| Author | Message | ||
     Uly_man |
Whatever you do ask yourself this. Do I really want to do this again? | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Orange, There might be a reason we all go to Al....  BTW AL, I will be calling next week. I need all the stuff to do fork seals on my S2. Figure I may as well do both sides. Seals, wipers, bushings, crush washers, everything. Don't know what the problems is with these forks, I've only got 57,000 miles on them and they are only 12 yers old. they shouldn't be leaking already.....  Brad | ||
| Etennuly |
This stud removal is going just as well as some do. I broke an easy-out just as it should have been removing the remaining stud.  Six hours later.....the easy-out is out. Drilled the hole for the next larger easy-out(the largest that will fit this stud), using a different brand just in case Snap-On made crappy easy-outs.....I broke the larger second one, even after heating the area with a brazing torch! Smooth move ex-lax! This was a machinist's square flute easy out that my dad had left to me. First time one of this set has ever failed me. I did not get it all of the way out before I had to stop working on it for the weekend, but it was breaking to pieces at last attempt. Hopefully it won't take too long to break/drill it out of there. I decided to take out the other stud that was bent. Double nut it, heat it pretty good, and with that, it took all that I could muster with two wrenches length's locked together to break it loose.....and to turn it. It was at the breaking point for the first couple of turns. It seems that someone had put what looks to be blue lock tite on the stud as they screwed them into the head.....that is just not playing fair! As soon as I can get back to this project I will be breaking/picking/ and drilling that easy-out out of the way and carefully working a drill bit and tap to restore the hole. I have done this before with lock tit-ed studs wherein I drilled the hole square and straight with the threads, then heated the remaining coil of the stud's threads pulling them out of the glue with a small pick. Then run a tap to clean up and all is good. Patience is as important as any tool you can throw at this kind of repair.  | ||
| Orangeulius |
I do believe this has become a personal challenge for Vern. My bike is in good hands. Hate that he's putting so much time in it but no doubt it will be in prime shape when it's done! Thanks Vern! I owe you one billion dollars and a Nacho Bell Grande, | ||
| Etennuly |
  And a large iced Diet Coke! | ||
| Hughlysses |
"EZ Out" has to be the least apt name for a product ever. They should be called "Extremely Difficult Out" or "Maybe if You're Damned Lucky It'll Get It Out" or "Most Likely It'll Break Off in the Bolt and Not Get It Out".  | ||
| Etennuly |
Drill, drill, drill, drill, etc. each time a new bit. Sharpen, sharpen, sharpen, sharpen, etc. each bit is good for a few times. Chisel, chisel, chip - a small piece comes out, repeat. Drill, drill, drill, etc, etc.............  | ||
| Tootal |
I feel for you Vern! Drilling steel out of aluminum is such a pain! It's amazing how drill bits always want to take the path of least resistance which means they always head for the aluminum a fast as they can! Doing it by hand is the worst. If I had the engine rotated I'd be tempted to remove the head and put it in a milling machine and use an endmill to plunge it but for most that's not an option. All I can do is drink a beer in your honor!  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Tungsten carbide bullet shaped dremel bits were the best weapon I could find for that battle (fought it twice now). And it leaves little razor sharp tool steel shards all over your body, so you get to enjoy the fun for a couple weeks after the job is over! | ||
| Etennuly |
A note to whom ever was on the side of changing all of the studs, and making Mark feel comfortable with that decision.....even the perfectly good studs. YOU SUCK  . There was absolutely nothing wrong with the front studs. Some people want to err on the side of engineering perfection setting aside common sense and realism. These front studs measured perfectly square with no due signs of stress, but I was over ruled and convinced that they "could" be bad. Bull shit! I should have stuck with my instincts. After two days of carefully picking into the 5/16 rear aluminum head exhaust header stud hole, I was able to save the original threads after spending another $70 on drill bits and dremel bits. Then I was very lucky to get the other rear head stud to screw out, it was bent and turned very hard. I set the new rear studs. I finally got done! It was a tough little pecker of a job. I should have pushed the bike out claiming completion. BUT NOOOOOOooooo! I commence to take out the first of the front studs. I double nutted the front one, put some wrench pressure to it and it turned out several turns, easy at first after breaking loose,then a little over 3/8 of an inch it tightened up. It would not budge without serious wrenching being careful to pull squarely on my Snap-On wrench, then "SNAP!" The broken stud showed no signs of any partial cracks or breakage at all. Just a new fresh twisted break that I did. There was nothing wrong with it at all. I have tried welding a nut on the 1/4" that is sticking out to no avail. The nut would just twist off. I welded a second slightly larger nut on it to the same result. What ever they glued these studs in with is some mean stuff. It seems to build up and lock the bolt as it is turned. Heat does nothing to release it. Nor does penetrating oil. I guess that now that I have wasted my holiday weekend working on this and a couple other projects, I get to spend a couple more days on the good fight. YES I am VENTING! I cannot do this second stud removal right now.....I don't have THAT much patience! | ||
| Etennuly |
Oh.....and no easy-outs will be used in this next procedure!  As hard as it locked when turning it would just easily snap of another one. I'm just going to get some more new titanium drill bits and have at it. This was a stupid idea to try to remove these studs knowing the glue was on the threads.  | ||
