| Author | Message | ||
     Imaposer2 |
Hey guys, After just entering the world of Buell last weekend with the purchase of my '96 S1, and after reading and researching a few things, I'm putting together a list of things to address ASAP. I travel a lot for work during the week so pretty much my wrenching and riding time is restricted to weekends. I'm trying to avoid unnecessary delays by combining "projects". For example, if I'm going to drain the primary and remove the cover to replace the adjuster with the later beefier version, then I want to do everything that needs to be done inside the primary case while there. And by avoiding delays I mean that I want to make sure that I have ALL the parts AND tools on hand when I begin the "project". My plan is to put together a comprehensive list and start ordering and/or buying everything I'll need so that when the time arrives (rainy weekend)I can use my time efficiently and not realize at the last minute that I overlooked that one little gasket or seal, or that one special little tool. I started this thread to ask for help from the more experienced guys, figuring that if I overlook something I'll need someone or several someones will catch it and point out my ignorance before I learn it the hard way and waste my time. I'd hate to have time set aside to do one of these "projects" just to discover that I'll have to order another part or tool and loose my next weekend's riding time just to finish the project that could have been done while it wasn't a good day for riding. If there are any comprehensive "How-to" thread covering any of these things, feel free to point me to them. I do have the Service Manual in electronic PDF form as well as a hard copy of the parts manual. I've been reading from several different sources, including here on BadWeB and also things that members here have already recommended. Ok, so here's my plan so far: (A) I've had several people recommend changing the front exhaust mount for the newer Y type and I see that American Sport Bike (American Sport Bike) has those. So, is there anything I need to know about this seemingly straight forward project? I know it might be fiddly, but other than that, is it any more involved than R&R the case through bolts, and exchanging one mount, and assorted hardware, for the other? (B) Ok, then there is the infamous oil pump pinion gear. I plan to drop the oil pump and attempt to inspect the gear for wear. Provided all looks well and I feel comfortable leaving it alone, what parts might I need to put things back like there were? I’m assuming that an oil pump gasket is it? Of course if I feel that a new gear is in order then that’ll evolve into a larger project and will probably warrant a new thread to make sure I don’t screw that up. But, for now I’ll just concentrate on the inspection process. Now, I come to the stuff inside the primary cover. (C) The first thing I was told to do was the chain adjuster upgrade. Looking through the manual that looks fairly straight forward. For this alone I have the following parts: 1. Primary chain adjuster: New (2001+) Beefier Chain Tensioner: Part number 39975-90A Primary Case Gasket #34955-89A Shifter shaft Oil Seal #37101-84 And no special tools, right? Anything more that I need on hand or need to know for this? (D) But then I learned about the “Grenade plate”. Is this a common enough issue to warrant getting it out of the clutch pack? And if so, is it simply a matter of replacing it with two new steel plates and one new friction plate? If so, then is it ok to just order those three plates and put them in with what’s already in there or should I go ahead and spring for a complete set of matching new plates. In my limited riding time on the new bike I wouldn’t otherwise think there was any need for a new clutch. It doesn’t slip, the engagement seems to be early in lever travel and it seems to engage and disengage smoothly. Then there is the matter of tools for the clutch work. The manual calls for a special clutch spring compressor tool and American Sport Bike sells a version of $57, saying not to even attempt it without the tool. Is this a worthwhile investment or is there a less expensive work-around for dealing with the clutch spring pressure? And then there is the primary locking bar. Again, American Sport Bike has one for 30 bucks and the same question applies to it as the spring compressor. I can get a length of bar stock for much less than 30 bucks and I do have an angle grinder if they’re as simple to make as they look. But, I don’t want to screw up something expensive trying to save a few $$ either. But, if anyone has a cheaper work-around, I’d love to hear it. (E) Then I read something somewhere about a “Detent Plate Upgrade” HD Part Number 33656-90A + new retaining spring (11019) that is supposed to be redesigned and improve shifting. I will say that I was actually pretty pleasantly surprised with the shifting quality of my bike when I rode it. So, I’m not sure it’s worth the extra trouble to replace it. But, if anyone has any experience I’d love to hear about it. And if it is worthwhile, what other parts or tools would I need to accomplish this swap? Ok, so that’s what I have so far. So, what I’m asking from the members here is to review the “projects” I have listed above and feel free to recommend any others that you think worthwhile “while I’m in there” or that absolutely should be done to prevent future issues. Then, feel free to add any necessary parts or tools that I’ll need, or even just something worth having to make life easier. I know it’s bound to happen, but I’d like to avoid wasting