| Author | Message | ||
     Buelliedan |
A little birdy told me that in the near future we might need to add a new superbike racing category to EBR racing. Lets just say they are looking outside the US borders!!! Here's hoping it happens.  | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
what racing category? roadracing - check drag - check LSR - check dirt and hillclimbs - check but i guess you mean something non-AMA... hmmmm WSB? | ||
| Trojan |
Hmmm...The EBR1190 would make a great Superbike, except that it probably isn't homologated for Superbike racing outside the US yet as it is not available as a 'production' motorcycle in sufficient numbers. They need to build a minimum number of bikes and prove to the FIM that it has been done before they get homologation. It used to be based on a promise to build rather than actual numbers, but I think that was dropped after the Foggy/Petronas fiasco of a few years ago (where the promised bikes were never actually built despite the bike being allowed to race) That would seem to rule it out of most international and domestic Superbike series, so maybe it will race in something like the German BEARS series or a series that doesn't need the original road bike to be homologated? I'm sure we would all love to see the EBR in international competiton, but I don't see it in Superbike yet. | ||
| Davegess |
Matt's commnets make me think of all the various ways taht homogation rules have been bent over the decades. The closer to "stock" that a series wants the vehicle to be the more beding there seesm to be but the really outragous ones are the Foggy one he mentions and the infamous Ferrari GTO of the early sixites. 100 cars needed to be built to be legal and the chassis numbers suggest that this happened. BUT Enzo just skipped numbers and only made 39. He lined up the a bunch of cars and simply told the FIM that the missing cars had been delivered to customers. the same thing was happening with NASCAR and SCCA Trans-Am cars with special packages that were in theory atually built in the correct numbers but in reality very few actaully hit the streets. The Plymough Super Bird. Chryslar records show they made exactly the 1920 required but less than 200 had the hemi engine that was used as a the race engine and many of the 1920 may have only existied on paper. Pretty tough to pull that sort of thing off today as the sanctioning bodies have gotten much more serious about this stuff and with very severe government penatlies for fudging the paperwork I would be surprised to see someone pull it off today. | ||
| Trojan |
WSB got fooled twice like that. The first time by Benelli and then by Petronas (and probably by Ducati too over the years!). I think they actually send a guy to the factory now to count actual real life bikes already built rather than 'on paper' ones like before Even with a dispensation on numbers, there are currently no EBR bikes on general sale outside the US so it would still struggle to fulfill the 'production' rule for Superbike competiton, although of course that particular hurdle may be overcome quite quickly. Whether the bike is homologated for road use in Europe yet I don't know. | ||
| Jaimec |
Step one in place: Securing financing from GE Capital. | ||
| Firstbuell |
actually, there are recent fotos of the required 50 Petronas bikes - all STILL complete & massed together - in an anonymous UK warehouse | ||
| Elvis |
Based on statements directly from EBR that have been published in RRW and elsewhere, two points seem clear: 1. EBR does have a clear interest in future WSBK participation. 2. The WSBK program will be based around the 1190RX - not the 1190RS. So 1190RX production is the horse and WSBK is the cart. We can expect that the WSBK version of the 1190RX will be very similar to the 1190RS - with the suspension and engine components that will be downgraded for the 1190RX added back in WSBK trim as is (currently) allowed by the rules. I would expect that 1190RX development is being done with a clear eye toward what modifications will be allowed in WSBK. Once production of the 1190RX gets under way, I would think the investment required to field a WSBK team will be a bigger hurdle than prouction numbers and homologation limits. 2013 participation is pretty much off the table at this point, and I'd think the chances of 2014 are slim, but the chances of 2015 and beyond become increasingly likely. I would be interested to know if there will be an 1190RS Gen. 2 (perhaps called an 1190RX LTD or similar). They must have learned HUGE amounts since they began racing the 1190RS, but AMA rules pretty much lock that design in place. WSBK rules allowing modifications to the 1190RX could provide a bike for WSBK that is advanced well beyond the 1190RS (both through improvements to the 1190RX over the RS and the additional modifications allowed through WSBK rules). I'd like to see that WSBK spec. bike produced in a 100 bike run so they can run it in the AMA (and continue to offer a top tier, high dollar bike to a very exclusive crowd). | ||
