| Author | Message | ||
     Tipsymcstagger |
2008 Ulysses - Long story short: almost a year ago, while repositioning the bike from NYC to FL for winter, my Signal Dynamics voltage monitor starting going though a litany of indications with only about 45 minutes remaining until destination. I think (I don't recall 100%) that the Signal Dynamics LED indication ultimately went blank (no illumination at all). I made it home and have made excuses for nearly a year to avoid troubleshooting. I've finally got the garage cleaned up found the motivation to get things sorted. After a year of sitting, my AGM battery was at 3 volts and would not take a charge. I just bought a new East Penn (Deka) AGM, which is at 13.4v resting (normal). I started the bike and it's showing a pretty constant 15.2v at idle, with an intermittent 15.3v if I raise the RPM. The Signal Dynamics LED is inop. My thinking is that 15.3v is way too high and (1) my regulator is bad and (2) the high voltage might have fried the Signal Dynamics monitor (even though Signal Dynamics indicates 17v is the high range of the monitor). I have my service manual but most of the electrical system stuff references the Electrical Diagnostic Manual, which I do not have. What voltage should I be seeing at idle? If 15.2v is in fact too high and the regulator is indeed bad, what is the part number for the 2008 regulator/rectifier? My parts manual, unfortunately, is in NYC at the moment. Thanks guys. Tipsy (Message edited by tipsymcstagger on September 07, 2013) | ||
| Uly_man |
"AGM, which is at 13.4v resting (normal)". That is about right. "showing a pretty constant 15.2v at idle, with an intermittent 15.3v if I raise the RPM". That is not right. It is over charging. "What voltage should I be seeing at idle?" 13.5 to 14.5 V depending on the load/battery condition. (Message edited by uly_man on September 07, 2013) | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
That's what I was thinking. I've been searching the archives but I can't find a definitive part number for the '08 regulator/rectifier. I know it's a different part number than the earlier models. I'd like to try to find one locally before I order one online. Tipsy | ||
| Uly_man |
Maybe Ratbuell or Froggy could help you. | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
Just found the voltage specs in the service manual (Page 7.1). Definitely overcharging. Should be at 14.3 - 14.7 VDC @ 3600 RPM. I believe Y1302.02A8 is the correct part number for the 2008+ regulator/rectifier. Can anyone verify? TIA. Tipsy (Message edited by tipsymcstagger on September 07, 2013) | ||
| Hughlysses |
Tipsy- my 08 parts book shows the V/R part number as Y0302.5A8. | ||
| Yamafreak |
Good luck finding one.You might have to go after market. | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
Seminole HD in Sanford, FL said they have four in stock. But it's 4+ hours round trip and $162...plus about $60 in gas. So I ordered one from American Sportbike (for $121 + $15 shipping). The site didn't say anything about the part being unavailable. Hopefully, it'll be on its way Monday. Tipsy | ||
| Yamafreak |
That's great news. When mine when it was back ordered and no one had any in stock, | ||
| Mad_doctor |
How many miles on the clock? Was there a burnt smell anywhere? My 08 has done the same thing, only at first start. shut it down, restart no problem. I was thinking it may have been a faulty ground. I'm at 20,000 miles,(now you have me thinking)...I have never smelled anything burnt, that is why I have not been concerned. | ||
| Tootal |
Test the stator or open the primary chain window and take a whiff! A bad stator will wipe out your new VR. | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
I guess I spoke too soon. Al just emailed to let me know they're out of stock for another two weeks. Oh well. I've only waited year to get this squared away. I guess I can wait a little longer  Just under 30K. No burnt smell. I'll be sure to check. Thanks. Tipsy | ||
| Reepicheep |
We have been struggling for a while to explain why a bad stator can kill a VR. There seems to be plenty of anectdotal evidence for it (it happened to me), but from a physics standpoint, it makes no sense. I have a theory... Jump starting a bike from a running car *can* kill a VR... those physics are simple. And when would you jump start a bike from a running car? When your stator is dead, to get home, or to get one more ride out of it. Just a thought. It's fine to jump start the bike if you must, but do it from a car or bike with a motor not running. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I have a theory... Jump starting a bike from a running car *can* kill a VR... those physics are simple. Reepi- I can conceive of how that might happen, but could you please lay out the physics so we're all on the same page? In the case of failed VRs AND stators, is it possible the VR fails first and that causes the stator to fail shortly afterward? | ||
