| Author | Message | ||
     Motorbike |
Do any of you have any idea how to decrease the front brake lever travel on my 08 XT? It seems that the lever needs to be pulled back farther to engage the brake then it did when the bike was new. I have recently installed Lyndal Gold pads and about 3 months ago, I flushed and replaced the brake fluid as part of the 2 year maintenance. I have tried bleeding the brakes again since the new pads and am not getting any air bubbles at all. Oh by the way, I also have the adjuster wheel on the brake lever set at #1. I would just like the brakes to engage a little sooner or with a little less movement of the lever. Also, it just seems very slightly spongy, which usually indicates air. I just can't seem to get any more air out of the caliper, if there is any. All ideas are welcome. Thanks! | ||
| Pontlee77 |
on the master cylinder take the lid off and move the lever a few times, let it rest for a bit and do it again, and again until no bubbles come out, some times there are big bubbles and other times with the lever a little bit pulled some really small bubbles come out, once done fill up and try bleeding the caliper again. This is what i did and worked for me. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
Properly bleed the brake lines. | ||
| Uly_man |
Do what Pontlee77 says and also pull back the lever and let it flick back. This will dislodge the small bubbles that seem to get trapped. Do it until you stop seeing anymore bubbles. I have needed to do this before on the Uly. You should get a good lever once done. | ||
| Rwven |
When you changed the pads did you put the anti-rattle clips (I assume that's what they're called) from the stock pads on them? If so take them off, they cause a bit of slop in the interface between the pads and the brake caliper pistons. | ||
| Motorbike |
Skifastbadly, I think I did properly bleed the lines. I have done hundreds of brake jobs on cars and the bleeding procedure on this is no different, according to my Buell Service Manual. I don't see any more bubbles escaping into the clear tubing that I run from the bleeder screw to a jar. Rwven, I did swap the thin metal anti- squeal plates from the old pads to the new ones. I could not find any info on this so I thought they should be installed. Do new Buell factory pads come with these installed already? Any more thoughts on this? Thanks for all your replies so far. I will try a couple of your suggestions as soon as I have time. Take care, Al. | ||
| Rwven |
As I recall they don't fit the Lyndall pads "exactly" right. They go on but don't lock down tightly. I removed them and brake lever feel improved. I went to the 6mm rotor and installation kit with EBC HH pads and it improved even more. | ||
| Mbest |
When you put the bike up for the night, Pump up the front brake and wrap a fat rubber band around the lever to hold the brakes on over night. This does two things for you. If there are any little air bubbles in the line near the master, the line will be "open" to the master and they have a better chance of getting blown back into the reservoir when you release the brake lever. And secondly, there is a little bit of "stiction" and "pullback" from the seals and wipers on the caliper pistons. When the pistons are extended for this longer length of time, it allows them to take a "set" that's a little closer to the rotor. That means less lever travel needed to get the pads onto the rotor for stopping. Also, make sure your rotor isn't bound up or sticking in it's floating mounts. A rotor that "wobbles" around pushes the caliper pistons back and takes extra lever travel to get 'em back out. mike | ||
| Panhead_dan |
Bled and flushed both mine yesterday due to the same lever travel feeling you describe. The nastiest colored fluid you ever saw was hiding in there! The front was why I wanted to do it but the rear had the darkest looking fluid inside. Both are working better than new now. By the way, I took it to a friend's garage who owns a Mighty Vac. It was a really simple, easy job because of this handy tool. | ||
| Uly_man |
"A rotor that "wobbles" around pushes the caliper pistons back" Bad news and the rotor is warped or bad mounts. Always put the clips back on the pads. They are there for a reason. On the XB, unlike some bikes, a fluid change works real well. Do it at about 10k. Easy and cheap. I have done the brake bleed/flush on both my Ulys and it works great. | ||
| Motorbike |
Rwven, the plates seemed to snap back onto the new Lyndals just like they did on the stock pads so I figured it must be right? Still not sure though. Mbest, thanks for the tips. I may try them also. I did check the rotor and it seems to float just fine. I can push at any of the mounting points and the disk moves in then back out on it's own. The way I see it, when the bike is not moving, I should be able to squeeze the lever to get the pads to touch the disk and then release it. The second time I squeeze the lever, it should be firm since the rotor is not turning and could not be pushing the pads back at all. Panhead Dan, I have a Mighty Vac (actually a metal one purchased from Snap-On Dealer but same idea) and I might try that also. I really believe that there must be a tiny bit of air in the system yet. I used to own a Honda Gold Wing and when I drained and refilled the clutch cylinder, I had a heck of a time bleeding it. I tried doing it as the service manual stated but no luck. The manual did not mention turning the bars full lock to the right to get the master cylinder to a level position. I tried that and it worked first time! Took me 2 hours to figure that one out... Thanks! | ||
| Uly_man |
Yes thats the one? | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Bleed at the brake line/master cylinder joint? Messy, but sometimes needed. | ||
| Portero72 |
Another thing to consider is the brake pad itself. I used Lyndall's Gold once, and my first impression was how much farther back I had to pull the lever before any significant braking occurred. My brakes felt just like you described-like they needed a ton of bleeding. Since the stock pads have so much 'initial' bite, the Lyndall's have been referred to as a more 'progressive' pad. The two compounds just have a very different feel. I, personally, did not care for the Lyndall's. | ||
| Pontlee77 |
I run EBC HH and i don't know lindall but here in europe EBC is the most popular and works really good. 4 bikes i have taken care off always have used EBC HH and all of them love the bite of those pads, and depending on the riding style they can last up to close to 10k miles. | ||
| Portero72 |
I, like Pontlee, run EBC HH pads and am always amazed at the immediate response at the lever. | ||
