| Author |
Message |
    
Johnboy777
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 07:37 pm: | 
|
""Out of all the car and other engines currently running in the world that use a serpentine belt, one or more of them have a tensioner that will work on a Uly with little or no modification. It will work without failing, just like it does on the car. We just need to find it.
By the way, it's probably $30.
By the way #2, none of them uses a coil spring like on a FST.""
This is certainly one of the most ignorant statements I have heard in a long time.
There is an enormous difference between the amount of load incurred with the Ulysses drive belt sys. vs. a simple serpentine belt tensioner on the front of an engine.
The various pulleys on the front of an engine are not in flux (motion) relative to each other. Nor do they generate the dynamic loads of an articulated motorcycle susp.
There is also a difference between the load put on the Ulysses drive sys. vs. other XB's.
This is due to the greater susp. travel on the Ulysses. This greater travel creates greater loads on all drive components. Buell was aware of this, and said as much in one of their Fuell articles relating to the Ulysses drive belt.
Originally, the drive sys. was designed for a bike with much less travel than the Ulysses incorporates.
In my opinion (and with no sound evidence to support it) I think our rear bering failures and the attempt by Buell to remedy the situation with a new rear wheel (e.g., the 2010 wheel) is a result of the susp. travel exceeding its inherent design limits.
But what do I know?
John |
Panhead_dan
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 08:54 pm: |
|
I apologize to Trojan for what read like I was slamming his product. That was not my intention at all. I was just posting an idea I've had for years and who knows, if it matures into something that works, he is in the best position to take it and run with it.
As I recall and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the belt tension problem which is caused by the Uly's suspension a difference of .007"?
How is a serpentine tensioner so unsuited to the slack side of a drive belt?
What's wrong with a little out of the box thinking or brainstorming to solve a known problem? It was not intended as a slam at all.
Again, I apologize sincerely to Trojan. I commend you for offering this fine product to us. |
Djohnk
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 10:18 pm: |
|
"please don't make up stupid scare stories"
?? what story did I make up ??
Everything I said came from my research when I considered buying your product. I am simply showing my findings.
That picture is, or is it not your product? |
Spotts
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2012 - 09:55 am: |
|
My wife and I press the weight limit of our 09 xt, without luggage. Even with the spring dialed all the way, we got the "belt bind" sound and feel, especially on wallowing curves.
Installed the tensioner and the feel and sound has disappeared. Regardless of the bickering on longevity and design, it was worth the money for me. |
Jomartijr
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2012 - 11:34 am: |
|
When I bought my 2007 Uly, used, I did a lot of research to pre-emptively deal with problems before they surfaced. And one issue I kept reading about was broken belts and failed pulley side wheel bearings so I lessened the belt tension with a Free Spirits tensioner.
Mine is working nicely. No issues and the belt is no longer under undue stress as evidenced by an easy to roll around bike and no belt squeaking. So I count it as money well spent. But that's just my opinion. |
Rdkingryder
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2012 - 12:01 pm: |
|
Is the FST all aluminum? Is the pivot bolt riding on just the surface of the bracket or are there needle bearings? Just curious about this product as the original bracket seems made of sturdy metal and since it never has to pivot, would never wear out. |
Arry
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2012 - 03:11 pm: |
|
101.67UK price. How much are these in US dollars, with shipping...? Anyone bought one recently? |
Britchri10
| | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2012 - 06:45 am: |
|
Ball park $163.00.I dunno about shipping but if it's too much PM me. I can have my bro receive it in the UK & forward it here as cheaply as possible.
Chris C |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2012 - 02:01 pm: |
|
I think the belts (and the rear bearings) last longer in the US, than here in the UK, because you do many more "line" miles.
In the UK we are using the gearbox more and the swing arm is flexing more because of our roads and traffic systems.
I will give you one such example? In a 6 mile run to work I once counted 74 traffic lights. Then there are the people crossings, roundabouts and speed humps of which there must be about 150. All of which puts a big strain on even a chain system. Try to look at this way. A manual car clutch plate (here in town) is only good for 30k and a gearbox not much more. Most cars, clutch plates/gearbox, will last 90k plus in normal use. It is why I always use a auto car now in London.
The FST will cost more in the US but you pay a LOT less (about 25%) for belts than we do.
There is a whole bunch of things effecting belts. One is that my 06 bike belt would get tighter as the engine got hotter
IE the bike got longer so must have put a bigger strain on the belt. My 2010 bike runs MUCH cooler and seems like less of a problem. We will see though because I intend to ride the 2010 bike like any other bike I have had now? Once it is hot it will be 6k rpm in all gears. It is going to have to "put up or shut up", LOL. |
Rdkingryder
| | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2012 - 05:23 pm: |
|
Wonder if the other XB's or even the XT belts last longer due to less travel than the X's? |
Pontlee77
| | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2012 - 07:54 pm: |
|
my bike has so far 53.000 kilometers and the belt is the original one,it has some cracks on the outside, but nothing major and seem not to get any worse, i have a new spare belt at home, but don't see the need to change it.
