| Author | Message | ||
     Murf2 |
Hi all, Seeing as how my bikes aren't drawing too much interest in the classifieds, I thought I'd ask about doing some mods for better gravel road running. Both bikes feel like the front tire is hunting all the time. Following ruts and getting sucked into the loose gravel. I need a new tire, so I'm going to try something other than stock. I'm thinking about running a 120/90-17 on the front. I'm hoping the extra height will help the front track straighter. What effect would lowering the rear & leaving the front alone have on handling? Would it help it track truer in the loose stuff? What about using the late triple trees with the early forks? If I understand correctly, this would increase rake. Would that help make it more stable? Any suggestions you guys have on improving rough road handling would be welcomed by me. Thanks as always, Murf | ||
| Panhead_dan |
I don't think these bikes will ever ride well in the loose stuff. Deep, loose gravel, mud or sand are very hard to ride in. Knobbie tires and a 21 in the front may be the answer, that's what dirt bikes have. They also have half the weight. On most routes there is a 6 inch wide path around the worst of it. Find it and keep on going. There are lots of more dirt oriented D/S's if that's what you're after. (DR, KLR for example) The Uly will never be a dirt bike. I bought mine not for the dirt, though it has seen some. I bought it because it is double tough, versatile, easy to maintain and economical. It has proven top be just what I needed. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Changing the triple trees will change the trail; the rake will remain the same. I'm not sure if that'll do anything to help dirt handling. People that have done the change say it has negligible effect on pavement handling. Lowering the rear would increase the rake and might help with the tracking slightly. For that matter, a steering damper might help. I'm pretty much with Dan though- short of fairly radical mods, you're never gonna make a real dirt bike out of a Uly, and you're bound to ruin the on-pavement handling too. | ||
| Brucespoint |
I think the triple tree swap gave another 1/2 inch of wheelbase, more important on trail, a bit more mud clearance. It might make it a little bit less nervous, I'd love to do it. But no making up for that rake, it IS going to feel nervous! I've found just ghosting it, and letting the front wheel Be nervous, works pretty well, but it is Still a big pig of a Trail bike, Off trail is Not a good place for it, it's Not a dirt bike, it's a Big bike, that Can be ridden mildly on trails, until you encounter Mud. Fuggettaboutit. It is Allergic to Mud. I leave the bags on, easier to pick up that way.Maybe the new Trail 17 front will help that, doubt much. Physics, & no chance of a 21" front wheel, I'd love to be able to get Triple trees to do a 19" front, think that's doable. b. | ||
| Murf2 |
"I thought I'd ask about doing some mods for better gravel road running." No single track. no mud just more relaxing gravel running. From what I can find, a 120/90-17 is within 1/2" of a 110/80-19. That should help, shouldn't it? From the info I can find the later bikes had 1.5 degrees more rake than the early bike. I assumed that was because of the different trees. I don't know. Maybe I'll try it and see what it does. I hate to trade such a cool bike for a dual sport just so I can run gravel roads with more confidence. Thanks Guys, Murf | ||
| Panhead_dan |
If all you are talking about is gravel roads then it probably IS just a tire thing. I don't have any problem at all with gravel roads and I'm running the same tires Mr. Buell decided were best for this bike. D616's. | ||
| Ratbuell |
+100 for the D616. Doesn't change the fact it's a street bike getting dirty, as opposed to a dirt bike on pavement. Me? I wouldn't have it any other way. Serious dirt-heads may disagree...but they should buy dirt bikes. I ride my Uly around..."where does this road go...oh, it turns into dirt? OK, lets keep going". Not "let me ride down the highway to some dirt trials or a hillclimb event, compete, then ride home". Have I had it on hiking trails? Yep. Does the front wash out on soft sand and/or gravel and/or mud? Yep. Do I know it's going to? Absolutely. Have I had to push it out of the woods yet? Nope. | ||
| Thejosh |
Didn't buy it for the dirt either, but has been able to traverse the dirt roads I have happened to wonder onto, then again, that was with the Pirelli Scorpions on it. Have since put PR3's on it and now enjoy the corners much better than I did the occasional dirt. | ||
| Ejbeert |
