| Author | Message | ||
     Smoke4ndmears |
That Moto2 race was quite satisfying to watch. Here's to hoping GP will be half as entertaining! | ||
| Jaimec |
Sucks for Pedrosa, but now Dani is on essentially a level platform with Jorge in that he was taken out by an overenthusiastic competitor too. And great to see Rossi on the podium in a DRY race... maybe Dovi and Spies have a shot on the Desmosedici next year after all! | ||
| Trojan |
Great to see Rossi on the podium again, but that race only highlighted one thing for me...the shear lack of depth in terms of good bikes and good riders in MotoGP. Stoner was out before the start, so once Dani was out and Crutchlow crashed that was 3 of the potential podium finishers out of the race. Lorenzo could have walked to a victory (and pretty much did) with only the battle for the minor places faught out by people who would normally be 6th-9th. Spies was again disappointing, and it seems very strange to see him struggling around behind all the other prototypes (with the only exception of injured Hayden and stand in Rea) professing to be pleased with a lowly position, given so many leading contenders were out, giving him his best opportunity of a podium all year. Anyone whot hiks that Spies will have some magical metamorphosis over the winner and suddenly be a winner on the Ducati is certainly barking up the wrong tree, despite the fact that Ducati/Rossi have certainly made some prgress after their recent tests (at Misona remember). Let's see how they go at Aragon before we get the red flags out though, where Honda and Yamaha tested recently and Ducati didn't. Thanks fully Moto2 and Moto3 were both great races and made the afternoon worth watching...again. | ||
| Bads1 |
Now doubt Trojan I feel the same. One thing though that did seem to give off a glimmer of hope was that Rossi's Ducati wasn't fading. His lap times did stay consistent. To me that was a plus considering they were in the dry. And I know Rossi must think that his podium was a gift but It did at least put some moral in it for him. Maybe Ducati is slowly making some good changes??? Didn't I read right that they did have a new chassis for Misano?? | ||
| Smoke4ndmears |
New swingarm and chassis. I concur that it wasn't so much the podium but the consistency that is the feel-good takeaway for Ducati. I also concur with Trojan that it is unlikely that Spies is going to miraculously become a winner with the transition to Ducati. He's had plenty of time in MotoGP to make his mark. With MotoGP it seems the closer one gets to the top of the profession, the greater the relative gap between riders. | ||
| Jaimec |
Spies did very well on the 800s. He was SUPPOSED to do even better on the 1000s since they'd be closer to the Superbikes he was used to, but it's been one thing after another. I wouldn't count him out. Everyone has a bad year... hell, Rossi has had TWO bad years in a row. But it does sound like Rossi's work with the Ducati is starting to pay dividends. They got another swingarm tweak that Rossi will use in Aragorn. Nicky tried the new chassis today and liked it, so he'll have it for the next race too. Not sure if he'll get the new swingarm or not. He SHOULD. If the work keeps up at an accelerated pace, then who knows? Maybe Nicky, Ben and Andrea will have a shot next year? By the way, here is a REAL good write-up of the comedy of errors committed by Pedrosa and his team yesterday: http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/motogp-summ ary-sunday-san-marino-gp-2012/ | ||
| Trojan |
I think that teh Ducati was flattered by 2 days of testing at Misano recently, and the lack of track time faced by everyone else this weekend, rather than any major technical development. Jerry Burgess has been pretty vocal recently regarding Ducatis tardiness in getting mods to the front line, and the 'new' swingarm they used this week is in fact the 'old' carbon swingarm with minor modifications, not anything really new. Likewise the chassis featured just a few repackaging solutions to move weight distribution rather than anything groundbreaking. I think the real acid test will come not at Aragon (where the other major teams tested recently and Ducati didn't) but at the next round where nobody has any recent testing experience. Much as I would like to see otherwise, I would expect Ducati to find themselves back in their usual 5th-9th battle rather than playing for the podium places. I wouldn't count him out. Everyone has a bad year... hell, Rossi has had TWO bad years in a row. The big difference is that Rossi has had two bad years on what is acknowledged to be the worst factory bike in the paddock. Spies has had a really bad year on the best factory bike in the paddock, and the one that his team mate (the only reliable indicator) is winning the championship on. Big difference really  Put someone having a bad time on a bad bike and I think things won't improve in the short term. I also think that unless Ducati have a root and branch clean out of Pramac team then Spies will get frustrated very quickly by the teams inner problems. Most of their recent riders have complained about the inner politics of the team in some way or another. | ||
| Bads1 |
Pic I took of Spies at Indy. Next time it'll be a Duc. Good luck Ben your gonna need it...... I think.  | ||
| Bads1 |
Next time I'll get pics of Rossi back on the Yamaha.  | ||
| Bads1 |
Title Hopes for Pedrosa don't look good for him. What happened to him kinda reminds me of what happened to Nicky when Pedrosa took him out. Things looked bleak but it worked out for him none the less. Could it for number 26.....Don't know.  | ||
| Jaimec |
