| Author | Message | ||
     Skifastbadly |
Jumped on the Uly today to fetch a twelve pack of adult fermented barley based beverage,and my Signal Dynamics LED voltage indicator is blinking green. Well, green is good, I guess, but blinking? Not so much. Noticed it stopped blinking and glowed steady green at idle but began blinking again when the RPMs climbed. Pulled up behind a truck and noticed no headlight...hmmm.... So, I flipped on the high beam and the blinking went away and the headlight happily glowed. For a short time, then the blinking started again and when I got home the high beam was blown again. Consulting the LED manual at home the blinking green indicates voltage above 15.25V. (If it helps any, the LED is wired to the front outlet.) So, this all indicates to me that I've puked my VR (it's an 08 by the way). Before I order a new one, anything else I'm missing? And can we confim that the old VR from my 07 won't work because the wiring is all different on an 08? Thanks, youse guys. | ||
| Portero72 |
I had an unruly voltage indicator once-loose battery terminals. Simple, but freaked me out for a second or two... | ||
| Hughlysses |
That definitely sounds like a bad VR. It'd be worthwhile to check grounds and connections to make you don't something goofy going on with that. IIRC that goofs up the "reference voltage" for the VR and can make it overcharge like that. The 08 definitely has a different VR from your 07 (3-phase stator on the 07; single phase stator on the 08). At least you can sell your 07 VR to offset the cost of the 08 replacement. | ||
| Reepicheep |
If it is high it's got to be the VR, the VR wiring, or a bad ground. Low could be the stator. | ||
| Desertjeff |
Yes except high can also be the stator and regulator. My bike failed to start when I checked the charging system it produced about 12.1 volts until about 4500 RPM where it spiked to 17 or 18 volts. I checked the stator and found it was shorted to ground. Its a good idea to check the stator before you replace the regulator as I suspect a burned up stator might wreck your new regulator. | ||
| Djohnk |
I'm not sure about fit, but if you still have the stator from the 07 Uly, you might check it out when you have the 08 engine apart, you might be able to put it in? If so, you could use the 07 VR. If you end up having to replace the 07 VR, I recommend this one, the Shindengen FH020AA: http://roadstercycle.com/index.html The guy ships fast, and it supposedly is easier on the stator, and is more robust than the stock VR. I got one of the cheaper kits from him, and wired it directly to the battery with a circuit breaker, and was even able to bypass and remove troublesome 77 connector! (Message edited by djohnk on August 14, 2012) | ||
| Tootal |
+1 Desertjeff. I blew a new VR because my stator was bad causing the VR to go. Do all the test in the book to your stator before you put on a new VR. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
Good advice on the stator. Thanks. I'll run through that. Covered in the service manual, I imagine. | ||
| Thesmaz |
I lost a VR, battery, fan and a couple of relays due to a bad stator. One of the phases went and was over charging the system. Without the correct voltage coming from the stator the VR cant do it's job correctly. I lost the battery due to trying to get it back to my home in Italy after a trip to Greece which is where it started acting up as verified by my voltage monitor. I got within 52 kms before the battery popped! Luckily I still had my stock battery at the house and the wife brought it to me. The damn bike was doing all kind of strange stuff during that ride home! Run all of the checks in the Service manual and I'd start with the stator checks, it'll take you about 5 mins to know its gone. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
Hey guys, Regarding these 'checks', I have the service manual, but it refers to a different manual, the electronics diagnostics manual. So I need that? There doesn't seem to be any information in the standard service manual. Is it easy to explain? Thanks | ||
| Griffmeister |
Being a two wire stator, it only has one "leg", so if you lost a leg you lost everything. Now for testing. Might as well disconnect both VR leads and check for corrosion. I believe this was what killed my last VR. First test, ground one lead of your ohmmeter and with the other lead check each stator wire. There should be no continuity to ground. If there is, then your stator is shorted. Second test, put your ohmmeter across the two stator wires. You should read 0.1-0.3 ohms. Higher resistance means a damaged stator although personally I might allow a slightly larger range due to accuracy or lack of with some meters. Last test, keep your meter on the stator leads but switch to AC volts. Run engine at 2000 rpm, stator output should be 40-56 vac. There is no regulation here, higher rpm's will give you higher voltage. What you're looking for is low voltage. If all these check out then you have a bad VR or connection issues. Here again just monitor voltage at the battery but that can be hard to do, the spikes can be sudden and too quick for the eye. Of course if you're an electrical genius and have unlimited funds..... | ||
| Skifastbadly |
Thanks Griff. I am not an electrical genius, but I will be able to follow your very clear instructions. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
My normal experience online consists of arguing with morons (that is, people who disagree with me) on various political, economic, or religious topics. This place however, is an island of sanity, intelligence, and helpfulness. EDIT: Well, crap. I thought everything had passed the test but since I am not an electrical engineer or even an electrician, I went out to check a second time and what I found is that both lines from the stator indicate connectivity. That is to say, on my voltmeter, when I set it to the Omega sign it shows a value of ten but both lines, when I ground the voltmeter, show 0. This, if I understand it correctly, indicates a grounded stator. Perusal of the service manual indicates this is going to be a LOT of dicking around so if anyone sees that I'm doing something wrong this would be a great time to check in. Has anyone their own stator replacement? I am reasonably handy but I also don't want to get into this deeper than I should. (Message edited by skifastbadly on August 18, 2012) | ||