Uly_Man ride as you wish, but i know some one who rides on the + 6 k revs and the bike is always with all sort of problems, the bike is much happier on the 3-5 k revs, why need to go up to 6K revs? the best torque is not there. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2012 - 09:09 am: |
|
Everything I said came from my research when I considered buying your product. I am simply showing my findings.
That picture is, or is it not your product?
I think your 'research' is flawed simply because it is based on internet forum posts by the few people who have experienced problems with these parts, not the 99.9% of customers who are quite happy and don't post on the net. The one in the picture has failed, yes, but you do not know the background, useage, mileage or many other factors tat have made this happen.
As I have stated before, I have seen failures caused by people strippng and rebuilding these incorrectly, overtightening the pivot bolt which causes failure. I have also seen them so corroded that they could not move due to sheer lack of maintenance/cleaning. None of the internet posters seem to mention any of this though. This is NOT a failure of the product but of the person rebuilding it.
101.67UK price. How much are these in US dollars, with shipping...? Anyone bought one recently?
Price is around US$157 at current rates. Shipping by Fedex is approx GBP15 (US$24 approx).
Wonder if the other XB's or even the XT belts last longer due to less travel than the X's
No. Suspension travel isn't the issue. The main cause of belt failure is shock loading, which occurs when you ride over a 'sharp' bump or depression such as speed bumps, railway crossings etc and which loads/unloads the suspension very quickly causing the load on the belt to increase dramatically and break the belt. The sprung tensioner basically just damps this shock load enough to lessen the chance of breakage. It also puts less load on the belt throughout the suspension travel, and therefore less strain on associated bearings etc. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2012 - 11:00 am: |
|
Interesting. I'm picturing how the "shock loading" would be a factor.
So steady state, the crank pulley is turning the belt which is turning the wheel.
Now, you hit a bump. The entire rear wheel moves upwards, effectively trying to spin that front pulley forward faster. So the motor is trying to spin that pulley clockwise, and now the rear wheel is acting like a giant lever to push that pulley forward even faster. The belt would necessarily need to see that associated increased tension along the bottom of the belt, and the maximum tension increase would be limited to that required to speed up the motor rotation when the bump hit.
I can kinda see that. But to help with the situation, the tensioner would have to have enough play such that the likely distance of travel of the rear suspension can be absorbed by the spring without imparting that force to the wheel. The suspension travels... what... maybe 5 inches? How many degrees of rotation of the crank would that add? How much distance would the tensioner need to compress to be able to absorb all of it?
And how could it introduce more tension then necessary to increase the speed of the rotating motor? I guess that would be complicated by what gear you are in. And the torque would also be limited by rear wheel traction, too much and the tire would just slip, though as it is under compression at that moment the tire would likely be sticking REALLY well.
Fun to think about. |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2012 - 02:23 pm: |
|
"Price is around US$157 at current rates. Shipping by Fedex is approx GBP15 (US$24 approx)." Thats a lot cheaper than the UK price as we have to pay 20% tax on top.
The site that the post picture comes from states it was on the bike when purchased. The colour of the finish on it also looks very odd. Who can tell what has been done to it in the past.
I do not know if it is true but I have heard that the "arc of travel" of the swing arm on the XB is not perfect. It is said the belt tightens slightly more as the wheel goes up. If that was the case the longer swing arm of a Uly would make it worse. Any thoughts on this?
There is a whole bunch of things effecting belt life. Also things like worn engine mounts and the front isolator. Hard/bad wheelies. Stone damage. Worn/damaged rear pulley. Worn wheel or other bearings. And worse of all "ham fisted" tire fitters who I also do not think help with the bearing issue either. |
Arcticktm
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2012 - 12:07 pm: |
|
If you really want to know what happens to your belt during suspension travel, just put it on a stand, unbolt the shock, and move it through the travel and feel what happens. Or do it on the ground if you can compress the shock enough on your own.
As for perfect arc of travel, not sure what perfect means, but I am guessing someone meant that the belt tension is not constant due to the distance between the front pulley and rear pulley changing as the swingarm moves.
This is the case in any belt or chain drive system unless the front pulley centerline is also the swingarm pivot centerline. BMW did this on their short lived dirt bike, but it is very uncommon. ATK used to have a more elaborate design to try and avoid chain tensioning from interfering with suspension action.
Pretty much every other design in chain/belt world just considers this factor in the design and deals with it.
That's why you have to pay attention to chain slack adjustment in chain drive bikes, especially long travel dirt bikes. |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2012 - 01:14 pm: |
|
"As for perfect arc of travel, not sure what perfect means, but I am guessing someone meant that the belt tension is not constant due to the distance between the front pulley and rear pulley changing as the swingarm moves.
This is the case in any belt or chain drive system unless the front pulley centerline is also the swingarm pivot centerline."
Yes that is how I thought it out. In which case a FST would help balance the tension on the belt through suspension travel. I have had two belts go the EXACT same way with broken fibers from within the belt. They both had no damage either. |
|