A lot of people (me included) have forgotten this: http://londonbikers.com/news/4639/repsols-dani-ped rosa-i-will-be-nicky-haydens-best-help-in-valencia Truth to tell, my anger is directed more to Dani's moron of a manager than to Dani himself. Somehow, though, I don't think Hector will be as willing to "assist" Pedrosa as Pedrosa was to assist Hayden in the aftermath. | ||
| Bads1 |
I agree with that for sure. Just funny how its on the other shoe. | ||
| Trojan |
sh*t happens in racing, and Dani was trying to get from the back of the grid (which was nobodys fault but HRC's for not knowing/obeying the rules) to the front on the very first lap. I can't see how he can lay blame on anyone else, even Barbera for his accident, which looked like it was going to happen at some point just with the way Pedrosa was riding to make up lost ground. He can't expect other racers just to move out of his way becasue he is out of position, and should/could have taking it a bit easier taking time to move to the front and scored useful points rather than 'doing a Melandri' and trying to do it all on the very first lap of a long race. No sympathy on that one I'm afraid. | ||
| Jaimec |
I do so love reading Dennis' insights. Here he analyzes the "Cluster ####" from the last race: http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-noye s-notebook-pedrosas-perfect-storm/ | ||
| Jaimec |
<sigh> Not being content with punting people off the track in WSBK, I see Johnny Rea has decided to take his own unique style to MotoGP and punt people off the track there as well... SCARY crash for Nicky. So far I hear he'll be fine. UPDATE: I just reread that, and I want to clarify that Johnny had NOTHING to do with Nicky's crash. Sorry about that. (Message edited by jaimec on September 30, 2012) | ||
| Simond |
Yep, those pesky guys at Honda forgot to fit mirrors . | ||
| Trojan |
I don't think Rea had much to do with Rossis off track excursion, other than being on the same piece of track. It was just a 'racing incident' and Rossi was travelling much faster at the end of the straight than Rea, so he probably didn't expect him to arrive alongside, especially on the outside. Johnny took what would be the normal line at that point (in fact he was inside the normal line taken by Spies and a couple of others, who were up the kerb at that point). Nicky's crash was strange...can't see why he didn't bail out before hitting the wall? Glad he was OK though as it looked a bit nasty. Other than that....BORING!!!!! thank god for Tech 3 and Moto2 is all I can say. It shows what the effect of just 4 decent factory bikes (and only 2 top riders on them at present) in a field of 20+ does to racing. If they don't get a grip on the rules soon it will become even more of an irrelavant joke. There was just 1 overtake for the lead all race, and if it wasn't for the ongoing Cal/Dovi battle there would have been precious little worth watching yesterday. Spies was disappointing again, and there is no excuse for a factory Yamaha to finish behind the Tech 3 guys. He was lucky that Bradl fell off or he would have been a poor 6th. Don't know what is going on with him but it isn't just mechanical issues thats for sure. Moto2 was of course completely different as usual, and very exciting. Great race by all of the top 6 but especially Scott Redding, who was only days from a major hand operation and in some serious pain. Bring on next MotoGP season as quickly as possible please, although I can't see much improvement in the action until 2014 at the earliest. | ||
| Jaimec |
Nicky had said later that he was afraid that if he did bail, he'd hit the wall head first. Thankfully, no injury but MAN that was scary!! The good sign for Ducati is that, in two races now, Rossi hasn't gone backwards at the end of the race. Things might actually work out for Ben and Dovi next season after all! | ||
| Trojan |
The good sign for Ducati is that, in two races now, Rossi hasn't gone backwards at the end of the race. The Ducatis were hardly impressive in qualifying or race trim though, despite Rossis charge through the back markers to 8th. I can't see them improving too much for next year once his crew leave. If Nicky was going to make big improvements I think it would have happened by now, so can't see anything happeneing on that side of the garage. Will Dovi be better? Unlikely in the extreme. He is a rider that relies almost totally on a striong front end and the ability to brake very very late. he simply will not be able to do that on a Ducati and I can't see him re-learning a new technique quickly when he has ridden this way all his career so far. My worry is that they currently have the best rider/tech crew in the world working for them and can't get to the front. Next years team will undoubtedly benefit from the work that VR/JB have done over the last 2 years, but I still don't see it as enough to win. Next years riders/techs don't have half the development skills of the current team, so will they improve? I doubt it. Ben Spies seems to need more than a new team/bike to sort him out at the moment, and despite some flashes of his old self in qualifying he is still missing something. A new team with a worse bike is hardly likely to re-light his fire again. In fact I think the rider most likely to improve the fortunes of Ducati next year will be Andrea Iannone, simply because he brings no 'baggage' from other teams on what a GP bike should ride like, and is young and fearless (like Stoner was in the first year). It would of course be good to see at eoast 6 factory bikes fighting for podiums next year, but I doubt it. I think we will be seeing the Yamaha/Honda battle continuing between Lorenzo and Pedrosa, with teh occasional podium fight for Rossi and Marquez to liven it up a bit. factory Ducati will be chasing Tech 3, LCR and the 'Junior' Ducati team for the minor placings. | ||
| Jaimec |
