| Author | Message | ||
     Advoutlander |
Is it worth changing from stock filter to a k&n? Does it help the engine breath better? | ||
| Pontlee77 |
Have you done and exhaust change or remapped the ECM? if the answer is no, then don't change the air filter for a K&N it will make your mixture more lean. | ||
| Trojan |
The difference between a brand new stock filter and a brand new K&N are not huge in terms of performance or air flow. HOWEVER, the stock filter will clog a lot quicker and lose performance a lot faster than K&N or Pipercross filters (other aftermarket filters are available!), so the advantage increases with use. The more miles you put on it the bigger the difference in air flow between stock and K&N etc. The biggest advantage of K&N/Pipercross etc is that you can clean them and re-use rather than replacing at service intervals. Remapping isn't usually necessary for just changing a filter, and changing just the filter will not normally make your bike run lean. | ||
| Advoutlander |
No the bike is all stock. I thought as much, for now ill keep it stock until I am comfortable with the bikes performance. The stock filter is not washable? | ||
| Panhead_dan |
I wash mine. I use a top secret method to wash it and then let it air dry. I have a second stock filter that I swap out during the procedure. | ||
| Jcbikes |
I wash mine too and it came out great. Got this idea a while back from another post on this site. (below) "Save yourself some money and wash the original oem filter. I've got 33,000+ on my original air filter. Wash it once per season and it works fine. First remove and tap out as much as you can. Then wash it. To wash all you have to do is gently soak the outside of the filter with very soapy water. Next run warm tap water through filter from the inside towards the outside. Rinse this way until all soap is gone and water is clear. Hang in shower until mostly dry and reinstall and ride. Remember that every time you ride in the rain these filters get damp. These filters are tough and will last a long time so no need to throw it out after only 15,000 miles of riding. Don't try to dry with compressed air because that'll blow a hole in any type of air cleaner media." | ||
| Panhead_dan |
My top secret method is really only top secret to my wife because I use her dishwasher. I put it on the top rack, use cascade and don't let it run the dry cycle. Been doing it this way for years. Please don't tell her. | ||
| Griffmeister |
No wonder every meal served on your dishes have that certain je ne sais quoi!  | ||
| Yamafreak |
Run the K&N and your stock ECM will learn to love it, mine did. | ||
| Desert_bird |
Third-party testing that I've seen suggests that K&N aftermarkets and other gimmicky filtering products fare poorly in the filtering category. They pass considerably more fine dirt and dust particles than stock filters do, resulting in dirtier oil and micro abrasions on metal engine surfaces and bearings. This leads to quicker wear and tear. They tend to let filter-oil pass into the throttle body and combustion chamber and clog quicker. K&N makes sense when anticipating frequent tear downs and when trying to squeeze every last bit of performance, such as in competition applications. My suggestion is to stick to stock, which breathes just fine and maintains the integrity of the (already stressed) oil. They can easily be washed and used 2-3 times over before the fibers begin to expand enough to constrict flow. IMHO More performance can be squeezed-out by learning to corner better and conserving vehicle momentum. DB | ||
| Uly_man |
All of this "cleaning" of the OEM paper air filters assumes that you have then tested them to the grade that (air flow rate) they were designed for from new. And that they are not breaking down? Anyone who can show me a process that can prove this, its part of the work I do, can come and work with me because we would make many, many millions in my, and other, line of work. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Jcbikes, You'll please send me a copyright fee "stat" for using that verbiage from one of my older posts.  | ||
| Jcbikes |
Just passing along some of your experience that has also helped me out in the matter.  | ||
| Trojan |
Third-party testing that I've seen suggests that K&N aftermarkets and other gimmicky filtering products fare poorly in the filtering category. I think you must have read some pretty flawed testing, as almost every report I have seen from reliable and trustworthy sources say that the benefits of K&N and similar aftermarket filters is not only good, but also improves over stock with mileage due to less clogging. So long as the K&N is installed and serviced properly (i.e. not allowed to dry out!) it will trap far more small particles than a stock (cheap) folded paper filter. If the stock filters were so great then race teams would retain them....they don't. I'm a bit dubious about washing a paper filter, as it must surely break down internally and affect flow rates. Has anyone ever flow tested a washed paper filter? | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Race teams are concerned about total air flow, not filtering capacity. So long as gravel and low-flying birds don't get through, the filter is good enough. | ||
| Desert_bird |
I think you must have read some pretty flawed testing, as almost every report I have seen from reliable and trustworthy sources say that the benefits of K&N and similar aftermarket filters is not only good, but also improves over stock with mileage due to less clogging. Interpret the results for yourself. Let me know how the tests are flawed: http://www.billswebspace.com/AirFilterTest.htm I read that this as showing that K&N provides lowest filtering efficiency, lowest accumulative capacity (plugging up 3 times faster and capturing 37% less dirt), greatest accumulative gain and total accumulative gain, and among the worst performance for dust loading. I'm no rocket scientist, but simple logic would lead me to believe that under the same atmospheric pressure and weather conditions, the same engine vacuum and operating conditions, the only way to increase the amount of air that passes through a filter is to decrease the filter's constriction by reducing filtering capacity. The only way to trap more is to filter more. Though, this leads me to think some sort of electric filter design would be a interesting option, to electro-magnetically attract particulates. DB | ||
| Luftkoph |