Under stand, I am a hack. I have more skills at falling than any other. But, before I spent any money on the bike I'd spend some money on me. Knowledge is power, Practice is fun. There are plenty of dvds, books, other resources, dirt bike/dirt rider mags., classes for off road riding, bmw--rawhyde. Riderwear house, the aerostitch people, sell some. My stock 06 ulysses is fairly satisfying with dunlop 616 and standard seat. I found that the lower seat lets you move more forward and makes it easier to keep your head over the steering stem. That said ride with your toes on the pegs, toes pointing in, pidgon toed, squeezing the tank/frame with your knees with downward pressure on the pegs; so as to concentrate your weight at the pegs, unweight your butt, but not really off the seat, upper body relaxed, head forward, relaxed grip, lean the bike in turns and weight the opposite peg always look were you want to go. At,then past obsticles,you go were you look. Practice on dirt on street. Make small corrections,let the bike move under you do not fight it, look down the road, not down, constantly moving your eyes up and down side to side, no target fixation; use your upper body, steer with your hips--relax relax. In truth you never know enough or stop learning. Almost any 250 dual sport anything built after 1970 is going to be better than a ulysses, multistrada, bmw, ktm in the dirt. Weight tires geometry. Money on skills would be money well spent. This of course is MHO. By the way atgatt, obey all applicable laws, ride safe, share the road, load pipes lose ground. Listen to people who know what they are talking about; not people like me who fall alot-- have fun. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The biggest thing is probably just going off road when it is dry. On dry dirt, a Uly (or even a Road King) can go an awful lot of places, you just do it slow and careful. When it's wet, you will get stuck very easily on anything other than a bike 260 pounds or less with 1" knobs on the tires. | ||
| Buewulf |
Murf, I find that the front hunts on ALL bikes in gravel, and the more you ride it, the more natural the feeling becomes. I think that it is not only the greater rotational inertia of a big hoop that minimizes that hunting effect, but a narrower tire as well. That is my hypothesis, at least. Not much you can do about either (switching to a 120/90/17 isn't going to achieve anything noticeable IMO), so I would go with tread. The knobbier the better. I don't know if you do enough gravel to warrant TKC80s, but that will have a more substantial result than all the hacks you could do on the bike's geometry combined. I ride gravel all the time, fast and slow, groomed and rutted, dry and wet. I like to stand when the going gets questionable, and that helps A LOT to be able to separate your mass from the bike's, effectively lowering the machine's center of gravity, and using your feet to steer some. | ||
| Arcticktm |
The larger diameter of a 21" front wheel helps by making it easier to roll over obstacles (even just large gravel) instead of having to "climb up" them (which makes it want to deflect more). Rotational Inertia is a measure of how resistant a rotating object is to changes in its rotational speed (slower/faster). It does not impact resistance to moving sideways, like the centrifugal force of the spinning wheel assembly does. A larger, heavier wheel assembly is more resistant to turn in due to a larger centrifugal force for the same vehicle speed. I really feel all this first hand on a dual sport like my old KTM640. I have a 21"/18" and a 17"/17" set of wheels, and the 21 front is much more stable off pavement even with similar tread tires. Of course, the turn in and corner carving with the 17" front is much better, and downright impressive, even if the rider is not! There are other things going on in this switch, too, since moving the 17" front also changes the effective chassis geometry by lowering the front end noticeably. It makes turning quicker yet, and adds to the nervous front end feeling off road. | ||
| Murf2 |
Thanks for the input guys. The 120/90-17 is about the diameter as the 110/80-19 on the Super Tenere. Almost 3 inches taller than a stock tire. I would run a semi-knobbie, so that should help some. I ride gravel a lot. I know how it feels but man I think there is some improvement to be had somewhere. I guess it's time to start experimenting. Thanks again Murf | ||
| Uly_man |
You can get these for a 17 inch rim but not the Uly spec size. I used them on my XTZ750 and they are great road rubber as well. Had the bike up to 120mph and handled, with my suspension mods, real well. On a Uly you will, like with any other rubber/mod, have to wing it and see what works for you.  The Uly is a great bike and, as a single machine, will "out class" most sports (if not for pace) and touring bikes in its price range. It is, as said, not a dirt bike and was never designed to be so. | ||
| Buewulf |
Almost 3 inches taller than a stock tire. You probably already measured, but you may want to make sure you don't rub the chin fairing or anything else behind the tire at any point through the bike'suspension travel. I am not looking at it right now, but memory tells me that the front tire sits mighty close to some stationary hard parts. That extra 1.5" of radius may push you over the limit. I presume the measurement would actually have a little more than that once rolling at a pretty high rate of speed, too. | ||
| Murf2 |
Yeah, I figured the chin fairing and those little mounts would have to go. I'm kinda concerned about clearance as the suspension compresses but I think guys have run them with no problems. Thanks, Murf |
