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Trojan
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 08:06 am: | 
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I would be surprised if the teams run XB12 motors rather than the tried and tested short stroke XB9 based engines of last year. Last time I spoke to Rich Cronrath he wasn't planning on running XB12 engines.
It will certainly be a very interesting class with the works Hondas fielding a very strong team too. Pity we don't get any coverage at all in the UK 
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Benm2
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 08:34 am: |
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Checked RRW last night, those things get crinkly when they're old. Yep, the top lightning bikes were high 390's to very low 400's at end of race. Don't know all the tricks used to get there, but they did get them there.
Blake, with power comes responsibility. While the identity of the anony may require protection, the use of the tag should be done with more care. If simple insults are all that's offered, it's just as easy to create a bogus profile and use it. |
Hobanbrothers
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 10:39 am: |
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As Tim stated, at that point I believe it was 390# with a specific dyno #, which most likely was 95 RWHP. Now that has changed with 3.8 rule and that is fine with us also.
I am sure it was 390# as Jeff tells that story every so often and we got lucky for sure!
Lets see how Daytona goes this year for both 3.8 ruling in Formula USA and AMA Formula Extreme with Honda's and such. The rules are set and now we have to go race them! |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 10:55 am: |
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BenM2 - I'm not too sure I would classify that as an "insult" as such... Maybe just a bit of a ribbing? |
Skully
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 01:58 pm: |
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"Yeah, that's what I was thinking... Something like the Nallin 1050 kit on a 12 makes a 1350???"
"The 1050 kit would make a 1250. Remember the 9 is really 984cc."
Perhaps I missed something in the conversation. Displacement upgrades are not additive. The displacement is a function of the bore (piston area) X the stroke X number of cylinders.
The Nallin 1050 kit increases the bore with stroke remaining the same. Therefore, the increase in displacement is 1050-984=66ccs.
In order to obtain 1200 or more ccs out of a XB9, one would have to bore the engine and stroke it as with a XB12.
Keith |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 02:14 pm: |
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Well, I'm not interested in doing the math ATM, but the extra stroke of the 12 combined with the extra bore of the kit would give you more than just the 66cc's that you get with the 984cc stroke length. Would it be a 1348??? not sure, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that one of the XB9 kits comes out to 1348 on the XB12. I'm most likely talking out of my ass though, and Aaron should jump in here and set us all straight.
Or I suppose I could just do a little math... |
Davefl
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 02:39 pm: |
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The 1050 Kit for the XB9 is the same bore as the 1250 kit for the 12. To make a 12 a 1350 the cases would have to be bored oversized to fit larger jugs. 1348 would be 82 cubic inches. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 03:02 pm: |
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OK, How far can you take the bore of an XB12 before you have to bore the cases? 3.515" or 3 9/16"? I assume that we can not get to 3 13/16 as Nallin's site says that bore takes the cases out to their max.
Can we get to 3 11/16? That should be in the ballpark of 1350? |
Wyckedflesh
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 04:25 pm: |
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3 3/4 inch bore yields 1360cc where as a 3 11/16 inch yields 1330cc engine.
I could see using the higher reving 9 as a base over the 12 for a long open track and the 12 for a tight technical track, where you would rarely get the chance to just crank it WFO long enough to top out the revs in 5th. |
Aaron
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 04:52 pm: |
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3-9/16 is the largest the cases will support without boring.
The kits we sell are:
1050 kit: 3-9/16 bore x stock XB9 3-1/8 stroke (bolt-on)
1200 kit: 3-13/16 bore x stock XB9 3-1/8 stroke (case boring required)
1250 kit: 3-9/16 bore x stock XB12 3-13/16 stroke (bolt on to an XB12, XB9 requires a flywheel assembly from an XB12)
88" kit: 3-13/16 bore x stock XB12 3-13/16 stroke (case boring required, XB9 requires a flywheel assembly from an XB12)
The common 1350cc configuration for these things is 3-13/16 bore x 3.600 stroke. We do those, too, but we have to do a custom crank. I prefer an 88incher for the street. |
Easyflier
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 05:46 pm: |
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Aaron, have you done an 88" XB already? |
Skully
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 06:08 pm: |
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I will issue the disclaimer that I am an amateur racer in the CMRA before you read the next paragraph!
I rode a XB12R at our tight, technical track (Oak Hill Raceway). After riding my Honda F3, I have to admit I was a bit disappointed as I had to shift nearly twice as often. The F3's motor has such a broad RPM range. Shifting costs me time.
If I were to race my XB on this same track, I'm pretty sure I had rather have the higher rev limit of the XB9 and bump up the displacement if I felt I needed more power.
That being said, Marcus McBain is currently helping Englishman119 (Mark Godfrey) upgrade his suspension, and having never ridden a Buell before, was lapping faster than me with the stock motor after just a handful of laps.