| Motorbike |
Guys, I am still having issues with excessive front brake lever travel on my 08 XT. I have tried most of the suggestions you have given me with the exception of removing the metal anti-rattle clips. I also have not tried bleeding air at the master cylinder because I don't have new seal washers and I don't want to create a leak. I have measured the distance that the very tip of the brake lever ball travels before the lever becomes solid. Mine moves 2 inches until the lever feels firm. Can someone with Lyndal pads please measure this distance on their bike and let me know so I can compare? It is very easy to do. Just swing the plastic hand guard forward and measure how far the highest point of the lever ball moves without putting excessive pressure on it. Please keep in mind that this all started after I replaced the brake fluid and pads. I have bled the caliper at least 3 times and I cannot see any air coming out into the tube, just brake fluid. The adjuster wheel is set on 1. I sure would appreciate your help. Thank you! | ||
| Pontlee77 |
the higher the number on the adjuster the further the lever goes, second taking the MC lid off wont create any seal problem as the seal is the rubber par to the cap and it may just need topping up, and you may see bubbles there as bubbles tend to rise, so doing the caliper is the second part. work from up to down. | ||
| Portero72 |
If you have not already done so, I would suggest swapping the stock pads back in and going for a quick ride. If you have a firmer lever, then you know its just how the Lyndall's feel. | ||
| Teeps |
Motorbike Posted on Saturday, September 15, 2012 Mine moves 2 inches until the lever feels firm. Can someone with Lyndal pads please measure this distance on their bike and let me know so I can compare? The lever on my '06 Uly, with Lyndall Gold pads installed, moves 1" before feeling firm. (about 12k miles on said pads.) On a few bikes I had to force fluid from the caliper to the master, to get all the air out. Another suggestion: Bleed the master cylinder, at the banjo fitting. Then bleed the caliper at the banjo fitting. Then bleed the caliper at the bleed nipple. Loosening and tightening the banjo bolt without replacing the sealing washers, could, but rarely results with a fluid leak. | ||
| Motorbike |
Pontlee77, the seal I was referring to is the banjo bolt washers at the master cylinder, not the top cover. Portero72, I am considering doing just that. Teeps, thank you for that measurement. I think I will try bleeding the system in the order you described. If it leaks, I will just order a couple new washers and have them in time for next summer.  How do you force fluid from the caliper back to the master? That sounds like it might work in this application. I just don't want to make it worse... Thanks to all! | ||
| Pontlee77 |
If you have a torch you can heat up the banjo washers until they go red and put them in water straight after, it makes them recover so you can reuse them, but for the price they cost it's not worth it unless you have to wait to long to get them. | ||
| Teeps |
Motorbike Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - How do you force fluid from the caliper back to the master? Too hard to explain in detail. The short story; apply brake fluid under pressure, (doesn't need much pressure) to the bleed nipple on the caliper. Open the bleed nipple a little. (some fluid may leak around the threads, but that's ok.) With the cap off the master cylinder the fluid should move up hill and fill the reservoir. (the brake lever may need to be jiggled a little.) This: http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/campingart/je ttatech/bleeder/index.htm would work to pressurize fluid. Just apply the brake fluid at the bleed nipple, instead of the master cylinder cap. | ||
| Motorbike |
Teeps, would I be able to do this with a plastic syringe connected to the caliper bleed screw with a vinyl hose? Or would I not build enough pressure to force fluid through the caliper back to the master? Thanks. | ||
| Teeps |
A syringe might work if it has a large enough capacity. Try it if you got it... You can make a pressure vessel from a brake fluid bottle. Only need a couple of psi move the fluid... | ||
| Motorbike |
Okay, I have tried everything listed here to get my front brakes to apply with less lever travel. I am convinced there is no air in the system after bleeding it 10 times, using all the above mentioned methods. I even tried putting the old stock pads back in. I now have about 1.5 inches of travel at the lever end. I guess I will just leave it as is. No use taking it to the dealer.... Thanks to all for the replies. | ||
| Motorbike |
Well, I think I finally solved the excess front brake lever travel issue on my 08 XT. I guess there must have been a very small air bubble in the line and I just could not get it out after trying all the suggested methods. Thank you all for your ideas nonetheless. I gave Al Lighton at American Sport Bike a call and he gave me some ideas to try, and it worked. This guy is a wealth of Buell knowledge and here is what he suggested: 1. Remove the front wheel. 2. Remove brake pads. 3. Place a thin block of wood between brake pistons and pump the lever to extend all 6 pistons slightly beyond their normal travel. (Do not extend the pistons too far or you will be doing a caliper rebuild. If the piston comes out or fluid starts leaking, you went too far.) 4. Spray caliper and pistons with brake cleaner. Carefully clean outside surface of all pistons, all the way around. If you do not do this, fine brake dust will possibly be pushed in past the seals when pistons are pushed back into the bores. (This dust will contaminate your fluid and may also cause the seals to leak.) 5. Carefully tap lightly on caliper to help any air bubbles rise to the top. 6. Tap repeatedly and lightly on the brake lever with your fingers. Just tap, tap, tap several times, allowing lever to snap back to released position. 7. Remove master cylinder cover. 8. Slowly push pistons back into the caliper and watch for air bubbles to come up through the fluid in master cylinder. Use caution doing this because fluid will shoot up like a geyser and then run down the side of the frame. DAMHIK. (I did not actually see a bubble but I was pushing the pistons back in before I started watching the master cylinder.) 9. Re-install the front wheel and pads. 10. Pump the lever to move pads out to the disk. 11. Enjoy having good solid brake lever feel, the way it should be. Thanks to all of you and to Al Lighton at American Sport Bike. I will be placing an order to him for some new front and rear pads soon. Thanks! |
