| Author | Message | ||
     Lynrd |
While I love the slogan - I'd like it more if it read: "We don't care how they do it in Japan - Or Milwaukee". | ||
| Wreaster27 |
"We don't care how THEY do it". | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Actually, we do. If it werent for Milwaukee we wouldnt have the motors we have in our bikes. Wise up. | ||
| Hootowl |
I think the HD lump was exactly what Buell wanted. He was using HD mills before HD made him use HD mills. The tubers wouldn't have the appeal that they do if they sounded like sewing machines. It is too bad that HD wouldn't change with the times, or embrace the direction Buell wanted to move his products in. I'm thankful they severed the relationship. Onward and upward. So in that regard, no, I'm pretty sure EBR doesn't care how they do it in Milwaukee. But I'm pretty sure he cares how they do it in East Troy, right down the road. | ||
| Lynrd |
Ok, so.. "We don't care how they do it in Japan, and are no longer much concerned how they do it in Milwaukee, either". | ||
| Barrick09 |
lol!!!! ^^^^ i love it Lynrd! | ||
| Preybird1 |
I care how they do it in japan and America and many other countries. I love bikes of all sorts. Hardly davidstone made there bed and there gonna lay in it! My 2 favorite bikes are my japanese Kaw1 ZX10r and my Buell lightning.      I like my "jap crap" And my Buell. Say what you will but i like many kinds of bikes. I have never really like harleys they are not my type of motorcycle so im good there. | ||
| Mbsween |
Well put Preybird, I like them all. Well maybe not cruisers so much..... | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"Hardly davidstone " huh? | ||
| Lynrd |
So it's sort of a joke, but not really... It's not a judgement on the bikes ...it's the engineering, manufacturing and business practices. My opinion: Back when HD did the buy back from AMF, they actually really embraced Japanese manufacturing practices and techniques (Read "Well Made in America" for the story.) In essence, HD cared a great deal about how they did it in Japan, employing LEAN manufacturing, JIT inventory, and all that 80s business school stuff. Part of the "Continuous Improvement" methodology of these practices is redesign of products to make them faster/cheaper to manufacture. This is how you end up with things like the fantastic, Erik designed FXR being replaced by the ill handling Dyna Glide....Cheaper to build, but can command the same price point as the model it replaced. I think of "How they do it in Japan" is a mass production design and manufacturing process that is counter to the idea of one guy or team assembling the entire machine. So there! | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
"...made there bed and there gonna lay in it! The English-speaking part of me just died little bit inside. They're building their bikes over there.  | ||
| Greg_cifu |
Very romantic and probably makes the Harley apologists happy but, I doubt it's even close to true. He went to a lot of trouble to develop the RW750 because he wanted a competitive engine. He was also very patriotic and wanted a true, American motorcycle. That left him one engine: the lightest of the HD turds available at the time. From 1986-2002, Buell fire-glazed and polished that turd to a shine even Harley didn't recognize. The Buell line is what SHOULD have happened to the Sportster but didn't. It met a lot of his design objectives and did create a brilliant motorcycle but, it's not what he would have chosen if given a clean sheet of paper and enough budget. | ||
| Hootowl |
The RW was a two stroke made for racing. It was 'violently' powerful, and nowhere near streetable. When Buell started making street bikes, he chose the HD power plant. These are facts, not romantic notions. | ||
| Greg_cifu |
So set the WABAC machine to 1985, you're Erik: what engine choices do you have besides the Sportster? He picked the XR1000 because it was the highest performing thing he could get his hands on that was made in America. Didn't anybody buy Court & Dave's book?  | ||
| Hootowl |
Nothing you have said invalidates the facts I have stated. Erik chose the HD engine. HD didn't force it on him, which was the point I was making in my HD-crowd-appeasing post you quoted. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Yeah, he bought the motors before HD invested in him. So, like Hoot stated, HD didnt force it on him. And I like how someone on the tuber section complains of how crap the motor is...if its such a turd then why did you buy one? | ||
| Chauly |
"if its such a turd then why did you buy one?" It's like you can't change your mind after you buy it? How about build quality not being up to modern standards in 1997? Fun to ride, until it won't let you? Just sayin'... | ||
| Greg_cifu |
Duplicate (damn phone) (Message edited by Greg_cifu on August 07, 2012) | ||
| Greg_cifu |
I didn't buy one, I bought FOUR.  I bought them because they are brilliant MOTORCYCLES and almost despite the engine. The engines are relatively low maintenance compared to something like a Ducati and at this stage of my life, that's very appealing. You may resume your worship of the motor company that shut down Buell. | ||
