| Author | Message | ||
     Bads1 |
I bet XB1125R has a picture of Stoner in his wallet. Bro hes riding a bike that has been developed and if he rode the yamaha it would be the same. Stoner is awesome but on equal equipment that has not been determined. | ||
| Firstbuell |
not me! MY carry-along foto's of RdP's Aussie GF, Ms. Vickers | ||
| Jaimec |
Simond: Remember in the first year of Moto2, the bikes were all slower than the equivalent Honda supersport bikes with the same engines. In fact, the Moto2 engines were in a milder state of tune. Now, the Moto2 bikes are a hell of a lot faster than the supersports. Engines are probably the LEAST important part of making speed around the track. The WSBK bikes all put out more horsepower than the MotoGP 800s, but the speed differences in the two classes didn't even compare. | ||
| Simond |
Very true but with"production" bikes like the RSV4 the line between superbike and CRT bike could get a little fuzzy. It would be a close run thing between say a 225hp RSV4 and say a 200hp ART CRT bike. | ||
| Trojan |
Matt, you need to find the AMA races on your "telly" The races may be great, but the TV coverage of AMA races is truly awful. We get the Speed coverage here about a week late, but I just can't stand to watch it. It is all shaky cameras, bad editing and very poor commentary unfortunately. Maybe I am spoiled watching Eurosprt and even the BBC, but Speed could take some notes from either of them  without factory bikes, whats the point of motoGP! moto 2 and 3 no one pays attention. when they come to america, people see the motogp race and totally risreguard 2 and 3 MotoGP (500GP) lasted many years without much direct factory support back in the 60's and early 70's, and was arguably a better series for it. Back in 1975 there were grids of 35 riders with bikes that they could buy from their local dealer (mostly Suzuki RG500). The racing was closer and more exciting than it is now. If you are going to have factor bikes then you need a whole grid full, not just 6, because it is the disparity between factory and 'privateer' teams that spoils the spectacle and makes for boring predictable racing. Get rid of the factory teams and make everyone race CRT and the chassis development would leap forward and we would get much better racing. Stoner says he will retire if the factory bikes go. Good. Maybe he thinks he will get beaten if he doesn't have a significant machinery advatange over most of the field? Either way, MotoGP will carry on without him quite happily. Rossi will be a much bigger loss when he retires in terms of specator draw and publicity for MotoGP, and they know it. That is why they need to make the racing more exciting to compensate for the loss of their best ever ambassador. As for your comments on Moto2 and Moto3, that just shows the depth of your ignorance in racing. Moto3 and Moto2 provide much closer racing than MotoGP and will undoubtedly supply the next generation of MotoGP 'Aliens'. Ignore them and you are missing a HUGE part of the MotoGP racing experience and some excellent racing too (certainly far more exciting than what Stoner and co serve up week by week). | ||
| Crusty |
MotoGP (500GP) lasted many years without much direct factory support back in the 60's and early 70's, and was arguably a better series for it. Back in 1975 there were grids of 35 riders with bikes that they could buy from their local dealer (mostly Suzuki RG500). The racing was closer and more exciting than it is now. Do you mean when MV Agusta was the only factory involved and Agostini won damn near every race he entered? Everybody else got to race for second place. Or, since you mention the Suzuki, then wasn't Yamaha a presence at that time? I think the grids were fuller because racing didn't cost so much, and more racers were able to afford machinery. They weren't all fast, though. I remember Roberts and Sheene complaining about how slow the backmarkers were, and how dangerous passing them was. There are no easy solutions. Eliminating the factories will take away much of the appeal of the Moto GP class. | ||
| Jaimec |
As I said earlier: Aprilia has found the "loophole" in the CRT regulations. How long before the other factories figure it out too? | ||
| Trojan |
Do you mean when MV Agusta was the only factory involved and Agostini won damn near every race he entered? Everybody else got to race for second place. Or, since you mention the Suzuki, then wasn't Yamaha a presence at that time? I think the grids were fuller because racing didn't cost so much, and more racers were able to afford machinery. Yes for a while when Honda left MV were left to dominate in certain classes, but this came to an end with the availability of 'customer' 500 2 stokes from Suzuki and Yamaha in addition to some evry quick 'home built' privateers from the like of Kim Newcombes Konig engined beast. However even though Ago cleared off on the MV and in some cases lapped the entire field, theer was still great racing for the rest of the podium and in the 125,250 and 350 classes. In those days GP race bikes were not just affordable but more importantly available to the buying public, so you could buy a RG500, TZ500 or TZ350 from a dealer and race next weekend. Try going to your local dealer to buy an RC213V or M1 and you would get some strange looks! Eliminating the factories will take away much of the appeal of the Moto