Superbike Planet poll... | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Matt, if I didn't know better I'd say you're in danger of becoming a Marquez fanboy I really get where Mike Webb is coming from. I say so because I can see what he is saying about Marquez. We all can! Lorenzo did not ride in such a style it was obvious to see he was close to the limit every turn, unlike Marquez who does. What I'd like to know, is Marquez doing something other riders could do if they chose to as this is indirectly what Webb's comment would suggest. In other words, they are not as close to the limit in their riding / racing as Marquez appears to be. Rocket in England | ||
| Gaesati |
Simoncelli and his riding style is still the elephant in the room. Race direction knows this and should be working harder to impose sufficient discipline on riders. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Bautista's at it too! https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1020208686140 2509 Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Simoncelli and his riding style is still the elephant in the room. Race direction knows this and should be working harder to impose sufficient discipline on riders. It's an interesting observation as no doubt there are similarities to draw from between Simoncelli and Marquez's riding styles, though I wonder how Simoncelli would be today against Marquez given he'd be three seasons in in MotoGP, and perhaps 'tamer' for it. We should see perhaps more than a glimpse of where this riding style of Marquez's goes next season when the current Moto2 boys come up to play! Will controlled chaos be the new beginning? Rocket in England |
