| Author |
Message |
    
Salutyoyo
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 09:32 am: | 
|
Hi,
I'm trying to ride my first american bike on the other side of the atlantic ocean. It's an XB12XT 2010 with 24000 km on the clock.
The bike seems to be running normally except when it doesn't ! Every 5 to 10 minutes the bike dies completely for half a second then every thing comes back as if nothing had happened, with just the engine light on for a couple of seconds. The previous owner encountered the same problem and says it was solved by replacing the "cam position sensor" a few month ago (but I don't know if I can take that for granted). To me it doesn't look like a short circuit or loose wire, but more like a failure in a sensor. What do you think ? |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 11:35 am: |
|
The cam position sensor is one good suspect, hard to test that one without an oscilloscope (and a badly behaving bike). You can at least check the connector, it comes up from the cam cover under the plastics that cover the sprocket.
A hint that it could be the cam position sensor is if the RPM's on the tach jump *up* when you are sputtering. Like by 1000 RPM's or so. That was my symptom.
The bank angle sensor is another good suspect. I would use ECM Spy to disable it in the ECM (which I think you can do) and see if the problem goes away. I like having the sensor, so once I established it was the problem I would replace and re-enable it, or if it wasn't the problem I would re-enable it.
The coil could also do it. I suppose the fueling system could do it, if say the fuel pump is clogged or the wires are chafing and it is occasionally failing to put pressure to the injectors. Does it backfire when the bike comes back to life? That would hint that fuel is still coming but the spark went away. If there are no backfires, then I would lean towards spark there but no fuel.
An XB12 backfiring sounds really cool. DAMHIK.  |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 11:37 am: |
|
Oh! And I forgot one really obvious one. I had chafing / internal wire breaks in the wire harness where it came out from under the flyscreen and up under the frame. It was effectively flipping my kill switch on and off when I moved the bars to full lock. Thats worth checking as well. Check carefully, the copper in side the wire will break but not the insulation, so you need to fell for the problem, not just look for it. |
Salutyoyo
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 01:48 am: |
|
Thanks for the suspects list.
My bike just seems to die for a very short while. No backfire, no sputtering, no bad idle, but it seems to happen only when the engine is warm.
The RPMs just drop without jumping at all. So maybe the cam sensor is ok, but I'll check on the connectors anyway.
The bank angle sensor rings a bell, I know the bike was dropped a few months ago. But I thought ECM spy didn't work for 08+ XBs ? Is there a way of disconnecting that sensor by hand ?
I had read about issues on the wires themselves, but in my case, it usually happens when the bike is in a steady position. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 10:10 am: |
|
Personally I think Reepi is in the wrong ballpark with this one. Pop off your seat, look at the ECM (black box with two connectors, one grey, one black), you may notice damage to the connectors. With some riders the seat will make contact with the ECM and will break the connector, and the symptoms are the same as what you are experiencing. You can do a search on here for ECM relocation, there are a bunch of ways to do it, and if you caught it early enough you might not need to replace the ECM.
Regarding the BAS - it is not that, if it triggered you would know it, it doesn't shut you down for moment, it shuts you down till you cycle the kill switch. (Maybe key on 08+, haven't tested it on a 08+ XB, my 08+ 1125 requires the key off/on)
ECMspy - The old free version will not work for you, there is a newer paid version that will, but for free you can get TunerPro that does everything any more. TunerPro/ECMspy will both let you read the trouble codes if there are any stored.
(Message edited by froggy on August 03, 2012) |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 11:47 am: |
|
And in your case, the system uses a 'crank position sensor', and I don't know how a prefailure of that would affect the bike. The two systems are related, but what affected one may not affect the other in the same way.
I'm more w/Froggy on this one, and suspect your focus should be on the ECM mounting and the stuff around it. IF your problem is not the ever popular loose battery cable connection .....
Dave |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 12:29 pm: |
|
Good point on the BAS diagnosis! |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 05:21 pm: |
|
Pondering the situation a bit more ...
The check engine light on for a bit may be another clue. Check the relays for good contact and secure positioning. I.E. is the ign relay tightly in its socket. Just for fun, might try swapping them around, and see if that helps. |
Salutyoyo
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2012 - 08:04 am: |
|
"Crank" position sensor and not "cam", that's right. The reason why I talked about this sensor is that the previous owner had it changed for the same symptoms. But I doubt it solved anything. And the connector seems to be in good condition.
I checked the connectors around the ECM, nothing to say.
The battery cables are the first things I checked.
I think I'll swap around the relays to see what happens. And I'll look into TunerPro. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2012 - 10:34 am: |
|
That sensor should probably be called a crank position sensor, as it is on the crank. But Harley calls it a cam position sensor, which it does I suppose...
For what that's worth...
(Message edited by reepicheep on August 04, 2012) |
Salutyoyo
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 02:17 pm: |
|
New signs: I now noticed that the bike didn't have to be running or evening having the power on to behave strangely: when moving the bike,I saw the needles go up and down like when I switch on, and the clock had been reset to zero ( one o'clock in fact).
My suspect is now definitely some broken wires somewhere ... but where ? |
Froggy
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 02:39 pm: |
|
The gauges jumping and the clock reset means you are having a power issue, possibly a broken wire in the loom running along the left of frame at the steering neck. |
Murf2
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 06:53 pm: |
|
Mine did that. I found a broken wire right where it comes out of the "protector" right along the left side of the neck. When I fixed it I left the plastic protector off and used large wire ties to support the harness. You'll see what I mean when you get in there.
Good Luck
Murf |
Salutyoyo
| | Posted on Friday, August 24, 2012 - 03:41 am: |
|
I've had my HD dealer look into it and they found an almost broken wire (that brings power to the front panel). That explains the issues with the clock and gauge. But they're not sure that it could cause the engine to shut down when riding. So they're keeping the bike for the moment ... and I'm still without a bike ! |
Salutyoyo
| | Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2012 - 04:42 am: |
|
Problem solved. The ECM itself was the troublemaker. It's been replaced and everything's running fine now.
Many thanks to all those who tried to help ! |
Harleyelf
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2012 - 10:29 am: |
|
Now go through the electrical system looking for more "almost broken" wires. If there's one there may be more. Especially you should check the coil wires and the bundles around the steering neck. Pinch them in your fingers and slide your hand down their length to feel for irregular spots. |
Sirvincentblack
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2012 - 08:39 pm: |
|
Really glad to have found your issue resolved..I'm having the exact same issue..link below. . .I guess i'll start saving my money..cause I just replaced the CPS and it was a bust.
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/679647.html?1336806834
Anyone have a ECM to sell? 2006 XB12X Uly |
Salutyoyo
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 08:49 am: |
|
Hi Sirvincentblack, I had seen your issue before posting mine. And they look alike a bit, but you never can tell it's the same before replacing the parts ... and some parts cost a lot.
On a french Buell forum, there was another guy with similar problems on the same bike as mine (09'XT) and he also had to buy a new ECM to get back to normal. So it doesn't happen so rarely to burn out an ECM. And in my case, there was no error code from it.
Maybe you could find a way of testing your bike with another ECM before buying a new one ?
Good luck
Yoyo |
|
Troubleshooting (Poor Starting/Running/Handling/Ride Issues) »
Archive through October 27, 2012 »
Uly - stop and start when riding