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Court
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 12:27 pm: | 
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Don't get me started, I am mired in predecessor/sucessor events today in a dire effort to prove a powerplant can be completed in time to avert a problem in NYC next summer!
But...hey, this is where my heart is...a couple QUICK comments.
>>>>>In short, HD either does not know how to, or cares to, promote Buell as a legitimate line of motorcycle.
IT's a bit of both...a function of the "when you are a hammer every problem looks like a nail" sort of thinking. Psychologists and United States Marine Corps Sharpshooter Instructors call it "negative tranferrance of knowledge". It is the concept that sometimes it's easier to train someone who knows n othing as opposed to something. In HD's case, they DO mean well, but are using "tools" (marketing techniques) developed and devoted to a far differnet demographic segment.
The problem is compiunded by the NIH syndrome in that any effort at constructive criticsim may be perceived as "dissing" HD's success...they can get quite nasty.
I had a lengthy exchange with a former HD Chairman who DID get it and my thinking was that Buells interests and HD's interests may at time be divergent, that alone does not make them in conflict.
In addition, the folks in the Buell marketing events and such are HD folks temporarily assigned to Buell who will, after this tour of duty, go back to HD duties. My letter said something like "HD folks assigned to the Buell limb of the tree are unlikely to be eager to saw (think/create innovative solutions) but instead are likely to be motivated to return safely to the tree in 18 months."
There are good reasons to believe this is getting better and better reasons to beleive the pace of improvement will be accelerating.
>>>I dont think my XB says HD on it anywhere(i may be wrong)
This has been a VERY touchy subject over time and the first S2's made actually had a differnet medallion on the dash than the ones they eventually were shipped from Woodcrafters with. HD folks had new ones with the (HPVS 1203 Free Breathing Thunderbolt Adreneline Injected Whatever.....) slapped on them. The "originals" were to have been collected and destroyed. Not all were. 
Again....look for some neat and innovative progress in this area. In the "I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine" world there is a presumption of some degree of parity. That is showing signs of happening as Buell develops things of great value to offer HD.
>>>I would love a VR1000 street racer too..
That is prima facie evidence of an underdeveloped sense of understanding what the VR-1000 motor was and was not. You should have seen the 6 page technical paper sent to Mr. Willie G. Davidson by a fellow who had acutally BOUGHT one. The VR motor was a better idea than it was motor. There are reasons, can you spell E-G-O, for this. It was more valuable in terms of its ability to produce a very crowd motivating V-Twin signature sound as it came down the front staight at Daytona (I confess, I enjoyed it as much as anyone) than it was podium finishes.
Scott Russell's pit stop, to change a tire, pretty much let the world see inside the World of Mr. Scheibe's Genesis.
Of course, I could be wrong......
Court
P.S. - someojne who is not "on the clock" today...spellcheck that mess and repost it...
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José_quiñones
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 01:00 pm: |
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1. It's American
2. It has access to a very good dealer network
3. Sportster engine parts availability
4. Low enough seat height that I could handle it.
5. Lower "HD Engine" based insurance costs (this has since changed)
6. Belt Drive
7. Easy maintenance (except having to buy and carry both metric and English tools under the seat)
8. The fact that I like to go to HOG/BRAG events
9. The fact that you can talk to the person whose name is on the tank at some of these events
I overlooked reliability, refinement and outright performance concerns that I had for these "intangible" benefits mentioned above and bought a 1999 S3T instead of an Aprilia Falco or Triumph Sprint ST that I was looking at at the time.
I finally finish paying off My S3 next month. I love it, but I don't trust it. I would love to get another Buell S3 Type bike, but Buell is currently producing "toys", not "Transportation". I ride to work everyday, I need "transportation" not a "toy".
I need to carry stuff, decent weather protection, comfortable ergonomics for TWO, "no excuses" performance, reliability and refinement. I'm willing to pay more because I want it made HERE, but it does not matter at this point if it says Buell, HD, Victory, Gurney or Fischer on the tank. |
José_quiñones
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 01:07 pm: |
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I agree, Court, the VR1000 was more a MARKETING effort than it was a Racing Effort.