| Kyrocket |
IIRC wasn't Erik a HD engineer and privateer racer in the first place? My buddies '89 FXR has some amazing similarities to my '99 X1. If he was working for and racing those motors why wouldn't he use them? He had access to them, probably on the cheap and was well aware of how they worked, and knew what they needed to really make them work well. And like Preybird, I like my Vulcan (All 125 CI of it) just swell.  | ||
| Hootowl |
Erik was an engineer there, yes. Designing frames I believe. HD did Erik a favor by shutting him down. Do you think there'd be two AMA superbike teams riding his bikes placing consistently in the top 10 if he was still employed by HD? I don't. The poo-pooing of HD is getting old. I've accepted the decision and moved on. Seems like the folks at EBR have too. Onward and upward. | ||
| Manxman500tt |
dyna replaced the fxr not the other way around and yes its a piss poor replacement | ||
| Coxster |
just picked up the Cycle world Barracuda issue. Reading all the nonsense HD pulled on engine development alone ( VR and B-last ) it's amazing there wasn't a corporate meltdown. Of course CEO Wandell (sp?) didn't dig the 'adrenaline market' either. Glad I have an extinct M2. I don't ride Japanese, don't want to, probably never will, but I'm glad every bike on the road is there to help cars learn we are here | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
for the record, i have a kaw too (beside my two buells) 1125r s3 klx140l | ||
| Littlebuggles |
"We don't care how they do it in Japan, and are no longer much concerned how they do it in Milwaukee, either" Gonna have to get a sticker made, that there is catchy if a bit wordy. Maybe a t-shirt instead... hmmm... | ||
| Thejosh |
Kyrocket, your Vulcan start makin a "Ticking" noise on the front cylinder yet? Just fixed my Dads VN2000, had a bad lash adjuster on the front rocker box. | ||
| Kyrocket |
NO, but thanks, I'll be paranoid on my four day trip now  How many miles did it have on it? I got a beauty of a deal on this one, just happened to run across it on Craigslist looking for something for someone else. | ||
| 46champ |
dyna replaced the fxr not the other way around and yes its a piss poor replacement That is probably true and yes I owned a FXR for 17 years but most of the dealers had a hell of a time trying to sell them, and they did try. When the dyna's came out they immediately sold better. | ||
| Lynrd |
That's not entirely accurate. At the time of the Dyna introduction, there was actually a bike "shortage" , caused more than anything HDs refusal to add another shift to the line - the shortage allowed HD and the dealers to sell through and pre-sell inventory. Anyone else remember waiting lists and such? I was a parts manager at a dealership at the time and remember it well. Every dealer sold every bike, every year. I remember having a base '93 FXR super glide on the floor - the one that had a MSRP <$9995. It was vivid black, and looked like a Sportster. It also rode great. I watched prospects literally climb over that thing to get to the $20,000 (after dealer pack of bolting every conceivable geegaw on the P&A wall) Heritage Softail on the other side of it.. That super glide did take a little longer to sell, but sell it did. Other FXRs, particularly FXRTs and FXRS-Convs, had no problem selling to the right riders. Response was identical to the 2 FXDLs nearby, and they took as long or longer to sell because they, too "Looked like a Sportster" but we sold those too. It was a different time, with the "Shortage" selling the bikes was not all that hard, the challenge was getting as much for each one that you could because you only got a small allocation from the factory. By the way, both the Superglides and those FXDLs sold faster than the one lone RS1200 we had on the floor - or the Moto Guzzi Daytona for that matter. If Harley sold more Dynas, it is because they BUILT more Dyna's...which they could do because the Dyna is far easier to assemble. At the time of the demise of the FXR, any dealer who wasn't selling through his inventory about three months into the model year would have had to have been actively discouraging buyers...nothing else would explain it. | ||
| Hogluvr |
I remember that time well, at that time the only thing on the floors of any dealership in my area were a few Sportsters. That's when I bought my '94 FXLR, ordered it in the summer of '93. I was lucky, it only took a few months to get it. After I met my then-wife and she couldn't get comfortable on it, we ordered an Ultra-Classic and were put on a two-year waiting list! The Ultra is long gone, never did care much for it, was to bulky and top-heavy but was great on a long trip. Still have my Low Rider Custom, last year they made the FXR, my cousin's dyna rode a little better because of the long wheelbase but I'd run rings around him in the corners, one of the best-handling HDs I've ever ridden, thanks in part to Erik!  | ||
| Manxman500tt |
Take a nice big sweeping turn in any dyna and that frames short comings become very apparent. Ive had three fxr's fxrssp fxrp fxlr all great bikes |
