| Author | Message | ||
     Ncscuba |
Hi everyone, Im new to this website. Ive recently moved to north carolina and am trying to sell my bike I left back in Ca with my parents. The Buells have taken a hold of me and Ive been searching and reading up on the xb12 lightnings. Ive found a good potential bike on craigslist. The owner states 13k miles with K&N air filter and drummer exhaust. I asked if he had a tune on it and he said it was on the stock ECM. He is the 2nd owner, I dont know how long the intake and exhast have been on together. The owner says it runs great. From what Ive read on here and other sites, this combination, without a tune, will lean out the AFR and eventually cause engine damage. My question is will the engine stay reliable if a tune is put on right away? Thanks, Steve | ||
| Cataract2 |
The ECM will adjust the fueling for the engine. So I wouldn't be to worried about it. The Race ECM will just fuel it to make full use of those items. | ||
| Ncscuba |
Thanks for the reply cateract! I thought the stock ECM could compensate for one or the other... This is what initally concerned me. This comes from buellxb.com from their "buyers guide" sticky : "- Ask, is it tuned? and who tuned it? make sure it's reputable tuner. If it's not tuned and has a K&N and aftermarket muffler, this could be bad in the long run." and this is another passage that mentioned it although it was referencing the 1125 engine: "Stock is set pretty lean to meet EPA restrictions, adding a free-flow exhaust/intake to it makes it much worse. Eventually you'll start seeing error codes, one is the AFV spread too far apart which means one cylinder is running 25% or more fuel than the other. The stock ecm simply cannot compensate for that drastic of a change in the exhaust system. Once it gets to that point, it's just a matter of how lean is the opposite cylinder, when will it start detonating in the chamber and how long will it last like that before it burns a hole in the top of the piston. Most likely it will run so crappy that you'd notice the loss in performance before you actually do damage, but I've seen it first hand on older bikes. Never seen it on a 1125 yet, but it can certainly happen. It may run on an 1125 for thousands of miles before you'd see or hear anything, but I would recommend getting either a tune or an ecm that's matched to it. " shoud this concern me or is the issue kind of resolved once a proper tune/removal or the mods is done? Thanks for all the insight (Message edited by ncscuba on August 18, 2013) | ||
| D_adams |
Up to a point, this is true. However, it makes GLOBAL adjustments to the fuel, not cell specific. If it's rich where it's in closed loop learning mode, it will lean out everything else by way of the AFV (adaptive fuel value) being adjusted leaner. You didn't specify what year model xb it is, so there is a caveat to that, the later models that use DDFI3 with both front and rear O2 sensors will do as described in that long rambling paragraph that looks vaguely familiar. I'm guessing that you have an older model with just one O2 sensor though. Personally, I'd recommend tuning it properly (add a 2nd O2 sensor & bung with widebands to do it right) or get the ecm for the existing mods. Tuning it with just a single O2 sensor just never really made a whole hell of a lot of sense to me, you'd just be taking a wild a$$ guess as to what the front cylinder is doing and making adjustments all willy-nilly and not actually KNOWING what the results are. Sure, there's guys out there that get damn lucky, but it's still just a guess. | ||
| D_adams |
 I snagged this from Gunter's page just so I didn't lose it. The closed loop learn area is where the adjustments will be based from. If it sees the engine lean here, it will make everything else rich. Closed loop runs off the sensors, open loop is from the map only (as I understand it) and open loop WOT is a somewhat richer version of the main map. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Stock does tend to aim for the lean side due to EPA regs, but the ECM utilizes the O2 sensor to adjust to maps. It will apply the value it comes up with across the entire map range. It will still be on the lean side (EPA), but will keep it within a tolerance range. With just the K&N and pipe it probably is around 5-10% change. The race ECM and/or EBR one will put it more to the mid to rich range. That will make the bike happy where it will run better and cooler. My thoughts, if you're going to put the filter and pipe one, just spend the money for the right map. (I don't like the maps that turn off the O2 sensor that float around out there.) Anyways, you should be ok with it. Many have done the above with no ECM or map changes with no issues. I will say though, one problem with not having a map is since it already is aiming for lean. If you get, say, an intake leak. It will lean out even more. The problem is since the stock ECM already is aiming for lean it gives you really no buffer. That is where the problem starts to come in. | ||
| Ncscuba |
Great info guys. I should have mentioned that this is an '06 model which, I believe, only has the single O2 sensor. I agree that with those mods I might as well pony up and get a proper ECM or tune but the situation right now is that I would be driving the bike back home from a couple hours away. I didn't want to hurt anything if I could avoid it. My plan was to go down there with a oem air filter and throw it on for the ride back home but it sounds like I should be ok without changing anything. Fill her up the with highest octane I can get and figure out where to get a race ECM afterward. Thanks again I'm in Fayetteville NC by the way if there's any members in this area... I'd love to come check out some bikes and throw a leg over to get a better feel | ||
| Cataract2 |
Bit far from NC so I couldn't help you on that part especially with the next semester coming up. Hopefully someone might be able to help | ||
| Gregoxb |
I thought my bike "ran great" when I installed a Jardine and K&N. Then I installed an EBR ECM and I realized my bike had actually been running like poop. | ||
| Ncscuba |
haha that sounds really inspiring greg! doesnt sounds like anyone is saying that having these mods on for a couple thousand miles is permanently damaging the engine, which is what I was hoping to hear. Thanks all | ||
| Bigbelly_racing |
Best move I have made on my Ulysses was adding the EBR ECM to my Jardine and K&N. | ||
| Tacolover |
Purchased a 06 XB12X Ulysses from a friend last year. Stock with documented 800 miles on it. Loved the bike hated the sound. I added a Drummer exhaust, EBR ECM and modified airbox for increased air flow. Trailer ed bike over to Harley Shop and had tps reset. Ran great for a short period of time and started backpopping on decel worse. Engine seemed to be getting hot so parked the bike and with the help of Kevin Drum decided it was the ECM. Sent email to EBR and got a response claiming probably a intake seal leak. Performed test and put stock ECM in it. Ran much better but still backpopping on decel. Sent new Race ECM to EBR and they found learned fuel values went lean? So they reprogrammed it and sent back. Bike runs perfect now, no backpop on decel now and just runs very well. Sounds great with that Drummer too... | ||
| Easyrider |
can be glogged injectors Tacolover you might wanne clean them. | ||
| Tacolover |
Bike runs very well now with no backpop on decel. Easyrider the whole point of my message was that EBR ECM was flashed with incorrect values and had to send it back. Once reset to proper values bike runs great. However it did take a couple of hundred miles for the backpop on decel to completely disappear with the mods I have done on this bike... |