It did help the AMA sell tickets to the races. Do they even have HOG hospitality areas at AMA races anymore?
I'm sure the AMA would love to see more HD riders inside the Speedway at Daytona than outside. |
Xbduck
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 01:29 pm: |
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I bought mine because I liked the way it fit me. I also like the style. It also helped a great deal that it is American. Some will say that it has parts for all over the world so you can't really say that. Well the 'Big Three' car makers here in the U.S. claim to be American even though the stickers on the window give you a different truth. I work in the textile business and right now, where it is from is making a great impression on me as to if I buy it.
I would still buy a Buell even if HD wasn't part of the equation. I do however think it is nice that they are. I just wish more effort was put into the representation of the Buell line (marketing, sales, service,accessories etc.). |
Wyckedflesh
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 01:50 pm: |
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Das i know exactly what your talking about. Its not the HD enthusiasts at the level that we as Buell enthusiasts go about our rides and treat our bikes. Its the ones that bought an HD as a status symbol. The ones that think they are too pretty to ride. The ones that would not have been caught dead on a motorcycle until HD managed to tame the Civic heart and it became OK to be a "bad boy", as long as you were a bad boy on an HD. Its the ones who only ride their bikes based on the fact they jotted "take bike to event today" on their calander. I know there are "metric riders" out there that do the same things but its the HD riders of that mindset that stand out the most. They are the most visible and are the ones that both hurt and help the industry. They hurt it by turning it into a money hungry fashion show they help by dumping millions into the industry every year. I can actually remember when I could have bought a sportster for the same price as a FZR or even a first Generation Ninja then in a matter of 5 years it all changed. Prices on HD's went up because the demand for a status symbol rose in the public eye.
IMHO YMMV yatta yatta yatta... |
Fuzz331
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 02:27 pm: |
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While rambling earlier I forgot to mention American Made.
Yea, some of the parts are going to be imported, but the design comes from america,
Eric Buell for starters. He followed threw on the American dream.
The fact that the HD v-twin is 100 year old American idea is just cool....Did"nt they start out in a small shed in Wisconsin too?
Add the engineering.
Without this combination of factors I probably would'nt have noticed a Buell.
Fuzz |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 02:40 pm: |
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>>>Some will say that it has parts for all over the world so you can't really say that.
Please toss that thinking into the pot with "ignition advances" and "hihg protein horse feed" to go faster.
This, dear friend, is a WORLD ECONOMY. I am oin a race team that gains it's strength from having members from 8 countries. Over half the people I collaborate with today will be outside the US...and, of course, the ONE DANE who sneaked in!
It's not where you buy the parts, it's the engineering and care that goes into the assembly.
For what's it's worth, I'll give you a "peek" inside Buell. They King of BUYING Parts is an All-American West Point Graduate about 9'-4" (at least in my eyes).
The KING of QUALITY is a native of India, one of the smartest, kindest, quietest folks who ever took a parent chosen bride (part of the religion of his country) and he is one of the best things we've ever brought into this county.
I'd go on, but when I get to the part about the Mexican National who played such a role in the engineering of your bike and had eschewed pony tails and Pulp Fiction for children, dancing and a Mini-Cooper...even *I* have to sit down.
Let me leave you with this....I may poke and prod the SYSTEMS at Buell, never the people. The future of Buell has never shown more brightly.
Erik done hired well. |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 02:41 pm: |
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Hey...if you want to know just HOW SMART Buell is, look at Dave Gess and I...the two they threw out!!!!