| Yamafreak |
My VR stopped working and my stator tested great. The rubber on the back side of my VR was badly cracked . | ||
| Yamafreak |
ps. 08XT 15000 miles Racing Red | ||
| Ratbuell |
I think stators are killed by a combination of cascade-effects. Bad (undetected) connections. Bad (undetected) VR's. Poor jumpstart techniques. Mechanical / construction defects within the stator windings. The stator is...well...static. It doesn't move. Magnets spin around it, and it makes electricity. I think the problems start downstream, where there are electronic components (VR) and moving/user-interfaced parts (connectors). Once those downstream problems are there long enough, the issue can backfeed to the magnetic/electronic field and into the stator itself. To Tipsy - a 45 minute ride shouldn't have killed your stator. I rode on a dying 77 connector for about as long, probably...what...five or six years ago. Replaced the 77, no other issues until my VR failed just this summer. Search the archives, I documented the Shindengan VR install on my 06. The same unit I used, can also be used on your 08 - it will work on single or three-phase electrics, and according to my Kuryakyn LED display AND my Fluke meter...output is rock-solid. Still the original stator (and battery). | ||
| Reepicheep |
The Buell stator is a permenant magnet setup. Which means that the amount of power it can generate will top out at a particular value no matter what (related to the strength of the magnets). So the maximum "whack" you can give a voltage regulator is limited, and you can design the VR to handle it. But a car alternator is different... it uses the alternator itself (and the battery) to generate the magnetic field (instead of permanent magnets). This is bad in that you have to have a battery working to boot strap the whole process (the alternator can't make electricity unless it has electricity). But it is good in that you can make that magnetic field as strong as you want and get more power out of a smaller package. The average small car alternator will put out far more power than our Buell stators can put out. So if you hook a running car to a Buell, the car alternator "senses" the voltage drop, and produces a stronger magnetic field which produces more power. But meanwhile, our Buell voltage regulator (a shunt type device that sends extra power to ground) tries to keep dumping that power. Making the alternator on the car work harder and harder. Eventually (not long) the alternator on the car will reach a point where it has overwhelmed the voltage regulator on the bike, and fry it. If the car motor is not running, you are fine, the VR on the bike will just be trying to charge two batteries (which is actually an easier job for a shunt regulator then charging one). | ||
| Tootal |
Since I'm a lot more on the mechanical side of things I'll leave the electronic reasoning to those in the field. All I know is that I was blowing out my headlights. When I put the Fluke on the battery I was seeing 17 volt spikes when I revved it. I replaced the VR and headlights and the lights blew again. That's when I did the Stator test and found it bad. The bike was never jumped as it was getting all kinds of voltage! The 77 connector still looked good when I replaced it with the new style when I installed the first VR.  If you come up with a logical reason I'd love to learn something! | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
I'll check the stator when I get back to FL in a week or two. I have seen your writeup on the Shindengan VR. I considered going that route but I figured I'd stay plug-n-play for now. I've gotten nearly 30K miles out of my existing VR, so I can't complain too much. If it fails again, I'll consider the alternatives. Insofar as my Signal Dynamics voltage system monitor, I suppose it's possible that the actual LED has failed, and not the module itself. But I can't think of a simple was to make that determination. Like others, I glued the LED into the instrument cluster and I'm not really in the mood to take the cluster apart at the moment. I think I'm going to buy another Signal Dynamics monitor and splice the new module into the existing LED. Hopefully, it's the module that's faulty and not the LED. Tipsy | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
Just out of curiosity, does anyone have a write-up for a Shindengen install on a '08+? Wondering how the install differs (if at all) from those with pre-'08 charging systems. Tipsy | ||
| Portero72 |
Tipsy- I do not have a write up, but did one recently on my 09-VR and stator. The kit comes complete with all the wiring and videos are available on Jack's website to show you how everything is connected-its pretty simple. The stator is more robust and puts out a few more amps, so consider it an upgrade. It is not a difficult install, just tedious. Both the primary gear and clutch have to come off. Let me know if you have any questions. | ||
