| Author | Message | ||
     Lynrd |
Sunday, I had Veronica (1998 S3T) out for a while. Nothing major, glamorous, or even fun other then the ability to throw a leg over a classic American sportbike and bomb around town to run errands. Got home, parked her out by the curb, went about my business. Well, I forgot to shut off my gas... A few hours later, I was back out front, went to move her back into the garage and found the gas on, along with the typical small puddle underneath (I have forgot to turn the gas off before, but I swear, this is the last time...Read on...) I go to start he back up, and she won't start. In fact, she makes a nasty noise like the starter clutch has completely crapped the bed. No time to check it out at that point of the day, so I push her into the garage and leave her sit. Last night, I reviewed the service manual, and following the troubleshooting steps led me down to "Inspect clutch ring gear and starter pinion, replace as necessary". I pull the primary, look in, nothing is obviously phuqed up. I operate the starter, and it's exactly like the engine just won't turn. I grab the requisite socket and breaker bar, try it on the compensator nut, and yep, the engine is locked up hard. Hmmmm. Now "Hydro-locked" is rattling around in this thing that I use for a brain sometimes, so, next step, I decide to pull the plugs to relieve compression and see if she will turn over then...I pull just the rear plug, grab the breaker bar again, give her a spin....and catch about a cup of gasoline right in the face. A beautiful stream, exactly the diameter of the spark plug hole, just shot out of that spark plug hole and nailed me square in the puss. Of course, immediate reaction is one of, shall we say, consternation. I did not catch any in my eyes, but I now had my eyes screwed shut and the corners of the sockets are burning from the gas. I try to think of how to get to the rag pile, then realize I am wearing a rag - whip off my shirt, wipe my face, boogie inside, wash face with lots of soap and water, jump in the shower, rinse, repeat (literally). After the ordeal...I went out and turned the engine again (this time obviously a bit gingerly) and got the rest out. How I figure it now, the angle the bike was parked at, and the exact position of the engine must have had the intake valve open, the piston near the bottom, and when I executed dumb ass manuever #53978 (leaving the petcock open) I allowed the cylinder bore to fill up with completely uncompressable liquid. I was paid back when Veronica spit it back in my face. I think now I will give her a oil and fluid change, along with new shifter seal and quad ring, to try to make it up to her. | ||
| Doz |
Might want to mist the cylinders with oil before firing it up, just a thought since everything has just been washed (too) clean inside. | ||
| Lynrd |
Good call, and I will. If anything, at least I know the rings are pretty well seated.... | ||
| Ratbuell |
And fix your float needle adjustment. You should be able to leave the fuel valve open 24/7 without that happening - the float pushes up on a needle which fits in a seat. When the needle is in the seat, the fuel cannot enter the bowl. Run the engine, it consumes fuel out of the bowl, the float drops, the needle drops out of the seat, and the fuel flows as needed. If your float setting is incorrect, it doesn't push the needle into the seat properly. Could also be dirt in the fuel so check the bowl for debris while you have it off. | ||
| Steveford |
Good thing you weren't smoking, that would have been the end. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Crap gasoline these days just puts cigarettes out. Might as well be a bucket of water. If it was somehow atomized? Different story. But liquid fuel on tobacco embers? Puts 'em out. | ||
| Harleyelf |
Remember the scene in "Simon & Simon" where Rick says gasoline puts cigarettes out and then drops one into a tray of gas? Burnt their office right up. Gas vapors, even of modern gas, are inflammable at room temperature. I'd change the oil in case the rings are not quite perfectly seated. See if you can light the dipstick with a match. | ||
| Ratbuell |
yes...because TV f/x are always realistic... And you will note I said "LIQUID fuel". I also said "atomized fuel would be different". Fuel has to sit, undisturbed, in a still environment for a long time to accumulate enough vapor to be dangerous. A beautiful stream, exactly the diameter of the spark plug hole, just shot out of that spark plug hole and nailed me square in the puss. Doesn't sound atomized to me. And *as* it shoots out of the head, it hasn't accumulated vapor enough to become a combustible environment. Just smell the dipstick, that will be enough to tell you if there is fuel in the oil. | ||
| Harleyelf |