half my Saturday running all over town trying to find that one certain wrench, or worse yet, having to order something and wait a week for it to arrive so I can finish what I started. Like last Sunday after I got the bike home on Sat night. Going over the bike I discovered that the rear brake caliper wasn’t installed correctly and I didn’t want to ride it that way. But, as luck would have it I didn’t have a 36mm socket for the rear axle nut. I was lucky that my really small local Sears had one, but I don’t usually get that lucky. After just getting the bike last weekend I would like to get all the “necessary” preventative upgrades done as soon as possible to hopefully prevent some catastrophic issues. And one other thing for now… Other than the parts that American Sport Bike has listed, is there anywhere to order HD parts online, or am I better served just going to my local dealer? Things like the clutch plates I have listed above, and the shifter detent plate, and various gaskets and seals. I’m sure replies will prompt more questions but that’s the best way I know of to learn things like this, so thanks to everyone that wants to help a Buell noob out  | ||
| Bigslug |
I'll take a stab at a few; On the exhaust mount, make sure you support the rear of the bike, as the bolts also hold the front shock mount. The clutch compressor tool I made myself, and the locking bar I used a piece of 1-1/2" x 1/4" aluminum, I think around 4" long. Also, a brass door hinge works, just make sure it is solid brass, not plated steel. The shifter plate I personally would not change. My S2 has the old plate, while the M2 has the updated one, and I wish the M2 shifted as well as the S2. If you are happy with how it shifts, I would leave it alone. Last, I read your description of your S1 on ADVrider. You nailed the tuber perfectly, if anyone asks me why I ride tubers, I will C&P your post, thanks! Mike | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Bigslug, Thanks or the tip about the front shock mount bolt. I probably would have caught that, but who knows? Now I'll be sure to not screw that part up at least. Do you have any details or pictures of the clutch spring compressor you made? Yeah, I tend to be a cheap ass and will make a tool myself if I can. And the part about the brass door hinge... Could you elaborate about that? I can't visualize how to use a door hinge to lock the primary gears, although I do think I remember hearing something about that before. And yeah, I was a little dubious of the detent plate too. So far, even though I've always heard how badly HD engines shifted, I've been pleasantly surprised at how well this bike shifts. I have no complaints, so I guess the old adage that says, "If it ain't broke don't ef with it", applies. And about my description... I just ride for the thrill of it, and I really enjoy a visceral "something" from a bike. I'm not interested in track performance really, and I'm not out to impress anyone. I just want to have FUN!  And this bike feels ALIVE and performs well too. That makes me smile. I took a demo ride on a new Yamaha Super Tenere and an FZ8. While both of them were very nice and very competent bikes, they left me feeling cold. I got off just feeling sorta, "meh". I didn't feel that way at all when I took a short test ride on the S1 before buying it. It was more like  | ||
| Bigslug |
The clutch tool was made from 4"od tubing,1-1/4" long. Then I welded a piece of 1-1/2"x1\4" flat stock with a hole in the middle, and used a fine thread nut to compress the clutch spring. This will show using a door hinge to lock up the primary; http://www.hdforums.com/forum/attachments/sportste r-models/216188d1320865959-possible-bad-stator-loo king-for-verification-img_0170.jpg Last, unless to P.O. mentioned changing the crank seal, I would consider doing it while you have the primary apart. You need a special tool to get the depth of the seal correct, there are a few diagrams here on the badweb if you have access to a lathe and want to make one. If not, PM me and I will let you borrow the one that I made. Hope this helps, any other questions, let me know, Mike | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Awesome! Now I understand the use of the door hinge. Simple enough and cheaper than the $30 bar American Sport Bike sells. The clutch tool also sounds easy enough. Would you happen to have any pics of that? And how critical is the 4" od measurement? I know I can scrounge up some 4" pipe, but that's 4" ID, so the OD would be closer to 4.375 - 4.5". As far as the crank seal goes, is that an item that is a known problem, or just one of those "while I'm in here" things? Hadn't planned to tear into anything in the primary other than the clutch to remove the spring plate, and of course replace the primary adjuster, but if it's warranted then I suppose I should consider the seal as well. Trouble is, I don't have access to a lathe so making a tool such as that is not possible for me. | ||
| Eshardball |