(that's a joke..if you are new here) |
Buckinfubba
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 02:45 pm: |
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I wouldn't care if Buell was owned by the Kia car company. the bikes rock my big fat world. |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 05:20 pm: |
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HD had NOTHING to do with my decision. I was "surfing the web" back in '96 (you know, when you could still surf, before everyone was so damn hung up on keeping people from leaving their site so they can take in all the damn advertising) I happened across an article on the 96S1. I Immediately went to the Buell web site and sat transfixed on the Red Snap S1 I found there. I was in lust. I'm not sure why. I was in the Navy at the time living in San Diego, supporting a wife, kids, and a roommate that never paid his rent. I made 28K a year back then. There was no way I could afford a new motorcycle. At the time, there was still a link on the web site that let you send email to Erik. I did. I told him how much I liked it, and that while I WANTED one, I couldn't afford it, but that it was most definitely in my future. Asked him about different engines and if he had any plans to use something other than the sportster motor after things got going. The next day I got a canned blurb from "The Company" thanking me for my interest in their motorcycles. Hmm. Oh well. Then a week later, I got an email from Erik. That was when I KNEW I would have one. The owner of the company took the time to respond to me. All kinds of cool. Anyway, he said that the sportster motor still had a lot of life left in it, and that they weren't really stressing it, just letting it breathe better. I don't have the email anymore (damnit) so I don't remember the particulars, but from what I can remember, he gave no indication that he was giving any thought to going out on his own for engines. Three years later, I bought my X1. I still have a soft spot for the 96S1 though. Red Snap of course.
Jeff
edited by hootowl on January 10, 2004 |
Xbduck
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 05:51 pm: |
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Court,
Sorry I haven't done the reading assignment yet, and yes I know it is a WORLD ECONOMY. Most of what we make here in Waynesboro VA goes overseas (Lycra* by Dupont, for now, we've been sold). I just like to think of my neighbors when I can. I do also want to say some of the smartest people I have known didn't start out here in the U.S., some still aren't in the U.S.
I must say though once I saw the XB Lighting I had to have one. It cost me a Sportster for the wife to get it though. |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 05:57 pm: |
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>>>>It cost me a Sportster for the wife to get it though.
Last lesson for the day. That Sportster didn't "cost" you. The bike, for the wife, was an INVESTMENT.
Trust me on this one......
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Hardluckxb
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 06:40 pm: |
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The two things that sold me on Buell are technology and tradition.
Erik and his team have established a creative and innovative engineering environment developing amazing technology. Harley Davidson enables them to deliver this product to the consumer while adding over 100 years of American motorcycling tradition.
Riders ride Buells.
Buell has delivered an impressive streetfighter that is everything I need and nothing I do not. This includes, simple compact design, usable power and excellent handling. Buells possess the raw beauty and performance features of Italian and Japanese bikes and give it an American heart and soul.
I do not want a bike that wears a plastic dress and loves to rev up and whine…save the drama for the track! I need a naked torque machine that rumbles through the streets and twisties.
If there were no Buell, I would probably ride a Harley.
But I also drive Cadillacs, smoke Lucky Strikes and enjoy drinking PBR while listening to jazz, punk rock and hip hop just to remind myself how damn good it is to be an American. |
Spyder12s
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 07:01 pm: |
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Being of a "younger" generation than most that I see here I am a honda man in my heart but like every one else here seems to agree the Buell seems to offer something different that the imports dont have yet the imports have things that the Buells dont, That being the reliable touring market. I speak from my past bike being a VFR I love that bike for the 300mi + rides nothing that I have ridden has come close to it the V4 power and smoothness great handling for its size and stature but the Buell for me is just pure FUN in all aspects looks, handling, power delivery just pure Fun where it counts. Most bikes have there place and in the days or 2300cc cruisers and 200mph out of the box imports the true riders need something like this a bike that is built for the streets and back roads ...So in closing this bike that I now proudly own the XB witch in its self is a controversy, is my favorite by far to date from a riding for riding point of view . |
Davegess
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 10:04 pm: |
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I don't give a rip if they are associated with HD or not I like the bikes and the people.
HOWEVER, without HD Buell does not exist, it never would have been born. Boeing would be building some very very cool airplanes however.
Even beyond hiring Erik over 20 years ago HD provided much needed stuff during the early days before they actually bought and provided money.
Sure they do some stuff wrong but overall HD is a positive for Buell.