You are entirely correct. The danger would be of dropping the cigarette into the puddle on the ground. And even that would have to be in the sun with no wind. But smoking while working on something that smells of gasoline is dumb. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Better change the oil too. Probably about a quart of oil under the piston. Probably breather will puke most of it into your clean air filter. Seriously, dump some oil in those plug holes. It's going to be metal on metal otherwise. | ||
| Lynrd |
Well, while you guys were all posting that I should change the oil...I was out changing the oil - or, at least draining the oil/gas mix that I had. Yes, there was gas in the oil, quite a bit of it in fact. I imagine the scavenge side pumped it into the tank after I got the engine spinning. I left her drained tonight, with all ports open (timing plug, derby, inspection, and spark plugs), and some engine assembly mix oil in the cylinders. Tomorrow I will button her up and re-fill her. Once I get her running/riding, I actually plan on just bringing her to operating temperature, then draining the engine oil again and refilling her with fresh oil, and changing filter at that point. The one place that didn't seem to get nailed in this fiasco is the air cleaner...She has XB valve covers with PCV valves going into a catch can....oh, shit...I almost forgot about that! Yep, I need to drain that catch tank, too...glad we had this talk...gotta go back to the garage now..  | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Good grief. That's like $10 of gas! | ||
| Lynrd |
So, tonight's update. As planned, I put her back together, filled engine and tranny oil, re-oiled the cylinders, and gave her a few spins with the starter motor while the plugs were out, to get the oil circulated through the bearings and back to the pump. She blew a bit of gas out of the exhaust but no unexpected noises. Once I saw oil returning to the tank, I put the plugs back in and started her up. Wow, what a mess. Gas sprays from the exhaust (Remember what you were saying about "Atomized...no, I wasn't smoking....) and she struggled to start. She get's going, just smoking like a fog machine out the exhaust. Kind of like what you see when you do the Sea-Foam trip on your car. I guess this was the same thing, but more... While I obscure the neighborhood streetlights with my Troy built smoke machine, she starts to smooth out. I let he come up to temperature - shes spitting less gas out the exhaust now. Then she dies. Out of gas. Now I know - she had to have had almost two gallons of gas run through the engine or out on the ground. I think the engine was absolutely full. Wow. I shut her down, drain off the oil - It's thin like gas and smells of gas. Pull the filter the same thing - it's Gas in there. Put on new filter, pour in the new oil, wipe down everything for the 55th time...fire her up. She starts up ..but now - Oh My God - she has a ticking in the valve train. I let her idle without blipping the throttle, because it sort of sounds like a flat lifter and if so, it needs to pump up. Right on time, it did, and now she's idling nicely. A this point, I need to wash and detail her as well as about everything else in the garage from the oil and gas sprayed all over the place, but I think she survived. I plan on changing the oil again in 500 miles, and just treating this whole incident just like I am breaking in a new engine. | ||
| Harleyelf |
The ticking is just your recently-cleaned lifters pumping themselves out of gasoline and full once again of oil. It's a small enough quantity that you can evaporate it out of the oil with one good ride. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Wow. Think of how clean the inside of that engine must be now  | ||
| Lynrd |
Yep - that's why the "New engine" approach. I had a friend who did this same thing to his shovel head and ultimately wrecked the bottom end (the rod bearings skated and he ended up having to rebuild). When I realized what I had done, I have tried, and intend to continue to be, as cautious as I can in getting clean oil back in all the nooks and crannies. So, now i'll treat it like a second break in, and then put it behind me. All of this is in keeping with my general policy of learning other peoples mistakes and avoiding them, so I can go on to bigger and more innovative mistakes on my own. (Message edited by Lynrd on October 04, 2013) | ||
| Airbozo |
Let me know if you want to meet for a break-in ride this weekend... I have to clean the mess up from the wind storms and then need an attitude adjustment... | ||
| Skntpig |
I wouldn't wait 500 miles to change the oil again. The new oil is probably diluted a good amount. I would go 50 and change again. You would be surprised how dirty 50 mile old oil is in a new motor. |