Imaposer2, Give me your address and I'll loan you the one I made if you wish. I had a thread on the home made tool project if you want to duplicate it. I changed my detent plate and noticed some improvement but if your feels good, I would agree to leave it alone | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Eshardball, Thanks for the offer! Just so I'll know, which tool is it your offering to loan, the clutch spring compressor, or the crank seal seat tool? I see from your profile that your crank seal blew at 23K. Mine has a tick over 20K now.  Of course I realize that crank seals are more dependent on crank overpressure and other things than strictly miles. But, as Bigslug sugggested, perhaps it would be a good idea to pop a fresh one in there while I have it that far down, huh? I really appreciate both of your guys offering to loan me the tools. I still have to decide on my complete course of action, and then get all of my parts together, and THEN find the time to tackle the projects. So, it may be a few weeks before I'm ready, and I hate to hold onto someone else's tools too long. But, if you guys don't mind helping a fellow rider out... well, I may just take you both up on the offers once I have all this stuff figured out and get ready for them.  I've only ridden this bike around 80 miles so far, but in that time I felt like the bike shifted just fine. Maybe I'm just not that discerning and maybe it could be improved, but I don't have any complaints so I'll probably just leave well enough alone on that one. | ||
| Bigslug |
Imaposer2, The crank seal is definitely a known problem. If you search "crank seal" or "Trans vent puking oil" you will have pages of threads where others are replacing the seal. Also, if your seal is original it is a single lip seal, and the replacement is a double lip. I had the trans out of the M2 this winter and even though the seal was replaced a couple of years ago I replaced it again just to be sure. I went through the same thing you are going through when I bought my S2. I bought it in the fall and it spent the winter on the stand getting all of the known problems changed. Crank seal, grenade plate, primary chain tensioner, rocker box gaskets, etc. But I have put approx. 12000 trouble free miles on it since so I am glad I did. A couple of weeks apart should give you plenty of trouble free miles, IMHO. My spring compressor looks similar to this, just more home made. http://www.rockheadbikes.com/v/vspfiles/photos/496 157-2T.jpg If you need the tools, just let me know. Mike | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Thanks guys! Working on my parts order now... Is this the correct replacement for the crank seal? http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-p rodshow/17173.html From their site's product description: "17173 - Seal, Flywheel Output Shaft, XL 95-02 Seal, Flywheel Output shaft. This is the updated seal. The old seal was prone to failure, causing your crankcase oil to fill your primary and overflow the primary vent tube."  Oh yeah, one more thing... I stopped by Home Depot tonight for something else entirely, but while there I looked at the door hinges. Which size do I need? 3", 3 1/2", or 4"? (Message edited by Imaposer2 on May 21, 2012) | ||
| Eshardball |
My clutch spring compressor is no where as nice as Big Slug's but is no less effective. You'll know when its time to change the crank seal but if your in there doing the grenade plate you might as well take care of it. The grenade plate is the only real ticking time bomb other than the oil pump drive gear. I did my grenade plate because I was in there doing the crank seal | ||
| Jolly |
I keep thinking I'm about done with my s1, then I get back into this place, and wonder if I will ever be done, for instance, suddenly I am wondering what the grenade plate is and what the?..... I do not have as much experience wrenching on these things as some of the folks on here so my input is measured against the pros. my thoughts, If your going to check the the oil pump pinion drive gear, it can be done by dropping the oil pump, if you have to replace it youre easily into a couple of jobs that you could or should do at once. I recently dropped my cam cover to send it out to have it undercut - cool points in the looks dept- no performance gain at all..but if your dropping it to replace the oil pump gear.... to drop the cam cover the rocker box assemblies have to come off to take the pressure off the pushrods..might as well replace them with the correct metal gaskets and the xb9 rocker box conversion that changes how they vent (out the top instead of out the side at the carb support mount bolts)..made a big difference in my bike, it sounded and felt like it was running smoother since it could breathe better...or I have an excellent imagination....so an oil pump drive gear turns into a cam cover undercut (leave the lower rear pin), and a rocker box conversion and a breather/catch can install with a gasket upgrade. kind of a knee bone connected to shin bone type of thing. I also have an X-1 (and the proud new owner of a 2002 S3t that I bought from a guy on here which makes 3 tubers in the garage) that I had the chain tensioner grenade on me and it got lodged in the transmission...ouch...damn....so I replaced the transmission plate with a heavy duty one and have since done it to my s1. quipy stuff....I am a big fan of the combined LED tail lights that you can buy on ebay for 79.00 they are bright and work well, have on on my S1, my X1 and its the same light on a Moto guzzi 1100 sport so I put one on that bike as well....looks and works great! very bright and not a single issue. Hate the stock levers, I bought ASV CNC levers, work great, feel great in your hands, I recommend them. I put those on all three Buells and my Triumph Thruxton. the Y mount for exhaust is a key change, I had a header break in half on my x1 and on my s1...damn again...its not a matter of "if" but "when" if its not mounted up with the "correct" pieces. anyway, I agree totally with the "its just got to talk to me" approach. I'm over 40 (barely?) and ride for me, my favorite bikes in my garage are the ones that do it with personality, my S1 and my 97 Moto Guzzi 1100 Sport..pure personality! |
