| Author | Message | ||
     Firstbuell |
interesting..... http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/ama-wsbk-ti me-comparison-miller-motorsports-park/ | ||
| Reepicheep |
Very cool. | ||
| Trojan |
Much as I hate to be the party pooper, these comparisons are about as useful as tits on a fish. Very different tyres, Very different machine specs and WSB has much longer races (which has a knock on effect on tyre life and performance etc), so comparing WSB QP2 times with AMA qualifying is almost entirely useless in terms of race pace and potential positions. Add to that the more aggressive nature of WSB and depth of field compared to AMA and it makes these things pretty abstract, but at least it keeps journalists in work. A few years ago there was a similar headline here in the UK about Ian Hislop (I think) lapping Donington faster on a WSB machine than the MotoGP lap record in the same year. However when you looked into overall race times he would have finished a long long way behind the leading GP riders. Maybe a better way would be to compare start,mid and end of race lap times between AMA/WSB competitors using similar tyre compounds and then try to extrapolate that over a full WSB race distance? Even then it would be full of holes adn not much moe than guesswork, but better than trying to make decisions on based purely QP times which in themselves are meanigless when it comes to race performance (Look at max Biaggis QP versus race performance at Misano for instance). The only way we will ever know how close the domestic superbikes (smf that includes AMA/BSB/IDM/CEV etc) are compared to WSB is to get all the organisers to agree a set of standard rules and to make all the bikes and tyres the same spec. This would allow local rider to race in WSB home races or as wild cards elsewhere, and nmore importantly would make comparisons such as this at least marginally useful. Unfortunately that as likely to happen as me winning the Argentine Malvinas lottery, so until that happens we will have to continue making up pointless tables like this and arguing over the fictitious results  | ||
| Jaimec |
I just remember the first year (after a ten year absence) MotoGP came back to Laguna Seca, and ran alongside AMA SBK. Mat Mladin's record-setting pole lap would've put him 17th on the MotoGP grid. That was eye-opening! Of course, those were the days of the fire-breathing 990s, and the electronics weren't nearly as sophisticated as they are today. | ||
| Xb1125r |
the only way to happen is if AMA becomes bigger then SBK and AMA dictates to it. AMA needs to extend to south america and make it a continent sport. plenty of talent down south. and now with Chile and Argentina buiding motogp approved race tracks. things are only going to get better. | ||
| Trojan |
the only way to happen is if AMA becomes bigger then SBK and AMA dictates to it. I'll have some of what you are smoking  Mat Mladin's record-setting pole lap would've put him 17th on the MotoGP grid. That was eye-opening! Actually it happens quite often if you compare WSB and MotoGP times, but is still meaningless because of tyres, race distance etc etc. On Sunday the fastest race lap in Moto2 would have put Pol Espagaro in amongst the MotoGP grid ahead of most of the CRT bikes, giving away 400cc, carbon brakes, a whole load of electronics and with 'only' 128bhp to play with (compared to 230+ for MotoGP). Makes you wonder if a cash strapped MotoGP CRT team couldn't try a Moto2 bike at slower tracks instead of the CRT. Maybe they would do better | ||
| Simond |
.....it's that kind of thinking that led to the 400 twins being introduced in the 500 days  . Ignoring the usual stuff about tyres, race distances etc..... the main problem was that while a more powerful bike can overtake at will down the straights, a faster cornering bike can't drive through a more powerful bike that is parked on the apex of a corner. It made qualifying interesting I suppose! | ||
| Trojan |
I remember when the original 990 GP bikes were introduced, and everyone said they would be pretty equal with the old 500 2 strokes, Jezza McWilliams took pole on the Aprilia twin and we all thought the 990's would be blitzed on a twisty track. Not a chance. As soon as they got on the straight they ran away with that and every other GP race Just goes to show that lap times in isolation are not a guarantee of being competitive in a race situation. | ||
| Blake |
Socialist race rules don't belong in the top levels of racing. Let them build it and race it as they wish. | ||
| Davegess |
Socialist race rules | ||
| Firstbuell |
no, I think that Blake meant to say, "SoCal-ish" | ||
