| Author | Message | ||
     Fltwistygirl |
About a month ago, on a cool morning, the XT starting missing after fifty miles of highway speeds. The missing started in stop and go traffic and after 3 miles of that, I parked it. When I restarted the bike, it would not even stay idling. We brought it over to bike week where a nice fellow Bueller hooked it up to ECM spy and re-set the AFR. Last week Greg washed the Air intake temperature sensor with dawn detergent after he noticed it looked dirty. Reinstalled it, and the XT ran fine again until last week on the same commute where it missed once on the highway, and once again in traffic. I rode it home that same day, parked it and used the X with its shiny new PR 2's for my commutes to work. We hooked the XT up to ECM spy yesterday and re-set the AFR. We took both Buells out this morning in the 80+ degree heat for about an hour. The XT missed once on the first half hour leg of the trip, but it was almost more like a flat spot on the throttle around 3000 rpm. The trip home was a whole other story: Missing, running like crap, wanting to stall at intersections and smelling a little fuelly. Throughout these events it did not have a CEL even one time so no error codes. Greg is checking the spark plug wires and is currently hooking ECM spy to the X to compare the two bikes data. Thoughts? | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Oh and we put new plugs in it after the first time it started missing. There was nothing out of the ordinary with the condition of the old plugs. Thanks in advance for any feedback. B. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
ECM. It's always the ECM on these bastards. | ||
| Sanchez |
Check your plug wires too. I had one wear through. | ||
| Eulysses |
Bastards. Yeah...I guess they are! Maybe "orphans" is more accurate. | ||
| Etennuly |
It's the beer.....the damn beer is not cold enough I tell ya! Get colder beer! | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Thanks, all. We are lucky that we have the resource of a second almost identical bike to help us in the troubleshooting process. Plug wires are on the list to check. Improperly chilled beer would not be a factor with Greg, he's a bit of a foodie and won't touch a beer if not at optimum temp. Is it possible a faulty O2 sensor is the causing this? | ||
| Thejosh |
Could be a coil going out, when they overheat they'll either produce a weak spark or none at all, don't know why that wouldn't cause the CEL to come on, but I've had that problem on different bikes. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Add the Bank Angle Sensor to the list of things to check. The XT is new enough that it didn't have the originally problematic mounting location, but it could still be causing problems if something else is going on. I have to do dive into my 07 X also. I have an open in the wire bundle (probably around the steering neck) that will keep the starter button from tripping the starter relay at full lock, and additionally my starter solenoid is sticking. And my rear rocker box (that I replaced when I replaced the head due to crash damage) is leaking a little... my fault I'm sure. Fortunately for me, I've been helping a buddy by fixing a bunch of stuff on his 87 Virago 1100. That was so awful, that any wrenching on the Buell will be fun in comparison. (Some folks in 87 REALLY needed to be sent back to the piano factory...) | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Thanks for the ideas. "Fortunately for me, I've been helping a buddy by fixing a bunch of stuff on his 87 Virago 1100. That was so awful, that any wrenching on the Buell will be fun in comparison." No envy for you on that project. Those bikes are notoriously PITAs. So, BAS. Coils. ECM. FYI, we relocated both ECM's last year after our bad, bucking, belching Buell got ill due to a cracked (and replaced under warranty) ECM. That was the X. Bear with me, I am not the primary wrencher, just the umbrella holder, parts cleaner upper, and sometimes beer wench (when the work is done). But I need to know and understand this stuff because when I am working/adventuring up north, it's primarily me dealing with any hiccups. Are there any DO NOT DO THIS things we need to be aware of regarding swapping parts trying to trouble shoot? If anyone thinks of anything else, please post. We'll probably look at it again this weekend. Thanks guys and after my long three wheeled class today, perhaps its time to enjoy one of those frosty beers mentioned above.  B. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
When I got stranded in Missolua I had experienced three straight days of weird running. The bike ran great in the morning and got progressively worse as the day went on (and got hotter). The seat is made of plastic, which gets softer in heat which sags more which then presses down on the ECM. | ||
| Pontlee77 |