DAve |
Fatpony
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 09:54 am: |
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Hate to keep this one draggingon, but..... If I hadn't been in a HD shop having my Superglide serviced I'd never bought my FIRST Buell. I was burning time looking over all the Road Kings and such, finally made it over to couple of big Buells they had. I must have stared, squated, and stared a little TOO long, because the owner ( not a salesman or any of the eye candy gals they all have now days) came out of his office and ask if I wanted to ride. After a 40 mile test ride he had the hook set, and I left that day with a freshly serviced Superglide and a 2002 X-1W. About 13 months later, I was back, this time buying a new FL GATOR BLUE XB9R. I still have all three, RODE over 12000 miles last year (real wet summer here this year) and they live in my living room next to the big screen. Ah the bliss of being a single 49 year old. But back to the question, if it wern't for THE COMPANY, I would have never lived the 2 wheel MY 2 wheeled orgasm. Thanks for listening. |
Austinrider
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 10:57 am: |
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Quote ">>>>It cost me a Sportster for the wife to get it though
Wait a sec.. you traded your sportster to get a wife? What were you thinking man?
Sorry, Im going to go back and finish reading now, just had to chime that in. |
Snowdave
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 01:11 pm: |
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Absolutely. The HD tie was if anything, a deterrant. I even bought the 7 year warranty to mitigate the fact that the bike was tied to HD. Although, when looking for an American Made sportbike, options are VERY limited. This was not a necessity, but always my first choice. |
Bud
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 02:58 pm: |
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Is it a hd or a buell ?,
I know fore sure that 3 friends and me where not going to the 100e party in hamburg for hogs
Just for the buell party,
And I could not believe my eyes when mr. Buell him self walked out the door to enjoy the crowd en the music, sipping a beverage 
And he didn’t blink an eye when the waiting buelligans got notice that “the man” was there,
No rush , every body got the chance to talk to him.
Yep. It was worth the trip and the night sleeping in the car ( all hotels were full )
It maybe is a Hd company product, but I prefer to call it a Buell
Gr,B
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José_quiñones
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 05:16 pm: |
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Spent some quality time at the Buell Booth at the Washington DC IMS Show this weekend. The staff was very friendly and seemed to know their stuff, and everybody was having a blast getting on the "leaning" bikes and getting their pictures taken. They kept running out of Polaroid film, however.
The question that I heard more than once from "potential customers" was "What happens to the frame if you Crash?". Their answer was that that they have tested the frame extensively and they won't leak fuel if you crash.
Anyway, they were handing out free Stickers, which was great, but the sticker itself was interesting, especially considering this thread.
Like I mentioned earlier, the #1 reason that I bought my Buell was because it was American. This sticker tells me that the HD/Buell Marketing folks seem to think this is a strong selling point and want to make it clear where Buell is from:
Does this sticker say that there is an American Motorcycle Company called Buell, or that Buell is an American Motorcycle Company? There is a difference.
FYI, Victory also uses this approach, "The New American Motorcycle." |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 05:32 pm: |
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Jose':
Excellent report...I am ALL OVER that sticker!
Now I have to track some down!
By the way...advise for Victory...don't bill yourself as "The World Class Ameican"...it's a sticky wicket.
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Bads1
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 05:41 pm: |
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I have one of those stickers for well over 4 months.I f I remember right I got it from my dealer. |
José_quiñones
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 06:30 pm: |
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Bads1, they were new to me!
Court, I have some I can mail to you, email me your address HERE. |
Turnagain
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 08:33 pm: |
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this individual apparently thought it important that folks knew who the bike's pedigree is.
José, save me one too. 
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Rocketman
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 09:25 pm: |
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It might be an American motorcycle but a Brit designed it
Rocket
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Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 03:59 pm: |
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 Rocket, huh?
Steve,
I'd say that person felt insecure not having pasted a Harley-Davidson sticker on his Buell.  |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 08:11 pm: |
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Rocket, huh?
Not confused at all. The XB was designed by a Brit.
Rocket
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Blublak
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 10:06 pm: |
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I'm lost now.. I thought the XB was dreamed up by Erik Buell and his team of merry maniacs... Now Rocket is saying someone in Britain is the designer? Are you saying Buell stole the design? Or did he just 'Gates' it from the poor bloke(ette)?
Please clarify..
Later. |
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