| Orangeulius |
Let it sit. It's not that important. This is a battle for another day. I now owe you three billion dollars and two Nacho Bell Grandes. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Get the Jims tool, spend 30 minutes with it, and laugh as they clean right up. | ||
| Etennuly |
Hey Reep, have you ever used Jim's tool? It seems to be missing a few steps from where this set of studs sit. So you put the guide on and drill a 1/4" hole in the center of the stud. Is that when the laughing commences? I have a 5/16" hole with a locked/glued in place stud. What do I do from there? I have proven twice that an easy-out will not turn the stud. Sure this tool will help you drill the center of the stud, but that is not the actual problem I am facing. Upon a closer look the glue that they used to lock the studs in place is some sort of crystalline stuff that looks like the crystals stack up as you rub it against itself. Probably the reason the front stud turned about six turns then locked in solid. I just have to drill center(with or without Jim's $90 help), and pick the threads, then clean them with a tap. | ||
| Uly_man |
Etennuly - Sorry for your problems. The idea of replacing the studs is normal for bikes/cars and they ALWAYS come out easy as fitted dry. It seems that once again HD have used there own thread locking crap on these threads. I know because I had the same problem with my sub frame handles. God knows what this crap is but nothing I tried worked. In fact the more you try the worse it gets. Just drilling out the stud core is a pain because this stuff binds up the drill bit. Nasty, nasty total rubbish. | ||
| Etennuly |
I have replaced literally hundreds of exhaust studs over the years. One company I work for had Ford van box trucks. They were prone to studs breaking, sometimes two or three studs on one aluminum head. It later became a campaign on a warranty program because there were so many trucks affected. We had to remove the exhaust manifold from the truck. On a van things are tight to begin with, but we could remove and install the parts, drill out and clean up a hole in about three hours. These were easy compared to the bike because they did not glue them in. The easy-outs always worked. We never changed ALL of the studs. When a truck or trailer comes into my shop with a couple of wheel studs having the threads messed up we change ONLY the studs that are damaged. I did a front rotor replacement on a car for a customer recently. One of the studs was cross threaded and a nut was messed up. I suggested to the customer to change all of them in the separate hub. At $4 per stud and 1.75 per nut plus an extra half hour of labor he did not want to part with the extra $50. He knew only one was messed up and always made sure that nut had only been on that stud. I see no problem with what he chose to do. If you have an engine or cylinder head torn down in a machine shop to be rebuilt.....change all of the studs. In a real world repair shop you do what needs to be done, and that is usually all that the customer is willing to pay for. If they request changing a whole set of studs, that is what they will get though. | ||
| Etennuly |
Well I finally got back to the stud problem this morning. A few days away from the broken easy-out ordeal was in order. This drill out went perfectly. As I was drilling down the center I could grip a piece of the stud thread and literally unwind it from the head threads. The last half inch of the stud came out in one piece looking like a helicoil, drilled perfectly down the center. The new stud went in without even having to clean the hole with a tap. | ||
| Tootal |
WoooHooo! I love making springs! | ||
| Etennuly |
I like drinking beer better! | ||
| Orangeulius |
On Sunday we will slowly, carefully and meticulously start putting the bike back together. We'll remove it from the work area where it has been gently cocooned for the last few weeks and take it lovingly to the nearby highway............ where we'll ride the freakin snot out of it till something falls off or we drop into a ride induced coma.....whichever comes first. Oh yeah, we gotta plan. | ||
| Etennuly |
 I gotta wash my Uly! It is kinda crusted over from sitting around. I don't mind if it is dirt that is earned from riding, but not from critters crapping and crawling on it.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
 Nice shooting! | ||
| Etennuly |
Thanks! It was such a pretty drill out I have to share a picture of the bottom end of it.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
OK, I'm impressed. Did you manage to do that on bike? Dang! | ||
| Etennuly |
Yeah, it was the easier front one. Eyeball aligned. I usually get them pretty close. The damn guides get in the way of me being able to see if it is straight! The back one that went all ugly with the easy-outs ended pretty much the same way. I had to run a tap in it to clean the last of the shrapnel out of the threads though. This front one just needed blowing out with high pressure air to clean it up. | ||
| Tootal |
I really like drinking beer and watching you make springs!!  | ||
| Hughlysses |
Well, if there's anything to kharma, you should be getting some REALLY good stuff coming your way shortly. | ||
| Etennuly |
Thanks Hugh, but it certainly didn't start today! I went to the furthest reaches of my property with my Jeep this afternoon and rode up on a steep mound. It was so enjoyable that I turned around to go back over and stalled it on top. Then the battery was too low to restart it. Alternator not work to good. After walking back to my shop I got on my tractor to go recover the Jeep and a hydraulic fitting on the front end loader broke and spewed hot hyd fluid all over me. At least the fluid cooled as it sprayed out. Now I have a dead Jeep and a dead tractor and laundry loaded with hydraulic oil. Just another happy day! | ||
| Tootal |
Seriously Vern, you need to start your own reality show, but then again, nobody would believe it!!  | ||
| Etennuly |
Thanks Greg! I would insist that you'd be on the show to! You could be the "here.....hold my beer" guy!  |