| Portero72 |
One more thing-if your bike has 30k and a history of charging gremlins, I would go ahead and replace both VR and stator. Save yourself the hassle of any more messing with it. | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
Other than this failure, I've had no problems. I've got a stock replacement on order from Al. I'll check the stator when I'm back in FL but at this time, I have no reason to believe it's suspect. I know Jack suggests wiring the Shindengen direct to the battery, but is this really necessary? Basically, I'm wondering why I couldn't just find a set of OEM connectors (or cut/splice the connectors from my bad OEM regulator) and make the Shindengen plug and play (if I'd decided to go the Shindengen route)? Tipsy (Message edited by tipsymcstagger on September 13, 2013) | ||
| Portero72 |
When mine went out, I did the sniff test and smelled nothing unusual, but decided to upgrade anyway, since my bike had 54k on it. Upon removal of the primary gear, I found two of the windings coated in crusty badness, and two more approaching that. Yours seems to have been overcharging, whereas mine was undercharging, so the stator may be fine. I just found it easier to do it all instead of troubleshooting it for days. That, and I have minimal electrical expertise. The Shindengen unit is a two wire, whereas the stock is a three wire. Smarter people than I could tell you how to work around that issue. As far as the re-wiring, its just safer to go direct, that way you KNOW there are no suspect crimps, worn wires, etc. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I figured I'd stay plug-n-play for now The way I look at it...the Shindengen is now plug-and-play for future years to come. It's OEM on many bikes and I have no doubt it will be an available part for years and years, unlike the proprietary HD/Buell unit. Now that my bike and brackets are modified, if this one goes...I just get another one and plug it in. | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
Both my replacement regulator and replacement voltage monitor should be here Monday. I'm stoked to finally do some riding! Tipsy | ||
| Verdad |
Tipsy - Sorry to hear about the issues. I can sympathize. Just replaced my regulator about an hour ago. Relatively easy, except for my sausage hands dorking with the zipties behind the scoop. Other than that no other real issues. Hope it goes well. Cheers! | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
Well, the plot thickens. I replaced the regulator/retifier with with a factory unit, started the bike and got a nice 14v reading. Problem solved (seemingly). Next was to replace the Signal Dynamics voltage monitor. Apparently, I epoxied the LED into the instrument panel when I did the initial installation. I wasn't 100% sure whether the Signal Dynamics module had failed or whether the just the LED had failed (the LED has been dark since my initial problem). And since I'd epoxied the LED into the instrument panel, I figured I'd cut the wires to the LED and install the new monitor, spliced into the old LED. After doing so and putting power on the bike, there was no indication on the LED. Hmmmm...was it the LED that was bad after all? So I quickly spliced in the new LED onto the new Signal Dynamics monitor and put power on the bike. No indication on the LED. So now I got to thinking...am I even getting power to the Signal Dynamics? I put a volt meter on the two leads and lo and behold, no power. A quick look in the fuse box and I find the accessory fuse blown. I replaced the accessory fuse and put power on the bike. An quick flash of green on the original LED in the instrument panel immediately followed by another blown fuse. So, I have a short somewhere. I can't even recall what circuit I tapped into to power the Signal Dynamics (obviously, it's on the accessory circuit). And now in retrospect, it seems my original Signal Dynamics was probably fine all along. There's no question my regulator/rectifier was bad. But is it just coincidence that I developed a short seemingly at the same time? Or is it the short that caused the RR to fail in the first place? I can't even begin to think about how I'm going to track this down. Tipsy | ||
| Froggy |
I believe so. Regarding tracking it down, the only things stock on the accessory line on your 08 (if my memory is correct) is the heated grips and the two power outlets (one on dash, one under seat). I would personally disconnect all of them, then figure out where your voltmeter is tied in (I assume the dash power outlet). Reconnect everything one at a time and then check to see if the fuse is still good, and check the wiring to make sure it didn't vibrate and rub through anywhere. The parking light in the headlamp assembly, I can't recall if it is on Accessory or Aux fuse on 08+ bikes. |