GP class. That is what they said in the 60's when Honda left, but teh series carried on. The also said pretty much the same when the factories left WSBK but that went from strenght to strengh and is now better racing than MotoGP. I made the same argument as you a few years ago when AMA lost the majority of factories with the DMG takeover. For a while it was a shambles and the racing suffered, but now it seems to have found its level and the racing has improved hugely and everyone seems happier than ever with AMA roadracing. I don't believe that MotoGP would suffer particularly if the factories left or were thrown out. Maybe it would slump for a short while and some riders would leave, until people realise that the bikes are still fast and the racing is closer than ever. Most of the public really couldn't tell the difference between a Superbike and a MotoGP bike, and the ART bike shows that the differences are actually very very small indeed these days in performance terms, so a full grid of CRT bikes would actually be more entertaining than racing currently is. I agree with Jaimec, and would like to see the other factories develop 'customer' CRT bikes that they can sell to teams, rather than leasing satellite bikes at 3 times the cost and in very limited numbers. It could even lead to a resurgence in 'open' class domestic racing once there are a few CRT bikes on the open market | ||
| Gaesati |
How much horsepower is being produced by the current crop of litre bikes in motogp? If WSBK machines are producing substantially more than 200hp how much power must the ducatis be making to be capable of top speeds in the vicinity of 350kmh which I think we will see this year. | ||
| Xb1125r |
no matter what loophole anyone finds, they can't beat the factory. unless the rider on the factory team is really having a bad day. like spies has been this entire season. i bet if crutchlow took that bike he would get a podium | ||
| Simond |
I think top WSB bikes are making 220hp and the MotoGP bikes around 240hp. Sykes hit 339kmh at Monza...but then he can put a new engine in for every race. I'm not hung up about who has the most power, I just question the future of both the WSB and MotoGP series when the bikes are getting so similar - particularly when it is the prototypes rather than the road based bikes that have to build engines that will last! Unless there is more separation between the bikes it'll just be the perceived quality of the riders that will define each Championship. Will someone be building Kalex or Suter road bikes? | ||
| Jaimec |
At this level, it is suspension, tires, brakes and electronics that are more important to lap times than horsepower. The Moto2 bikes are still running lower specs than the supersport bikes that share the same Honda engines, but lap CONSIDERABLY faster. Rossi wants Ducati to DECREASE the top end horsepower and spread it out over the whole rpm range, remember. He had the same request of Yamaha when he switched to that team years ago. Most tracks have over a dozen turns, but only ONE long straight where peak horsepower matters. | ||
| Xb1125r |
no picture on wallet, just my wallpaper | ||
| Simond |
Yes, but there isn't the same level of development in Supersport as there is in WSB. Triumphs are still reasonably competitive! I couldn't agree more about suspension/brakes/electronics but there is no equivalent of the RSV4 in WSS. Personally I would love to see a more level playing field in MotoGP. Do WSB rules prevent the homologation of a "prototype" chassis? | ||
| Jaimec |
Yes. Everything used in WSBK is SUPPOSED to be available to anyone off the street (though Aprilia played it fast and loose with their gear-driven cam system a year or so back). | ||
| Simond |
...and let's not mention those Foggy Petronas bikes! Just for the sake of argument; how many road going R1 powered YZRM1s would Yamaha have to produce for it to be legal in WSB? | ||
| Jaimec |
Simond: Even closer to home was that RIDICULOUS Harley Davidson VR1000 Superbike. 50 models were sold for street use in POLAND in order to meet the homologation rules in AMA Superbike at the time... The answer to your question, by the way, would be 3,000 bikes. WSBK raised the limit a few years ago to stop JUST the kind of "cheating" we're discussing. | ||
| Xb1125r |
Jaimec, Rossi lacks talent. if he was as good as stoner he would stop the excuses and start focusing on him and how he can't adopt to the bike. when a non factory guy is passing you it clearly shows you are done and should retire and stop embarrasing yourself | ||
| Jaimec |
If I ever needed proof you talk out of your *** you've just provided it. I usually only pay attention to those posters who actually KNOW what they're talking about. You may continue to blather incoherently now. | ||
| Davegess |
Rossi lacks talent.  He may be getting old and that will slow him down; heck maybe he is over the hill, but lacking talent no fing way. | ||
| Crusty |
Somebody just completely destroyed his credibility. Xb1125r; either you're talking through your hat, or you haven't been watching Moto GP races for very long. Or both | ||
| Bads1 |
This guy just took the cake.lol | ||
| Firstbuell |
yeah, Xb1125r talks this B.S. with nearly every posting the definitional 'troll' !! | ||
| Trojan |
