| Author | Message | ||
     Uly_man |
This started after fitting a new front tire. Its not the front brakes as it still does it if you use the back brake hard or if you push the front against a wall and bounce the front hard. So it must be either the head race bearings, suspension or axle/bearings (maybe?). Every thing works great though ie steering, etc. I did have problems getting it on the fork stand but nothing moved or got bent/twisted. It sounds like a metal part sticking and moving back into place. I will re-check the axle torque, etc. I know this has come up before so any thoughts would help. | ||
| Rr_eater |
head bearings | ||
| Motorbike |
Rr_eater, why would this only show after he changed the front tire? What is different before and after a simple tire change that would make the head bearings go bad suddenly? Thanks. | ||
| Tootal |
Forks could have been in a bind from the factory masking the condition. Now that the forks are correctly seated the head bearings can move. Just speculating! First try loosening the lower clamp bolts on the triple trees. Loosen the head bearing nut clamp. Break the head nut loose and then tighten to factory spec. I like to remove the nut and use some anti-seize. Then retighten all the clamp bolts. See if this will cure it. Sometimes it works  , sometimes you buy new bearings!  | ||
| Ourdee |
My front bearing would click one time when getting on the front brake and once again when letting off at the stop. | ||
| Ourdee |
Question: Did you tighten the 2 bolts on the lower left fork to clamp the axle? | ||
| Uly_man |
Yes I did. But I have done the front end again anyway. It still seemed the same so I then went on to look at the steering head. These were a bit loose and I got an easy "no resistance" one-eighth turn on them. Thinking on it again thats VERY loose as even a low torque setting can put them out. A "resistance", not sure how they do that, test is due every 5k on these bikes. On the road it did click VERY slightly a few times but it has now, as far as I can tell, gone away. We will see? The bike steers as normal. Tootal do you have the head bearing and pinch bolt torque settings as I could only do them by hand at the time. Thanks for your help Guys. | ||
| Ourdee |
Time to decide if you want OEM bearings or All Balls tapered. Mine stopped clicking when I tightened them up. The clicking came back. | ||
| Ratbuell |
The resistance test is a scale. Lift the front end of the bike (use the muffler jack point, not the triple tree stand). Turn the bars all the way to one side. Hook a small scale (like a fisherman uses) to one fork leg. Use the scale to pull the bars back across center to the other side. Note the weight reading on the scale when you do this. I forget what the number is supposed to be, but if you don't have enough weight...tighten the head bearings. Too much weight, loosen them up. | ||
| Uly_man |
"Time to decide if you want OEM bearings or All Balls tapered. Mine stopped clicking when I tightened them up. The clicking came back." Yes I know that may happen so we will see. I still have the spare OEM set I had for the 06 bike but would need to check if they are the same for the 10 bike? "The resistance test is a scale." Oh that way of doing it. Cool. Thanks Ratbuell. I am VERY anal about how my bikes run and this is a MOST annoying thing to have on the bike. For me its a bit like having a fly buzzing around the room. Bugs the f*** out of me. So it will get fixed no matter what is needed. But thats just me. | ||
| Tootal |
Uly_man, I'm at work now but I will get you the torque spec. My manual is at home. I need to reset mine now that they've been in there for a while. Might be a good PM to retorque them once in a while. | ||
| Uly_man |
Hi Tootal. Thank you for your help. Have a good day. | ||
| Tootal |
Uly_man, the torque on the steering stem capnut is 38-42 ft-lbs. (52-57 Nm) The pinch bolt is 23-25 ft-lbs. (31-34 Nm) Fork clamp lower is 20-22 ft-lbs. (27-30 Nm) Fork clamp upper is 23-25 ft -lbs. (31-34 Nm) They recommend red loctite on all clamping screws but I would use blue. Hope that helps. | ||
| Motorbike |