| Trojan |
Socialist race rules don't belong in the top levels of racing. Let them build it and race it as they wish. Then we would have no racing, simple. Only a few of the big factories would be able to afford to build race bikes, if at all. Racing would be very very boring indeed when the factory bike was lapping everyone in the field like Agostini used to do on the only factory bike in GP racing (MV Agusta) during part of the 1960's. You need to have a set of rules in all forms of sport, be it basketball or bike racing. In fact I know of no racing worldwide that is truly 'open' in nature. Without rules racing would become no more than a joke. | ||
| Blake |
I don't buy it. Easy solution. Add weight. Too simple. Tires already limit performance. There just isn't much more to gain from increased engine performance. Lighterweight and new chassis tech are key. A turbo 2-stroke 500cc is not cost prohibitive. | ||
| Trojan |
You forget that most rules now are there for safety reasons and designed to limit top speeds, not increase them. A lightweight 2 stroke turbo would be much faster than current GP bikes in the most important area, corner speed. This is what they got wrong when going to 800cc and they need to avoid at all costs making rules that make cornering faster. How many people fall off in a straight line after all? Making a tyre that limits performance would be easy (as F1 and WSB have done already) but may not be popular with tyre manufacturer or bike manufacturers. Adding weight is another avenue that Dorna are going down already (much to the annoyance of Honda..again) and the minimum weight will increase again in 2015 I think. I think they need to have a radical rethink on exactly who they want in the championship and how to achieve that. if they want major factory teams then they need to dump CRT and make the factories supply 20 bikes each, simple. If they cannot do that then dump the factory teams and run everyone on a CRT bike regardless of factory/privateer status. Either way will bring beter racing, but doing nothing and allowing it to continue down the current indecisive path will only damage the series much more long term. | ||
| Davegess |
safety reasons that is the key, the technology exists to build bikes that would lap 20-30% faster than current MotoGP bikes; you would need all new racetracks to run these bikes with any measure of safety. Not sure you could build a track where anyone would actually want to sit and watch, the spectators would have to be so far way that TV would be better. I loved the old Can-Am series and the early 500 two strokes where awesome; I also loved the old days at Indy where lots of new ideas got tried out, BUT I don't think you could run a decent race series under those rules today. | ||
| Trojan |
I know that everyone thinks that the old 500 2 stroke days were the best etc etc etc buthere is fact from this weekends GP at Silverstone. The leading Moto2 bikes (with just 125-130bhp) lapped faster than the 500 GP bikes managed in all their years at Silverstone. Chassis technolgy has improved so much since then that more power is not necessary to go any faster. In fact most GP bikes now have their power capped or restricted from the maximum they could conceivably make if engine life and safety were not a factor. I think before long we will see even more rules (in addition to rev limits and spec ECU's) to slow engines in MotoGP rather than any freeing up of power rules, simply to keep the top speeds at a reasonable level. | ||
| Xb1125r |
I don't Trojan , since i was not around.lol its called technology. the 1000 fo 10 years will make todays stuff like a joke | ||
| Trojan |
its called technology. the 1000 fo 10 years will make todays stuff like a joke Don't bet on it. In race terms there will be plenty of 'dumbing down' to make sure that in 10 years they are no faster than they are today.In fact they will probably be slower (or electric!). Future GP bikes will have more stringent engine life rules, electronic caps and all sorts of measures to make sure they cannot be too fast, so we may have already witnessed the fastest MotoGP bikes in terms of pure lap times. | ||
| Don_sabo |
What is more surprising to me then May & Eslick is that Josh Hayes is only 12th. | ||
| Davegess |
It is always a tough battle to keep the bikes and cars from going faster than the race tracks can handle. These days it is not power so much as it is cornering speeds. The faster you go around corners the more energy is unleashed in a crash. If you raced old 1960's bike on modern circuits with the modern rider gear the incidents of serious rider injury would be almost non-existent. |