I think top WSB bikes are making 220hp and the MotoGP bikes around 240hp. Sykes hit 339kmh at Monza...but then he can put a new engine in for every race. I heard a figure of an astounding 280bhp for the Ducati in qualifying trim, which is just ridiculous whichever way you look at it! No wonder the riders are asking for less power and a more useable delivery. Nicky Haydens problems in the last race just showed how far we have gone down the 'electronics rule everything' route, when his ECU picked up the wrong signals from the trackside beacons (designed for lap timers not ECU use of course) and told his bike he was at a completely different part of the track than he actually was! There were two beacons at Estoril, half a lap apart. His ECU decided he was on the 'other' half of the track than he actually was, so calibrated his engine management for the wrong coners! This meant that the ECU controlled how far the throttles opened and when, which was at best laughable and at worst simply dangerous (Rossi had the same problem in practice apparently). Since they banned GPS linked engine management last year most of the factory teams now calibrate and run their electronics from trackside beacons in the same way, so the ECU decides where the bike is on the track and when to fully open the trhottle or not, almost regardless of rider input. It is only a matter of time until interference causes someone to have a huge accident, and then of course they will do something about it! Maybe they really should think of either amalgamating WSB and MotoGP or making the difference between the two much more visible. I heard that WSB bikes were going to run stick on 'headlights' to make them look more like their road cousins, but I think it will take a bit more than that somehow | ||
| Trojan |
Chris Vermeulen to replace Colin Edwards at NGM/Suter/BMW. The term 'scraping the barrel' comes to mind unfortunately  I cannot believe that they couldn't get a current Moto2/WSB rider to sub for Edwards instead of recruiting a rider who hasn't raced for 10 months and spent most of the previous 2 years injured. I know that Leon Haslam was the teams preferred rider but obviously he didn't feel the same way about them (why would he want to wobble around at the back?). However, The team employs Alex DeAngelis in their Moto2 team, and you have to wonder if he was offered the ride and turned it down too? He has more recent MotoGP experience than Vermeulen and is already in the NGM team, so would have been the logical choice surely? It will be interesting to see if CEII comes back from this latest injury or if he just decides it isn't worth getting hurt fighting for 20th place and calls it a day for MotoGP altogether and concentrates on his boot camp enterprise. I can't say I'd blame him if he did. | ||
| Simond |
Did I hear Paul Bird correctly about running Shakey instead of James Ellison in France? I'm not quite sure what the appeal would be for him either. He's presumably not going to risk all on an undeveloped bike when he has a championship to win at home.... even if he does he'll still be running around at the back. | ||
| Trojan |
Did I hear Paul Bird correctly about running Shakey instead of James Ellison in France? I'm not quite sure what the appeal would be for him either. Pual Bird did say that, although Shakey said he knew nothing of it when asked at Oulton last weekend! I would think that Shakey has nothing to gain and everything to lose by riding the bike on a one off basis, but he also said that 'Birdy is the boss, so if thats what he wants, thats what I will do' Can't see him having much more clue over development of the ART than poor old James Ellison though. neither have recent GP experience or have used the Bridgestone tyres, so would be as blind as each other. Birdy needs to get away from his 'all British' team idea and get someone on the bike who has recent GP experience under their belt. Even someone such as Mika Kallio, De Angelis or even Toni Elias would be a safer bet than either of the riders above, but Birdy won't consider anyone else | ||
| Crusty |
I heard that WSB bikes were going to run stick on 'headlights' to make them look more like their road cousins, but I think it will take a bit more than that somehow Holy Shades of NASCAR, Batman! | ||
| Jaimec |
From all I've heard, CEII is excited about the CRT concept, and is more than happy to lend his development skills to making it work. He is also well aware that he won't ever be fighting for a podium as things stand, but the future (as you love to point out) is CRT and he wants to see it succeed. Vermeulen and Haslam were Edwards' suggestions... but Leon doesn't want to risk injury so early in the WSBK season (I can't blame him). And that whole ECU/GPS fiasco just brings back something I'd pointed out years ago: WHY even go down that route? It has no practical purpose outside of the race track! It'll NEVER be used on the street so what's the point?? Why have a rider at all if the computer is going to determine everything about engine delivery, throttle position, etc? Why not just get Google to adapt their "Driverless Car" technology to MotoGP and call it a day?? | ||
| Xb1125r |
so if im talking thru my hat, then Stoner is also. casue he clearly told Rossy, that he is not in Stoners league. Rossi was good, but time has passed as it does with all of us. we hit the hight point in our lives but at soem point we start heading down hill. Rossi is on a straight away and no up hill in sight. |