Uly_man, how many miles do you have on your 2010 with the suspected bad neck bearings? It just seems way too new to have issues like that already. Do you wash your bikes or do they sit out in the rain a lot? My 08 XT with 12,600 miles on it clicks once in a while on braking but not always. I'm not really sure where the click is coming from yet. I re-tourqued the bearings about 1,000 miles ago but that did nothing for it. If my bearings are bad, I really don't understand how that could happen so soon. I do wash the bike a lot, with just low pressure fan spray from a garden hose. After washing, I always use compressed air to blow the water sideways out of the top neck bearing area. Maybe the seals are really crappy and water leaked in anyway? If that is the case, then anyone who has ever washed their Uly or ridden in the rain should have bad neck bearings? When I get the bike out in the spring, ( we are getting dumped on with snow right now ), I will really try to figure out if my bearings are bad or not. If they are, I sure as heck won't be installing the stock type of bearings again! I don't want to have to do this every 10 to 15 thousand miles. Does anyone here know if the All Balls Tapered Bearing Kit has good, water-tight seals? Thanks! | ||
| Buellerxt |
Motorbike, do you wear ear plugs when you ride? Do you hear the occasional click with plugs on? My front end seems tight at 21,000 miles and I haven't heard any clicking, but I wear ear plugs. Maybe I should ride it around the block without the plugs but it sure seems tight. Thanks. | ||
| Motorbike |
Buellerxt, no ear plugs, just an HJC full face helmet that fits my fat head fairly snug. (Helmet shown in my profile pic.) I have no reason to suspect my steering head bearings are bad other than the occasional single click when front brakes are first applied. I wouldn't have any idea what could make that noise except for the fact that I read about some others' experience right here on BadWeb. Thanks. | ||
| Uly_man |
Tootal thanks for the info. Motorbike. 7200 miles, I do not wash my bikes much, the bike is used in all weather and stands outside with a cover. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Motorbike - exactly what mine did and the bearings were shot (mostly the lower one). I see you are in on the other post that has all the details, so won't repeat here. I noticed the click even with earplugs, but only under heavier braking. Not 100% of time. It had been going on for a long time (maybe 1-2 years?). I pretended it was something else until this winter! | ||
| Motorbike |
Arcticktm, thanks! Please let us know if the click is gone now after all your hard work. I won't have my bike out of winter storage until sometime in April. I just got my new belt and plan to install that yet this winter. I will carry the old one along for a spare. I already installed my new EBR Finned Rotor and Mounting Kit, new EBC HH front and rear pads and have not even test ridden it yet. I'm sure glad I like to tinker. One project at a time! Thanks. | ||
| Arcticktm |
I will but I am sure that was the clicking once I felt the bearing. Inner race on lower bearing just had way too much play in it. I plan to put together this weekend, but now I had to order a new rear wheel, so will delay getting it back on the road by at least a week. | ||
| Motorbike |
Does anyone on here know if the stock steering bearings can be cross-referenced to a better brand of the same type? Thanks. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Not sure there is any evidence that the brand is a problem. Maybe our tall bikes just put enough load on them that they wear out quickly for some of us? I've got my tapered ones in now and the front end back together. I ended up at about 7 ft-lb on the steering stem cap nut, which was not more than 1/4 turn beyond snug. Fish scale steering effort test from the service manual gives me about 7-9 lbs pull once I had everything back together, excpet clutch cable disconnected (per SM). Connecting cable gave me about the same result, though. No rear wheel to get it back on the road yet for a test. This weekend or next, if parts arrive and weather OK. Note I replaced stock rear wheel bearings (NTN?) with SKF and they are shot again. Lasted a little longer, but not long enough. | ||
| Motorbike |
I was reading in my Service Manual about the (stock) steering bearings and adjustment. According to the book, you need to check the force needed to pull the forks from full turn to straight ahead. If it is not correct, loosen everything up, re-tourque the cap nut to the factory specs, retighten all other bolts and re-check. If it is still not in spec, the bearings need replacement. Seems odd to me. I would think that if the pull was too light, you could just torque the cap nut down a slight bit until the force to turn the forks is within spec. Any thoughts? (Message edited by motorbike on March 05, 2013) | ||
| Ourdee |
The bottom bearing on mine was rusty and knotchy when I replaced it. Remember to loosen the fork clamps when adjusting. I crimped some wires for extras when I reassembled it. Check lower left tree prior to tightening the bearings.  | ||
| Arcticktm |