| Mog |
Since the 1190RS is now an AMA platform, might the 1190RX use the 1190RS parts as privateer purchasable race parts? So right, that the expense of foreign racing in WSB would sink the EBR company. I realize GE is bigger than Xerox (for Ducati) but EBR has not gained anywhere near the name recognition as Ducati. The support team would be larger than the current company of EBR. I can dream though.  | ||
| Toona |
Without some kind of electronic traction control, I don't see EBR being competitive in WSBK. | ||
| Davegess |
I don't GE is not so much investing in the company but is providing financing to build a dealer network. I rather doubt any of that money can go to racing. That said, I see big things coming. Just the fact that GE would provide this kind of financing speaks volumes about wha ti going on behind the scenes. Stay tuned. | ||
| Trojan |
As dave says, GE Fonance is just a commercail deal to allow dealers to finance their floor stock (all manufacturers have similar arrangements to give dealers 60/120 days credit for stock). It doesn't mention race sponsorship or even support of the EBR race team in AMA or anywhere else for that matter, so unless there is an announcement to the contrary from EBR I would't hold your breath waiting for GE to run the race team. | ||
| 1313 |
Is it possibly related to this? I just happened to stumble upon it and was surprised nothing was mentioned about it. I'm guessing there was EBR (product) representation there - and not racing - even though the image leads one to believe otherwise, 1313 | ||
| Finedaddy1 |
That is kinda suspicious...But I would love to see EBR in WSBK. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Without some kind of electronic traction control, I don't see EBR being competitive in WSBK. EBR has already said they will have electronic traction control this year for AMA Superbike. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thats Danny's number, making it odder. | ||
| Trojan |
EBR has already said they will have electronic traction control this year for AMA Superbike. There is a HUGE difference between AMA electronics/TC and WSBK electronics. WSB uses pretty much the same system as MotoGP (Ten kate Honda actually uses exactly the same system as Repsol Honda) whereas AMA electronics are basically very cut down budget versions in comparison. Big WSB teams BMW/Aprilia?Kawasaki/Honda/Ducati) now spend more on electronics and electronic stategy than probably any other as[pect of their race budget. Much as I would love to see EBR in WSb I don't want to see them running around mid pack or worse just because they can't yet afford the mega expensive electronics. I'd rather see them race in Superstock first, where everything is much closer to the stock bike (and where most 'experts' believe the WSB rules are heading to anyway). | ||
| 46champ |
Matt how much slower in lap time is a BSB or a Superstock bike around the same track? Would the spectators notice the difference? | ||
| Trojan |
Matt how much slower in lap time is a BSB or a Superstock bike around the same track? Would the spectators notice the difference? difficult to compare like for like as they use different tyres and electronics etc. and it would very by track. faster tracks favour WSB oevr Superstock for instance. In pure lap times probably 1-2 seconds per lap between the very best, but in terms of overall race time and position it could be a long way off. I remember John Hopkins qualifying a BSB spec Suzuki on the front row at Silverstone WSB, but was not able to run near the front over a full race distance. I think if all the bikes on the grid were Superstock spec the spactators wouldn't notice the difference in pace, as the racing would be closer and just as exciting. When BSB got spec ECU's a couple of season ago the racing got beter and nobody noticed the slightly slower speeds (which were soon made up with other advances anyway). Just look at how exciting Moto2 is compared to MotoGP right now? Speeds are a lot slower but tracing is beter, so nobody complains that the bikes are 5 seconds a lap slower. Likewise XR1200 racing.....great show and well supported despite slow speeds | ||
| Buelliedan |
Guess I was right back in Dec 2012. Way to go EBR. http://www.cyclenews.com/585/22511/Racing-Article/Geoff-May-And-EBR-To-World-Superbike.aspx (Message edited by buelliedan on October 24, 2013) | ||
| Hughlysses |
Very good "leak"/projection Dan.  Now, what's going to happen with EBR's AMA effort, and who's going to ride the other EBR WBS bike? Predictions? | ||
| Buelliedan |
My source is a bigshot in WSBK so that is how I knew this was coming. I don't have any idea who the other rider might be. | ||
| M2typhoon |
I've heard Pedrosa... | ||
| Firstbuell |
I'm in for Chaz Davies |