BAS i doubt it, why don't you try exchanging the ECM from the X to the XT and see what happens, that would either confirm if it's the ECM or not. you reset the AFR or you mean the TPS? | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
"reset the AFR or you mean the TPS?" Reset the AFR using ECM spy. He did do a TPS reset also. | ||
| Pontlee77 |
AFR or AFV? | ||
| Closetbueller |
Have reset the AFV a few times now, Starts and runs fine at 100, Take bike out and run at a steady 3K rpm to get in "learn" mode. Within a few minutes the bike feels like it has short spurts of power loss or surging at a steady throttle, shortly thereafter it will not stay running at idle, and when I get home and recheck values AFV will have dropped to the 85-90 range. I am going to check plugs/wires first when I get a chance, and have already visually inspected the O2 sensor wire, and it looks to be fine. thanks again for any insight you all may offer | ||
| Uly_man |
Fltwistygirl. This may or may not help. The CEL is not much help as a guide to faults. You have ECM-SPY so check the history for any logged faults. This is the useful part of the deal. A solid or flash of the CEL should show up in the ECM history. This bike will only run right if all the sensors, grounds and wires etc are in perfect condition IE no faults, breaks or resistance problems. If they are right the bike will run perfect, idle right as well and it will have no flat spots either. And in most any heat or weather conditions as well. Or at least mine do. Any one of these problems will cause the bike to run bad. This is because the ECM uses VERY small volts and those volts are the numbers it uses to calculate the amount of fuel needed for air temp, engine temp, engine timing, O2, etc, etc. It could be many things. I get the idea some people "scatter gun" fault finding which can confuse the issue. Use logic and prove parts to narrow down the problem. I had a rear subframe ground fault on the 06 bike and a O2 sensor fault (so HD said) on the 2010 bike and they did not do what yours is doing. Its only a guess but I think you may have a damaged wire some place. I say that because I have had the same sort of thing on other things. Dont take that as a green light though as it could still be something else. Best of luck. | ||
| Firemanjim |
If your AFV is down at 85-90 it means you are seeing a rich condition--only one thing can do that--head temp sensor is telling bike it is cold and applying the "choke". Every other fault on these bikes will cause a lean condition and AFV would skew the other way. In the immortal words of Al Lighton--even if it does not look bad --replace it--IE head temp sensor. | ||
| Uly_man |
This would happen in the same way all of the time if you had any bad sensor. A varied running problem is not the same issue. Or at least I have not found it on any of my EFI system faults with bikes and cars over 30 years. I am sure Al thinks it ok to just change out parts "even if it does not look bad" but then again he is not the one who has to pay for them or are you. Changing out parts without knowing they are at fault is the morons way of trying to fix things. | ||
| Sanchez |
If it won't idle, has no power, and smells like gas, you're probably only running on one cylinder. If you have an IR thermometer, check the headers and see if one of them is significantly colder than the other after it's been running badly for a few minutes. When this happened to my Ulysses, it was a bad spark plug. It surprised me because the plug was fairly new. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
I had similar problems, the dealership ended up replacing the Idle Air Control actuator gaskets/o-rings under warranty to take care of it. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Thanks for the input, all. We are planning for tomorrow to be the trouble shooting day, finally we will have some time to dedicate to it. Hope the weather cooperates and it turns out to be a straightforward fix. Never wanna brag about any motorized vehicles, but the XT has been fairly problem free for the past 30K miles. If anyone thinks of anything else to check, please post up. B. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Update and hoping for a happy ending. We changed the spark plugs from the OEM's (replacements that he put in at Bikeweek) to iridiums. Replaced front plug wire. He did not like the way it felt (did not wanna come off, wanted to separate. Boot wanted to slide up the shaft). He cleaned the IAC. Put it back together, started it up and ran it round the lake a couple times at 3000 rpm. Hooked up ECM spy and all was well. No changes. Fingers crossed. I still would not whine if another triumph happpened to follow me home though  . Thanks all, and will keep ya posted. | ||
| Pontlee77 |