It's hard to tell how Nicky is responding to the development changes because he's been so banged up lately... | ||
| Trojan |
It's hard to tell how Nicky is responding to the development changes because he's been so banged up lately... But he has been there 4 years+ now, so should have some idea of direction? He is also banged up because the bike keeps throwing him down the road, which is hardly progress. When he rode the new chassis in practice at Aragon he said he couldn't really feel any difference over the old model. Nicky tends to tell it as it is rather than in corporate happy speak, so I think we can deduce from that comment that it is hardly a revelation for Ducati, and that they have some way to go even to compete with the 2nd tier teams. What Ducati really need is a new engine that can be packaged in a chassis similar to the Yamaha/Honda class leaders and that riders can feel familiar with pretty quickly. Ploughing their own furrow is fine when it works, but when it doesn't work they have nothing to compare it to. When they first arrived in MotoGP they managed to build a competitive bike almost by accident, and in the first year of 800cc racing they won by aggressive tuning and power compared to the more conservative Japanese factories. Now they have no 'Aces' left up their sleeves after trying pretty much every solution, so are pretty lost with the current bike and nothing short of a new engine will make a huge difference really IMHO. I may yet be surprised by a sudden upsurge in Ducati performance next season, but I doubt it. | ||
| Jaimec |
COULDN'T feel the difference?? Your comprehension of his words seem to be a bit lacking:
Source: http://www.nickyhayden.com/2012/09/17/promising-te st-for-ducati-team-at-misano | ||
| Davegess |
I kinda wonder why no air fence where Nicky crashed? He was sitll moving at a good clip despite the gravel trap, seems like a spot where AF would be nice. | ||
| Jaimec |
Dave, that was actually the second thing that crossed my mind, right after HOLY S***!! | ||
| Trojan |
COULDN'T feel the difference?? That isn't the quote that was given elsewhere during the race. The commentators actually stated that Nicky 'couldn't feel any difference' between the new and old chassis. I think the air fence question needs to be addressed at every circuit, but to be fair to the organisers, this fence was over 100 meteres from the edge of the track across gravel, so under 'normal' circumstances riders wouldn't reach it. A combination of wet gravel and Nicky's 'I'm going to stay on no matter what' riding combined to make a strange accident happen where it normally wouldn't. Having said that, they now know it can happen so should have air fencing there in future. | ||
| Jaimec |
Matt, if you were quoting the commentators (I didn't hear that comment here in the States) then THEY have a comprehension problem. Maybe it's Nicky's Kentucky accent? | ||
| Trojan |
I'm not sure wen Nicky made the comment you qoted above, but the commentators were quoting him from Saturday Free Practice I think (certainly pre race anyway). However, regardless of quotes etc, both Rossi and Hayden had front end crashes during FP and Qualifying, and both had 'off track excursions' during the race (although Rossi can't be put down to the Ducati this time), so any improvement in the bike has to be viewed with this and another poor result in mind. Rossi did manage to make up some places, but ended up where he probably would have done anyway (by his own admission), and still a LONG way from winning or even getting close to it. Ducati don't need incremental changes to the bike they have, they need a new bike from the engine up. I just don't see who is going to design or develop a more competitive machine with their current (and future) team setup. Maybe changes in the rules will bring the competition back to them rather than Ducati catching up, but I think that it is pretty sad that this could be their best hope. With the new ECU for 2014 it is even conceivable that the factory Ducati could be fighting CRT bikes for position rather than factory prototypes. | ||
| Jaimec |
Well, we still haven't had a chance to see what Nicky would've been capable of, but it is important to note that even though Rossi wasn't able to match the pace of the front runners, he still managed to charge through the back of the pack up into the top ten, and wasn't going backwards at the end of the race either... | ||
| Trojan |
even though Rossi wasn't able to match the pace of the front runners, he still managed to charge through the back of the pack up into the top ten, Getting from the back into the top ten shouldn't be seen as a good achievement for a factory bike, even a Ducati. Rossi admits that 8th was probably the best result he could have got even if he hadn't run off track, and even that was flattered by Bradl's crash. Crutchlow showed earlier in the season just how quickly you can get through the CRT bikes from the back of the grid, and Pedrosa was most of the way there in under one lap before getting punted off last race, so making his way to the back of the prototypes and ahead of the CRT brigade wasn't a huge gain and looked more impressive than it was in fact. The Ducati may not be losing time at the end of the race, but the overall lap times are just not fast enough to keep up with the leaders from the start. Couple that with a front end problem that still hasn't been resolved (and look sunlikely to be resolved completely) and they still have a long way to go yet. | ||
| Davegess |
Yeah the "improvement" for Ducati has been getting into the top 10 and then not going backward. I guess that is step in the right direction but it is certainly a baby step. Haydens off has been causing some comments as to the lack of airfence and how it is inexcusable that it was not there. |