Obviously, rider skill has a lot to do with it even with me having 20% more horsepower.
Keith
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Sportsman
| | Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 01:27 pm: |
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I think it's 80% rider, 10% bike, and 10% how much rider knows about suspension setup. Fast guys go fast on anything. The rest of us struggle and learn. I don't know about all that shifting, I think it was pulling harder than you realize at lower rpm's. Be sure to use a laptimer and try different things. Shorter stroke does seem to be the ticket for the track and longer stroke for the street. That is why Buell is such a great street bike.
And back to previous posts, THINK RRRR! |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 05:54 pm: |
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Keith (Skully),
I recall the XB12R from Austin was supposedly dynoed at only 86 RWHP. If that is accurate, then something was wrong with that bike. It should have a good 10 rwhp over a race kitted XB9.
On the shifting... that could be a simple change in final drive ratio. You've got me thinking though. I've been shifting into 4th coming into turns 2 (of course), 3, 4, 6, and 7. That will sure wear you out. I can leave it in 3rd for all but 2 and 7, but it really revs the heck out of the engine. Heck, I shift into 3rd heading into turn 8 and have to downshift into 2nd while leaned over. You lazy jerk! 
Sportsman,
Remove the stock passenger pegs/mounts/seat, all the lights, most of the fuel, the charging system, the starter, a full sized battery (serious racing machines often run a small dry cell), the heavy stock muffler, the kickstand, ...
I can see 70 lbs worth adding up pretty quickly. |
Dynarider
| | Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 06:06 pm: |
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Blake, dont forget the Karen Carpenter diet plan & you can lose 50-100 lbs easily too, cheaper than carbon fiber |
Sportsman
| | Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 09:14 pm: |
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Heck, I'm 5'11" 145, if I loose 100 lbs I'll look like Karen Carpenter now!
How do I get a pic of my bike to attach?
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Bigsherm9r
| | Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 09:37 pm: |
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Sportsman-
type "\image" then "{your text here}" with no space in between. Preview/post the message, then it'll show your message with a "your image here" box. Proofread, then hit post, it'll ask you to select the image. It must be less than 50kb.
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Sportsman
| | Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 10:38 pm: |
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Sherm, you got mail from a computer UNsavvy. |
Skully
| | Posted on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 01:39 pm: |
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After rereading my earlier post, I realized that I failed to point out a few observations:
First, it sure was nice not listening to that IL4 scream.
Second, the bike was set up for someone that probably weighs 50 lbs less than me. As sensitive as the suspension seems to be, that could make a huge difference. Had I carried more corner speed, I might not have to shift so often.
Third, I liked the brakes. Riding my XB9S on the street is one thing. Riding my F3 on the track is completely different when it comes to braking. This is the first time I've ridden an XB on a track.
Fourth, it was not my bike. I sure didn't want to crash it!
Fifth, the owner has a steering damper installed (required by CMRA). It seemed to me that he had it set with too much resistance as turn in was very sluggish as compared to my XB without a steering damper. Again, the weight difference could have affected turn in.
Maybe Mark Godfrey will let me ride his? 
Anyway, I appreciated the chance to ride this XB12R and look forward to racing one of my own.
Keith
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Bigsherm9r
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 07:32 pm: |
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Here's Sportsman's bike
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Sportsman
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 02:11 pm: |
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Thank you Sherm. I probably should have sent it to Blake direct. Maybe he can figure out where to loose that last 30 lbs. I really don't know how they did it. I guess it's a pound here, an ounce there, titainum everywhere. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 02:16 pm: |
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You could probably lose some with CF rims...
What's your exhaust made of?
Carbon Fiber body parts?
Titanium bolts and such.
Are ceramic bearings lighter?
Belt Primary?
Is that a battery I see just in front of the number plate?
I don't race (yet), just thoughts. |
Sportsman
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 03:58 pm: |
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It's a stock battery, but to run FI it takes 3 little drycells and it's close on weight and alot more pain in the. I carry a starter, so that and the ring on the clutch maybe 7-8lbs. I guess my whole point is 1 unless your really good and have proven yourself on a Jap bike to get a free ride, 2 own a HD shop, 3 are an old fart with disposable income and midlife thing going on, your probably not going to race a compettitive Buell. It's an awful lot of stuff to get one ready to play and guys the right age to do well at a local level, don't normally have the dough to set one up, so they end up on a Suzuki. That's why I keep hopeing for a RR if not a XRR track only model. The Hondasuki guys ARE curious, but their wallets seem to stop them once they start investagating. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 06:33 pm: |
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Aluminum clip-ons, magnesium wheels, small/lightweight guages...
If an XB9R weighs 450 LBs wet, then having only 0.5 gallons left in the 3.7 gallon tank would translate to almost 20 Lbs of weight loss right there. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 10:14 pm: |
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What about the belt primary? |
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