| Desertjeff |
The 06 07 and i believe 08 Ulysses have 38 amp 3 phase charging systems latter models have 2 phase 30 charging systems. Mine had one leg shorted to ground so 2 phases measured a bit higher resistance too ground than the third phase did. Bad news is any continuity between the 2 or 3 legs of the stator wiring to ground indicates a short and a burned up stator. Continuity between phase's or legs is correct. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
Well I just read my post and even I don't understand it so let me try that again. The plug for the stator has two connectors. The digital voltmeter, when i set it for resistance testing and nothing's touching, shows a value of ten...units. I dunno, Ohms? Anyway, I put one probe in one of the holes and the other on the oil cooler and it drops to zero, both holes. Weirdly, when I did the test the first time, I grounded on the cooling fins on the engine and it showed no connectivity. Why the heck would that be? The head's gotta be connected to ground right? I mean, doesn't the spark plug depend on that? Also, I'm further confused why if the stator is shorted out, it was showing voltage exactly as Griff's test indicated it should. I would think if it was shorted out, it wouldn't do that. (Message edited by skifastbadly on August 18, 2012) | ||
| Desertjeff |
and Ski it sounds like your stator has passed the test no continuity to ground is good. Each leg of the stator has a common beginning. Not grounded but connected to each other so continuity to each other is correct also. The next test is to start and run the motor with a voltmeter on the setting to read AC volts and ck the voltage from each stator wire to ground. probably be around 28 volts at 4000 RPMs or so. Remember the stator produces AC voltage the regulator-rectifier converts it to DC. I am replacing the stator on my bike right now. First I had to remove the shifter and the clutch cover then I removed the primary drive. This required a bar to lock the clutch and compensator sprocket so I could remove two very tight nuts. One from the end of the crank and the second from the end of the transmission output shaft. A long breaker bar and a couple odd sized sockets were required. Its not been to hard but now it looks like the starter will have to come off to get the stator wiring out. No big deal but a lot of little deals in a row. I just ordered a City Electric stator and a City Electric series regulator from Jack at http://roadstercycle.com/index.html and I am really looking forward to putting it all back together. Like I said though if I read your post correctly your stator is good. | ||
| Djohnk |
I changed my stator a couple of months ago. Here's the how-to I used in conjunction with the service manual: http://www.buellxb.com/Buell-XB-Forum/Do-It-Yourse lf-Buell-Mods/How-toDIY-XB-stator-replacement I Used 1/2 of a brass door hinge from Lowes when I broke loose the big nuts over the stator and clutch (instead of purchasing that removal tool). Also, I seem to remember the socket sizes being incorrect for stator and clutch basket nuts. Anyway, I took my time and it wasn't too hard - except for one thing: adjusting the clutch at the end. I was tired and I didn't follow the service manual directions exactly. I worked on it for a couple of hours, I even drained the primary oil and removed the primary cover again because I thought I had put it back together wrong. I slept on it, and the following morning followed the clutch adjustment directions carefully and got the clutch working perfectly in about 20 minutes. Also, I re-used my primary cover gasket. It seems to be a pretty good gasket and hasn't leaked. | ||
| Desertjeff |
door hinge sounds like a great idea I cut a piece of stainless plate 3/16 inch thick and about 1 1/2 wide and about 4 1/8 inch's long polished it on a bench sander and made a beautiful tool that I hope to never use again. Can you tell me John will I have to pull the starter off to get to the wiring? | ||
| Skifastbadly |
DJohnk, I looked over your instructions and my heart palpations have ceased. You make it look almost easy. One question, you indicate in your write up that you didn't need the 'tool' if you had someone to engage the rear brake, did I misinterpret that? | ||
| Griffmeister |
Be careful what you read before you get too deep. To reconfirm, the 08 is a single phase stator, that means only two wires. The earlier bikes are three phase. At 4000 rpm you are going to have way more than 28 vac. Remember, the manual says to test at 2000 rpm and at that speed you will already have around 50 vac. Grounds can be difficult to establish for a variety of reasons. Best to remove the seat and go directly to either the main frame ground or battery ground. Take your readings a couple of times to confirm consistency, use the alligator clip on your test leads if you have them or really push the point into your contact area if you don't. I had thought on more than one occasion that I had low voltage or some other problem when in reality it was just a bad contact with my test lead. Back to testing, set meter to ohm scale first. For checking shorts, one lead should always be on ground, use the other lead to check the two stator wires one at a time. If its digital, most meters will say OL, if analog then it should read infinity. The next test I would skip unless you have a really good idea what scale your meter is on. You say the reading is 10, I'm thinking that your meter is on auto-range and you are actually reading the desired spec of 0.10 ohms across the two leads. You also say that you have the proper voltage which is about 50 vac at 2000 rpm. I think if you go back and confirm that there is no short to ground then your stator is fine. I guessing that you did inspect the plugs from the VR to be sure that they were clean. Also make sure that the main frame ground (on the inside of the frame next to the fuse box) is clean and tight and the battery leads as well. If all these are good then you're looking at a VR. Remember, no matter how easy something looks to replace, it's always easier when that's not the problem. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Also, you want the locking bar to be of softer material than the sprocket teeth. So I would get a scrap piece of aluminum or brass, not stainless. Take the time to lean to use your meter as well, and understand how to set it and how to read it. | ||