Motorbike - I think it is virtually impossible for it to be too light. If you take the SM literally, it says 1-7 lbf to turn wheel from full right to straight ahead (at least my '06 SM). 1 lbf is not much, and not sure how you would ever get less than that, or be able to accurately measure it. The main harness and throttle cables alone probably make more resistance than 1 lbf even with "ideal" bearings. I think they are just trying to give numbers rather than what many books do when they tell you to go by feel or to just allow the steering to gently "fall" to the stops when lightly pushed. | ||
| Uly_man |
"Seems odd to me. I would think that if the pull was too light, you could just torque the cap nut down a slight bit until the force to turn the forks is within spec. Any thoughts?" "Motorbike - I think it is virtually impossible for it to be too light." After taking up the slack in the head stock bearings I am no longer getting any clicking. The front end is, however, VERY light at the moment and much more so than before, on the Ulys, or other bikes I have had. Its very easy to push the bike around but on the road you get a sort of "floating" feel from the front end. Ruts and bumps in the road feed back through the bars WAY to easy and can be a little un-nerving. Very little input is required to the bars and it feels like it would be VERY easy to "over compensate" with counter steering. While I guess you would get used to this and may be good for racing I do not think it is a good setup for road riding. I did not have the numbers, at the time, to torque mine and just did them by feel. I will do this soon and see what happens. Tires? I used 36psi front and 38psi rear but with the PR2s I found I needed 40psi for the rear in this cold, 0C, weather. Also half a turn less on the front comp. But my setup has 5ml extra of heavy oil in the forks so will not be the same for others. | ||
| Motorbike |
I re-torqued my steering head bearings last summer using the exact procedure described in the service manual and did not see any change at all. Still only seemed to make the occasional click if front brakes were suddenly applied, not feathered. I went out and bought a new digital fish scale (cheap, Rapala, $15) a week ago and measured the force needed to turn my forks from full right to straight forward, as described in the SM. It was almost exactly 5 lbs each time so that is within specs. I think I will wait to pull the front end apart until I decide to do the fork oil change. At that time, I might as well replace the fork seals and bushings and I will probably use Amsoil Shock Therapy 10 WT Synthetic unless someone on here can tell me why I should not. I just never know when to quit! I now have all new brakes and rotor on front and new pads on the rear. If I get the bike out this spring and it clicks enough to annoy me, I will order parts and tear it down some rainy weekend. Until then, I wanna ride! Thanks | ||
| Uly_man |
"Until then, I wanna ride! Thanks" I would not worry on it much Motorbike. If you have no rust from the bearings and no movement in the head stock it should be safe to ride. And thats the main thing. | ||
| Uly_man |
Torqued up the head to 40lb and the steering is back to normal. All seems fine. I did this and added a little oil to the right fork, to account for a failed dust seal, in no time at all. Which is good for me as every time I want to work on the bike it starts to rain. I used to know this Guy who would "blather on" about how hard this bike was to work on. Total rubbish. This bike is so easy it is near to boring and better than anything I have had before. Even the rear plug is not an issue once you get the hang of it. You want HARD try changing a clutch on a Citroen CX. Or just the battery on a BMW 1100RT. | ||
| Tootal |
Funny you mentioned the BMW! Was it a K model? I was on a trip with friends who were riding a K1100RT. In Gas City, Saskatchewan their bike started doing weird things. Put left blinker on the horn would honk. Right blinker on the left would start working! It was bizarre! Pulled into a gas station and called a local dealer and they said to clean the commutator on the starter. WTF? Called our home dealer, since we trusted them, and they said the same thing. So at 98 degrees in the shade, (I thought Canada was supposed to be cold!!), we had to take everything out, including the battery, to pull the starter. Disassemble the starter and used my buddy's wifes emory board to clean the commutator. After it was back together it fired up and all problems gone! Saved by the emory board! Who knew? | ||
| Uly_man |
Yeah. There is one BMW bike, it may be the R80, that if the clutch needs doing you have to split the engine. But nothing is perfect. I have been reading about the new bikes, like the Uly, and they ALL have problems. Of all of them the KTM seems the best and is a V-Twin as well. And like most V-Twins it has a hard time cranking that 990 cc engine. |