washing filters! did I stumble upon an KLR forum. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Back when I was growing up in Iowa, I used to ride without a helmet and frequently had to comb small birds and insects from my flowing mane. Maybe I should make a hair filter for my ULY. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Dirt your air filter passes ends up making your oil noticeably dirtier? The oil is getting dirty from combustion blowby and the like, but I have a hard time thinking dirt particles in the air are a big source of oil contamination. I think oil from the air filter (K&N type) causing an issue in the intake (throttle body) is also a big stretch. You get a lot more air from your crankcase breather (unless you have re-routed it, of course). Oiled air filters is a pretty old school proven way of improving filtration and water resistance in the off-road world. I am certainly not going to claim K&N type filters are better. Or worse. I believe most normal users (if any of us are normal) would be hard pressed to find any hard core difference over our bikes lifetime. I would hesitate to run a K&N setup in a seriously dusty off road environment with a long term engine, but that's just me playing it safe - not based on me building my own test lab or anything. | ||
| Desert_bird |
If particles in the intake-air are not a source of oil contamination that suggests that intake air doesn't get into the crankcase, but that it only enters and exists the combustion chamber. So why all the fuss of using an air filter at all? Could we just do away with the thing or use a piece of cheese cloth to keep out things the size of EG97's fashionable post-ride hair muck? My experience and understanding is that intake air gets into the entire crankcase and mixes with the oil, directly affecting its chemistry and cleanliness. This is one reason that motor oil gets dirty so quickly when off-roading or driving in other high-dust environments. ... but I could be wrong. I drive a Saab with a turbo running about 20 PSi under boost. When using a K&N filter I find the wires of my air mass meter covered in a fine film of oil from the filter, affecting running at idle. I am frugal with that sticky oil as well. Naturally this wouldn't be a problem with a normally aspirated and much simpler system on the XB bikes (Message edited by Desert_bird on February 12, 2013) | ||
| Trojan |
Race teams are concerned about total air flow, not filtering capacity. So long as gravel and low-flying birds don't get through, the filter is good enough. Yes and no. If air flow was the only factor then a simple guaze or grille would suffice. Most race teams use 'proper' air filters such as Pipercross or K&N now because engine life is an expensive factor in racing. Ask how many Paris-Dakar or MX competitors use stock filters as opposed to K&N in the gruelling conditions? They are not just concerned with airflow but also sand/dust/debris on a huge scale. If the stock filter was better I'm pretty sure they would use it. Also, stock paper filters are built down to a price in order to make them cheap for manufacturers and keep the price of thebike down (as are lots of other components). If manufacturers used the best parts available for the job then bikes would cost a massive amount more than they do now. | ||
| Dennis_c |
Look at a brand new K@N pre oiled from factory hold it up to the light you can see pin hole size holes in it that could let a lot of dirt through. | ||
| Uly_man |
How long a paper air filter lasts depends on the ride conditions. Two basic tips will show how it is. One is if the inside of the filter is getting darker and Two if the flutes are becoming distorted IE bent. Both of which show that the filter is toast. I did not notice any "power" advantage with the K&N on my 06 bike or the Piper on my 10 bike. But maybe a little more "pickup" on the throttle. I would use one in dirty conditions, like lots of dusty trails, to save money. As for washing well thats up to what people want to do. Either way all I do know is that a clean engine is a happy engine. For an extra 20 bucks, every 5k miles or so, it does not seem like much of an issue. And lets face it the bike is just about as cheap and easy as to maintain as they come. Does anyone think that washing the oil filter is a good idea? | ||
| Mark_weiss |
For sprint races, when rules do not require otherwise, a simple screen is often all that's' used. I suppose so though, in an endurance bike we do run an air filter. Usually oiled gauze or oiled foam. Some of the more recent OEM air filters are pretty good though, some sort of resin coated fuzz. Good filtering and lots of flow. In racing though, parts are sacrificial. They only need last long enough to win (or at least, finish). Dirt in the air is hard on rings, but rings are fairly low cost to replace. The rest of the grit ends up in the oil and the oil is changed every weekend. Even with club racing, an annual rebuild takes care of everything else. | ||
| Arcticktm |
"Does anyone think that washing the oil filter is a good idea?" Apparently people who buy those expensive stainless steel mesh oil filters do, but I am not one of them. D-bird, I concede the point on the air contamination impacting the oil. Even if mostly from combustion by-products, most of that is incoming air, so your logic makes more sense. I don't understand how a boosted system or not impacts your point on the mass air flow sensor getting covered in oil film, though. Seems it would be an equal issue (or non issue) regardless of boosted or not, if you had a MAF. If you are running 20psi on gasoline, I take it you have a modified setup? Or did Saab actually run that high of boost w/o running into problems? Ultra low compression pistons to offset? Just curious. Not really relevant to thread, I know. | ||
| Eulysses |
K and N filters are the sources of early engine wear. More air is less filtering. As a diesel guy for years I have followed the air filter tests. K@N is significant in silicate build up in oil. The best filters for diesels are factory paper or the Amsoil two stage according to serious studies. When I see a K@N in an ad...that bike or vehicle is off my list pronto! Euly | ||
| Mark_weiss |
I used a K&N filter in my last BMW R100rs. I had to replace the rings after only 120k miles. | ||
| Desert_bird |
Articktm: If you are running 20psi on gasoline, I take it you have a modified setup? Or did Saab actually run that high of boost w/o running into problems? Ultra low compression pistons to offset? Just curious. Not really relevant to thread, I know. Sorry for the delay there, and for the digression: Yes, minor mods on fueling and ECM will get 18-20 psi with good fuel. Problem is at that boost the stock turbo outruns itself. Stock SPG runs about 12 PSI with 9:1 compression. The original Swedish motors in older Saabs are downright bombproof and will handle 400 hp. Well built. It's the tranny and motor mounts that you have to watch! DB |