I'm glad it's starting to work good, tons of fun are waiting. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Thanks, Pontlee. This bike has been so much fun, I would have a tough time kicking it to the curb, but would wash my hands of it in a heatbeat if I could no longer trust it for my upcoming 200 mile each way commutes in MN. I am cautiously optimistic at this point and will be using the XT as my primary transportation over the next few days hoping what was done to it takes care of the issue. This problem has tended not to surface in rides less than 1/2 hour long, and it will be Wed or Thurs before I'll really have a chance to flog it for that amount of time. | ||
| Uly_man |
If I was doing those sort of miles I would go for a shaft drive bike with the comfort and build quality to deal with it. Let me put it this way. If you bought an electric drill to do DIY stuff then a $100 DIY grade drill would be ok because you might only use it once a week for an hour. On the other hand if you used a drill, as a Pro, you might use it for 5 hours a day every day. The Pro drill would last longer and give better service but, of course, it will cost more. The miles/work you do on a bike needs a "Pro drill" in the class of a BMW. The XB is a great bike but its a "sports/road" bike and can not deal with the wear of huge miles in the class of something that was designed to deal with it. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
200 mile each way Minnesota? What are you doing, running walleyes between mpls and bemidji? | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
"200 mile each way Minnesota? What are you doing, running walleyes between mpls and bemidji?" Close, Mpls to the Iron Range. I teach and have family in both places so I combine work with family visits and do it on two wheels. Sometimes I work in Duluth, which is only 160 miles each way from Mpls. I've gotten quite creative in finding routes to circumvent the I-35 construction/weekend warrior traffic. Uly man-You may have point with there being better tools for the job than the Uly, but I'm not going to pay more for a bike than I would a car. This will be my third summer with a Uly in MN, and so far, so good. It loves that type of riding, cool, varied road conditions, and it hauls my crap around like a packmule. And although any bike can have issues, I've known too many riders who have struggled with the reliability of beemers. I've known others who have had good luck with them too, just like Buells. I may take a bunch of flack for this, heck, I had "old" men giving me crap for considering a v-strom so I am used to it, but there would be plenty of room for my son on the back. He's a pillion only til he gets his own endorsement, which is sooner than I'd like, but he talks about it more frequently than getting his drivers license. Wonder why? Yep, I rode a wing and I liked it.  | ||
| Skifastbadly |
She works on da range. She rides by da mines. She shops in Duluth. I went to school in St Paul. I have a buddy with a cabin on the Whitefish Chain. Before he bought the cabin, we used to go for a week every summer to Lake Kabetogema. Except for the skeeters, lovely place to spend a summer. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
"She works on da range. She rides by da mines. She shops in Duluth." Yah, you betcha. That pretty much sums it up. Wow, small world! It's a whole lot different there than when I was growing up, but summers up there are still awesome. The riding up there is fantastic, you can go for hours without meeting another vehicle and the north shore of Lake Superior is spectacular. Never a shortage of stuff to see and do, and as our son gets older riding and exploring is still one thing we enjoy doing together. He sees where we grew up through a fresh set of eyes, pretty cool. You are correct, those mosquitoes suck!!! | ||
| Uly_man |
"Uly man-You may have point with there being better tools for the job than the Uly, but I'm not going to pay more for a bike than I would a car. This will be my third summer with a Uly in MN, and so far, so good. It loves that type of riding, cool, varied road conditions, and it hauls my crap around like a packmule. And although any bike can have issues, I've known too many riders who have struggled with the reliability of beemers. I've known others who have had good luck with them too, just like Buells." I agree with you. Been there and done it. I think the build quality of the XB is a good as anything and from what I have seen of modern beemers it might be better. People complain about a bit of surface rust on a XB can but they want to look at some year old beeemers fittings and bolts. I was shocked. Mind you the new BMW cars are not as good as they used to be either. Nothing in the world bugs me more than my bike not running right and the Uly has bugged me more than any bike I have ever had. The problem for me is that nothing else did IT for me. Or at least not for the price. Any bike can be fixed given time/money and somethings are worth it. If you do a lot of miles just look over the bike a little more often and I see no reason why the bike should not last as well as anything else. |