| Tootal |
Actually stainless is much softer than hardened sprocket teeth. It might be tough to work with as far as drilling and machining but that's because it work hardens so easily. Hit it with a hammer and you'll see how soft it is. I've had guys want me to make them stainless lawn mower blades because they think they will last forever but it's really a terrible steel for that. | ||
| Uly_man |
100%. The trouble is that many have no idea at ALL of what they are talking about. With the stator and VR. Use a quality meter that you can zero the leads. Follow the HD numbers and check the plug connections. Thats it and simple as. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
I have always found that I get in the most trouble when I have an unshakable faith in an assumption that later turns out to be wrong. So at the risk of annoying some of the more electronics literate, a couple of more questions. I assume that a continuity test is the same thing as a resistance test. That is to say, the lower the resistance, the higher the continuity. So when I set the meter (which if it matters is a Sperry DM-4400A) to the "Ohm" symbol, the meter puts out current on the red probe and reads it coming in on the black probe and the difference is the resistance. So, when the probes are touching nothing but air, the display reads 10.00K Ohm with the "1" blinking. As there cannot be any current flowing I assume that the blinking 1 indicates that it's maxed out and there is infinite resistance. Now, as an experiment I hold one probe in each hand, between the finger and thumb. And it reads 1.34 M Ohms. So I assume that means there's some current running through my body. Hey, anything for science right? And if I touch the probes to each other, or alternately, touch them to a metal object like a screwdriver, I get a reading of 0, at the M Ohm (milli, right?) range, which would indicate zero resistance, or perfect continuity. Now back to the stator. I assume the stator is designed to be perfectly insulated from the bike. The wires should be producing AC current as a function of the speed of rotation of the magnets of the rotor around the wires on the stator, and delivering that current through the two wires. Therefore, if I put a probe of the voltmeter in either of the holes, and ground the other probe to the bike, whether the negative battery terminal or any piece of metal, I should ideally get the 'infinite resistance' or blinking 10.00. But that's not what I get. I get 0, indicating perfect continuity. Which should indicate a shorted stator. Not good news. But like I said at the beginning, since I'm new at this, a couple of questions arise. Like, how could there be 'no' resistance? The current from the little 9V battery in the voltmeter has to go through the body of the bike. No resistance at all? That seems strange. And if the stator is shorted, how am I getting voltage readings at all in step #3 of Griff's procedure? Wouldn't a 'perfectly' sorted stator produce 0 volts? And finally, how does a shorted stator screw up a voltage regulator? Is it that the voltage is erratic? What am I missing? | ||
| Djohnk |
Skifast, if I remember correctly, I didn't have someone hold the brake, but I suggest you get something to wedge in there like that "tool" even if you have someone hold it. Those nuts are pretty tight (make sure you play close attention to the directions as far as which way loosens also). I think I left the bike in first gear. Sorry I don't remember the exact details, it's been a while since I did it. Here's a picture of the hinge I used, I think it cost a whole $5:  Looking at it closely it's brass colored, it might not be real brass - but it didn't do any damage that I could see. I guess you could put some duct tape on the ends if you are really worried about that. | ||
| Griffmeister |
What you are saying sounds right and yet the results sound wrong. I think we are all overlooking something. You may benefit from a second set of eyes. Any other members in your area? | ||
| Skifastbadly |
OK I was informed that I shouldn't see any current when touching the probes, that means I had to change the range. So I did. Still showing continuity. Really strange that it would be shorted and still put out the proper voltage with the engine running. Also, the batter reads 12.3V across the terminals while hooked up and nothing running. When I started the bike and let it idle, reading across the battery was 12.4 or so. When I rev'ed it, it went all the way to over 17 before I backed off. So what do we know that we didn't know yesterday? | ||
| Desertjeff |
A short to ground from either or both stator leads condemns the stator. No further testing is required. The voltage test should only be performed if the stator passes the first test. | ||
| Reepicheep |
If you went up to 17 volts, I think your voltage regulator is toast. There is a good chance that fried your battery as well. Your description of using the meter is confusing though. Measure the resistance of each pin to each other pin, and each pin to ground, with the stator unplugged. Do it on the lowest range your meter supports (10 ohm range or something). Pin to pin should be a few ohms, pin to ground should be infinite. If not, your stator is dead. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
There's a good reason that I prefer analog multi-meters. |
